Olympics: Team Russia 2022

[Atas2000]

Your basic premise is accurate and is an interesting dynamic to watch for this tournament: Canada’s D isn’t the usual 800 pound gorilla on paper, and Russia’s D is the best its iced in a long time. When you factor in the goaltending situation, this will go a long way towards leveling the playing field between the two countries.

However, despite all of that, I still think you are underestimating Canada’s depth of quality D. Orlov would not be in the conversation to make Team Canada at all. Provorov would be “in the mix”, but Canada’s depth at the position is still incredible. There are 12 or 13 guys in the mix around Provorov’s level. They could ice 2 squads worth of players at that caliber. The weakness has never been and will never be depth of #1 caliber defencemen. The weakness is, as you also shrewdly noted, the lack of their usual cohort of a proven ultra-elite top 4. Canada will never have to use a weak defence man at any time, but they usually have at least 2 pairings full of legend-caliber D and they will not have that in this tournament unless younger players like Ekblad, Makar, Chabot etc step up the way Doughty did in 2010 and establish themselves at that level in this tournament. It is possible, but usually Canada has Bonafide established HHOFers at the top end, while the best players on this roster will be challenged to establish themselves at that tier. Interesting dynamic to watch, but Canada’s B Squad of cut players will still be totally full of #1 D men - Orlov would not make it.

You are still overrating Canada. They have the depth, but the reason I think US has a better D in February is because the US actually have those top notch guys, while Canada's 12-13 maybe 20 D men behins a few obvious top players aren't really that great all of a sudden. No question all of them are still Top4 in the NHL, but on NT...

 

[BMann]

The defense group will be more or less stereotypical Russian defensemen. They have good (but not great) offensive skill, but lack the physical qualities to control big forwards around the net and intimidate opposing forwards from threatening the goal! There are no Vasilievvs or Fetisovs or Kasatonovs. Opposing forwards who are big can have their own way in front of the net, and the smaller ones who normally are intimidated away from getting too close to the goal can have a free day! Russia's strategic decision to avoid a heavy physical game puts them at a big disadvantage against teams that will exploit the lack of resistance and hit the Russians, knowing they won't be retaliated against.

I am waiting for someone like Nikishin to keep on developing as he is. He'll provide that sort of physicality.

 

[BMann]

I am not talking about taking him over Zaytsev or Voynov though. There will be 8-9 defencemen on the roster probably. On my depth chart it should be something like:

Provorov
Sergachev
Orlov
Zub
Gavrikov
Voynov
Zaytsev

That's 7 guys I see as locks. Beyond that there is room for mind games. But it's eventually Zadorov for his size and then maybe Kulikov, maybe Lyubushkin. Also how come Lyubushkin is even on a god awful D of a dreadful team? I doubt he manages that if he does what you say he does.

At this moment in time I would rather have Kulikov over Zaitsev.

 

[ViD]

Kuznetsov is playing his best hockey, I don’t care what we need to do or who we need to bribe, but he’s got to be in

 

[Tutu to]

The absurd claims "Canada could ice X competitive teams" are absurd as they are for atrters.

The canadian D will be worse than some previous setups. Some of the praised young stars might become better going forward, but right now they are showing some weknesses and we are talking a tournament in February, not in two years. The old guard is not as shiny as it was in previous years too. The usual suspectl like Doughty or Piatrangelo aren't those undisputed elite defencemen right now.

All that said the way you put it, yes a lot of russian defencemen would make Canada's B-team now. Guys like Provorov or Orlov might make the A-team. As I explained above this is the now situtation and both because Canada's D has declined and Russia's has improved(Orlov for instance made a huge leap from being a solid 2nd pairing guy to being as many Caps fans claimed their best defenceman, also in a Cup winning season. Or look at Zub being at least on par with Chabot this season). And yes, maybe none of them would be a 1st pairing guy on Team Canada, but they would be better than some options Canada will probably accomodate on the olympic roster. But then again you even were going as far as Canada's B-team. The answer to that is yes, easily.

In fact I like the US selection way more right now. Canada will be strong as always, but not as strong on D as it used to be.

Delusional

Orlov wouldn’t even be considered and Provorov would only have had a tiny chance if he came out and had the season of his life which is definitely not the case.

Players I consider better than any Russian D right now:

Pietrangelo
Theodore
Makar
Ekblad
Doughty
Hamilton
Chabot
Pelech
Chychrun
Nurse
Letang
Rielly
Parayko

You can arguably add other players to that list. Guys like Byram,Dumba,Spurgeon and Ellis.

IMO it’s a toss up between the Canadians and the Americans on defence. Well at least on paper.

 

[Atas2000]

Delusional

Orlov wouldn’t even be considered and Provorov would only have had a tiny chance if he came out and had the season of his life which is definitely not the case.

Players I consider better than any Russian D right now:

Pietrangelo
Theodore
Makar
Ekblad
Doughty
Hamilton
Chabot
Pelech
Chychrun
Nurse
Letang
Rielly
Parayko

You can arguably add other players to that list. Guys like Byram,Dumba,Spurgeon and Ellis.

IMO it’s a toss up between the Canadians and the Americans on defence. Well at least on paper.

Theodore? (vastly overrated player in my book. He is not bad or something, but the perception of him being an elite defenceman is just silly)
Pelech?
Chychrun? (The -20 Chychrun?)
Nurse? (Collecting points alongside McDavid playing against weak opposition... All part of the inflated Oilers record and then Oilers still don't have a solid D. He would be a 2nd pairing guy on top defences in the league. A very good one.)
Rielly? (The reason Toronto doesn't have a solid D? Because they still believe Rielly is more than an OD without D.)
Parayko?

No doubt any one of them would make Team Russia. That's not the point, but you obviously overrate those guys by a lot. That's what I wrote. Canadian depth this time around lacks top talent. There are still bunches of players who a tier below though. And in terms of quality and top talent the US have a more solid group of three pairings. Which is more important those guys seem to not slump right now like say Makar who might still become a multiple Norris winner in the future, but this season he seems to have some growing pains.

In a short tournament it might not matter at all though. It will come down to single game performances and how a group gels. All we are doing here is on paper games. On paper I would right now take the US D over the canadian one. On paper Zub is outplaying Chabot right now(and it is a pleasant surprise to me). On paper Canada is in limbo with it's goaltending and Russia has an embarassemnt of riches, but what if Vasilevskiy has a bad night in a do or die game against Canada?

 

[Atas2000]

Kuznetsov is playing his best hockey, I don’t care what we need to do or who we need to bribe, but he’s got to be in

How about we would have punched some sense into him before he decided to do drugs?

 

[Tutu to]

Theodore? (vastly overrated player in my book. He is not bad or something, but the perception of him being an elite defenceman is just silly.)
Pelech?
Chychrun? (The -20 Chychrun?)
Nurse? (Collecting points alongside McDavid playing against weak opposition... All part of the inflated Oilers record and then Oilers still don't have a solid D. He would be a 2nd pairing guy on top defences in the league. A very good one.)
Rielly? (The reason Toronto doesn't have a solid D? Bevcause they still believe Rielly is more than an OD without D.)
Parayko?

No doubt any one of them would make Team Russia. That's not the point, but you obviously overrate those guys by a lot. That's what I wrote. Canadian depth this time around lacks top talent. There are still bunches of players who a tier below though. And in terms of quality and top talent the US have a more solid group of three pairings. Which is more important those guys seem to not slump right now like say Makar who might still become a multiple Norris winner in the future, but this season he seems to have some growing pains.

In a short tournament it might not matter at all though. It will come down to single game performances and how a group gels. All we are doing here is on paper games. On paper I would right now take the US D over the canadian one. On paper Zub is outplaying Chabot right now(and it is a pleasant surprise to me). On papaer Canada is in limbo with it's goaltending and Russia has an embarassemnt of riches, but what if Vasilevskiy has abad night in a do or die game against Canada?

Im not denying that they have flaws but I see them as all top pairing guys on the Russian team.

You’re right though Russia’s clear advantage in goaltending balances things.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Im not denying that they have flaws but I see them as all top pairing guys on the Russian team.

Leave it with him, I’m taking a top 4 of Makar Pietrangelo Theodore and Doughty over anyone else including Sweden and the USA… Russian défense is better than 2016 but still behind the other big countries

 

[slapKing]

Just curious, who's going to be the captain for Russia?

 

[Atas2000]

Just curious, who's going to be the captain for Russia?

I think it's pretty much unanimously Ovechkin.

 

[Atas2000]

Leave it with him, I’m taking a top 4 of Makar Pietrangelo Theodore and Doughty over anyone else including Sweden and the USA… Russian défense is better than 2016 but still behind the other big countries

Certainly not behind ALL the big countries. And Theodore in the Top4 is just proving my point.

 

[Mathieukferland]

Certainly not behind ALL the big countries. And Theodore in the Top4 is just proving my point.

Have you ever watched Las Vegas play? He was the best defenseman in the bubble (him or Hedman) and was top 5 in the league last year; sure his start hasn’t been the greatest but I’m not willing to throw away his last 24 months in which he was a top 5 défense in the league over a 10 game mediocre start


With regards to Romanov you don’t want him anywhere near the Russian team, he’s been atrocious to start with Montréal, loses his men in front of the net, takes bad angles to the puck, and gets caught up ice too often

 

[Atas2000]

Have you ever watched Las Vegas play? He was the best defenseman in the bubble (him or Hedman) and was top 5 in the league last year; sure his start hasn’t been the greatest but I’m not willing to throw away his last 24 months in which he was a top 5 défense in the league over a 10 game mediocre start


With regards to Romanov you don’t want him anywhere near the Russian team, he’s been atrocious to start with Montréal, loses his men in front of the net, takes bad angles to the puck, and gets caught up ice too often

I don't consider Vegas a measuring stick for anything.

If you read my posts you will realise I explicitly stated that Romanov won't make this roster based on his current play.

 

[master4071]

Kuznetsov is not on Russia long list made by ROC, so how can be still eligible to play there?

 

[Zine]

Kuznetsov is not on Russia long list made by ROC, so how can be still eligible to play there?

Because countries are allowed to add/subtract players from their lists.

 

[Tutu to]

Certainly not behind ALL the big countries. And Theodore in the Top4 is just proving my point.

He has his defensive flaws but offensively he is miles ahead of anyone on the Russian team. The fact that he can play with Pietrangelo is a bonus.

As a Habs fan I got to watch him a lot last year in the playoffs and he is significantly better than Sergachev.

 

[ViD]

Namestnikov is quickly gaining momentum to be considered for the OG

 

[Atas2000]

Kuznetsov is not on Russia long list made by ROC, so how can be still eligible to play there?

Actual lists of players must be submitted in January IIRC. Everything published now is just preliminary extended lists that can change a lot.

 

[Atas2000]

Namestnikov is quickly gaining momentum to be considered for the OG

Well, every player with a remote chance realizes their play right now will be key for the selection. It is absolutely expected from them to try hard. Namestnikov sure is making everything he can and I like it. Our lack of centers is glaring.

 

[Atas2000]

He has his defensive flaws but offensively he is miles ahead of anyone on the Russian team. The fact that he can play with Pietrangelo is a bonus.

As a Habs fan I got to watch him a lot last year in the playoffs and he is significantly better than Sergachev.

That is a very tilted opinion in my eyes. We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

[Kshahdoo]

I hope Barabanov will make the team. He's gritty and has some skill as well. Perfect as a 4th line energy player and can kill penalties.

 

[Atas2000]

I hope Barabanov will make the team. He's gritty and has some skill as well. Perfect as a 4th line energy player and can kill penalties.

Over who?

 

[Stewie Griffin]

I hope Barabanov will make the team. He's gritty and has some skill as well. Perfect as a 4th line energy player and can kill penalties.

He's been surprisingly better than expected since coming to San Jose. That said though, I wouldn't expect or want him necessarily on a Russian olympic team if I'm Russia.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Over who?

You say it like we have some great players on the 4th line...