Olympics: Team Russia 2022

[sdf]

If romanov has no iq to play in the nhl at this age, that mean he'll wouldn't has it. And no matter how early he came, the awarness cannot be teached

 

[MaxV]

If romanov has no iq to play in the nhl at this age, that mean he'll wouldn't has it. And no matter how early he came, the awarness cannot be teached

I disagree. Players improve and Ds often take longer to develop.

Romanov has already showed signs of improvement.

Zub, himself, is an example of that. This might just be his 2nd NHL season, but he is already 26 and is playing the best hockey of his career.

Orlov is also an interesting case. He still has a reputation of a talented, mistake-prone D, but he has actually been far steadier and consistent in the last 2 or so years.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

They might not have bottom pairing guys but they also lack a legitimate #1

A lot of middle pairing guys which is fine.

Still think the D is definitely one of the team’s weaknesses.

Provorov might not be a superstar yet, but he is definitely at least a lower-end #1 NHL defenceman. He leads the Flyers in icetime and averages well over 24 minutes per game, he is their #1 defenceman. Not to mention at age 24, he is still improving to boot. He has also been very solid in his NHL playoffs career so far, which is a good litmus test for small ice Olympics. If you disagree that he’s an NHL level #1, go ahead and post 32 NHL defenceman that are better than Provorov, I’ll wait.

As to the “middle pairing guys” comment, the Russian D is not quite on Canada’s level, but they are certainly better than what you say:

Provorov (#1 NHL D level)
Orlov (#2 NHL D level)
Sergachev (#2 NHL D level…sorry Habs fans)
Zub (#2 NHL D level)
Voynov (Formerly #2 NHL D level…haven’t seen him lately)
Gavrikov (#3 NHL D level)
Zaitsev (#5 NHL D level)

Saying Russia has a good number of “average top pairing guys” rather than middle pairing guys, would’ve been more accurate.

I don’t see room for Romanov in that top 6 tbh, unless he really steps it up over the next 3 months of play.

 

[BMann]

Provorov might not be a superstar yet, but he is definitely at least a lower-end #1 NHL defenceman. He leads the Flyers in icetime and averages well over 24 minutes per game, he is their #1 defenceman. Not to mention at age 24, he is still improving to boot. He has also been very solid in his NHL playoffs career so far, which is a good litmus test for small ice Olympics. If you disagree that he’s an NHL level #1, go ahead and post 32 NHL defenceman that are better than Provorov, I’ll wait.

As to the “middle pairing guys” comment, the Russian D is not quite on Canada’s level, but they are certainly better than what you say:

Provorov (#1 NHL D level)
Orlov (#2 NHL D level)
Sergachev (#2 NHL D level…sorry Habs fans)
Zub (#2 NHL D level)
Voynov (Formerly #2 NHL D level…haven’t seen him lately)
Gavrikov (#3 NHL D level)
Zaitsev (#5 NHL D level)

Saying Russia has a good number of “average top pairing guys” rather than middle pairing guys, would’ve been more accurate.

I don’t see room for Romanov in that top 6 tbh, unless he really steps it up over the next 3 months of play.

The closest Zaitsev should come to the Winter Games is watching it back in Ottawa. There is zero chance of him coming to Beijing.

 

[MaxV]

Kulikov is a decent #5 also. Not flashy, but he is positionally responsible D.

 

[Tutu to]

Is that why Bergevin gets slated continually by Canadiens fans then ? Trevor Timmins when he singled out Sergachev said he had all the hallmarks to be a number one defenceman. There are kinks in his game but he still has yet to reach his peak.

He has upside but as of right now I think he’s a little overrated. He Makes a lot of defensive errors whenever I watch him.

I think playing on a team like Tampa masks his deficiencies.

 

[Tutu to]

Middle pairing guys? Here are ice times for the middle pairing guys:

Zub 24:06 (2nd on the team and by a good margin)
Provorov 24:32 (1st)
Gavrikov 21:24 (3d)
Orlov 20:03 (4th but 2nd among D)
Sergachev 22:12 (3rd)
Voynov 22:12 (1st)

Also people forget how good Voynov, two-time Stanley Cup champ, is. When he won his second Cup, he iced 22:18 - second on the team only behind Doughty.

Provy and Voynov will play leadership roles on the D.

While it's true that D is a drop off from the goaltending and wingers (because both are elite), I believe that the term weakness in reference to the D is a misnomer. Center position is, indeed, a weakness for team Russia.

I’m not saying they are bad players but it’s a clear downgrade on D compared to the other top countries minus Finland.

Would any of those guys make a Canadian B-Team?

That being said, the game isn’t played on paper. With good coaching and chemistry I’m sure they can do well.

 

[BMann]

He has upside but as of right now I think he’s a little overrated. He Makes a lot of defensive errors whenever I watch him.

I think playing on a team like Tampa masks his deficiencies.

Playing at Tampa was excellent for his development under the tutelage of Hedman. Sheltered minutes then built up with more time and responsibility. He has made some leaps, stalled, recovered and then gone on again. He's still young as well. Hedman was much like him at the same age. Like a Rolls Royce with the ability to make a howler. Now look at him. Mikhail will be in that same vein.

Compare that to Romanov. I don't know what the Habs coaching staff have done to him at times. There was a reason for the hype. He was an outstanding defenceman and one who moved the puck although perhaps not so great off the blueline to get rockets away although that might be one area he has improved. He cannot get sheltered minutes or develop in a side which is not always being on their heels. Given Alexander#s nature he will get through it and come out a better player.

 

[Tutu to]

Playing at Tampa was excellent for his development under the tutelage of Hedman. Sheltered minutes then built up with more time and responsibility. He has made some leaps, stalled, recovered and then gone on again. He's still young as well. Hedman was much like him at the same age. Like a Rolls Royce with the ability to make a howler. Now look at him. Mikhail will be in that same vein.

Compare that to Romanov. I don't know what the Habs coaching staff have done to him at times. There was a reason for the hype. He was an outstanding defenceman and one who moved the puck although perhaps not so great off the blueline to get rockets away although that might be one area he has improved. He cannot get sheltered minutes or develop in a side which is not always being on their heels. Given Alexander#s nature he will get through it and come out a better player.

Only time will tell. I do see more potential in other young defenseman like Makar,Fox and Heiskanen though.

The Habs suck at developing players but I do think Romanov is limited regardless. Considering the minutes he’s being forced into I don’t think he’s done that bad but then again I haven’t watched every game.

 

[BMann]

Only time will tell. I do see more potential in other young defenseman like Makar,Fox and Heiskanen though.

The Habs suck at developing players but I do think Romanov is limited regardless. Considering the minutes he’s being forced into I don’t think he’s done that bad but then again I haven’t watched every game.

Those three are excellent franchise defencemen. I hope Romanov gets over his difficulties because he has the same innate level of talent as those three although Makar and Fox are a level above. Especially with respect to offensive talent. Ducharme needs to work hard with him and throwing him out in the cold is not going to help. He needs to work and analyze each game and learn. At this moment remain a defensive defenceman gradually working on his shot and cycling the puck, working the boards. He was an outstanding junior with real pedigree. Just needs an arm around him an a keen eye on him.

 

[Atas2000]

Would any of those guys make a Canadian B-Team?

Canadian bias in full flight. What?

 

[Yakushev72]

The defense group will be more or less stereotypical Russian defensemen. They have good (but not great) offensive skill, but lack the physical qualities to control big forwards around the net and intimidate opposing forwards from threatening the goal! There are no Vasilievvs or Fetisovs or Kasatonovs. Opposing forwards who are big can have their own way in front of the net, and the smaller ones who normally are intimidated away from getting too close to the goal can have a free day! Russia's strategic decision to avoid a heavy physical game puts them at a big disadvantage against teams that will exploit the lack of resistance and hit the Russians, knowing they won't be retaliated against.

 

[Tutu to]

Canadian bias in full flight. What?

Can you answer the question?

 

[Firsov99]

I’m not saying they are bad players but it’s a clear downgrade on D compared to the other top countries minus Finland.

Would any of those guys make a Canadian B-Team?

That being said, the game isn’t played on paper. With good coaching and chemistry I’m sure they can do well.

No, they are not bad players. They are good to very good actually, and this is what matters. It's quite an upgrade over the D Russia had in the last best-on-best tournament. Moreover, elite goaltending will make them better.

I don't want to be rude, but I don't care about the Canadian B-team because it won't play in the Olympics. I also don't care about the Canadian C-team.

Yes, the game isn't played on paper. I agree with you about the importance (critical to the success) of coaching and team chemistry.

 

[SoundAndFury]

The defense group will be more or less stereotypical Russian defensemen. They have good (but not great) offensive skill, but lack the physical qualities to control big forwards around the net and intimidate opposing forwards from threatening the goal! There are no Vasilievvs or Fetisovs or Kasatonovs. Opposing forwards who are big can have their own way in front of the net, and the smaller ones who normally are intimidated away from getting too close to the goal can have a free day! Russia's strategic decision to avoid a heavy physical game puts them at a big disadvantage against teams that will exploit the lack of resistance and hit the Russians, knowing they won't be retaliated against.

Get Zadorov on the team then On a more serious note, this is a pretty terrible take. Gavrikov is exactly the type you described as lacking, Provorov and Sergachyov are not far behind. Sergachyov overdoes it for his own good so far this season.

 

[Atas2000]

Can you answer the question?

The absurd claims "Canada could ice X competitive teams" are absurd as they are for atrters.

The canadian D will be worse than some previous setups. Some of the praised young stars might become better going forward, but right now they are showing some weknesses and we are talking a tournament in February, not in two years. The old guard is not as shiny as it was in previous years too. The usual suspectl like Doughty or Piatrangelo aren't those undisputed elite defencemen right now.

All that said the way you put it, yes a lot of russian defencemen would make Canada's B-team now. Guys like Provorov or Orlov might make the A-team. As I explained above this is the now situtation and both because Canada's D has declined and Russia's has improved(Orlov for instance made a huge leap from being a solid 2nd pairing guy to being as many Caps fans claimed their best defenceman, also in a Cup winning season. Or look at Zub being at least on par with Chabot this season). And yes, maybe none of them would be a 1st pairing guy on Team Canada, but they would be better than some options Canada will probably accomodate on the olympic roster. But then again you even were going as far as Canada's B-team. The answer to that is yes, easily.

In fact I like the US selection way more right now. Canada will be strong as always, but not as strong on D as it used to be.

 

[Atas2000]

The defense group will be more or less stereotypical Russian defensemen. They have good (but not great) offensive skill, but lack the physical qualities to control big forwards around the net and intimidate opposing forwards from threatening the goal! There are no Vasilievvs or Fetisovs or Kasatonovs. Opposing forwards who are big can have their own way in front of the net, and the smaller ones who normally are intimidated away from getting too close to the goal can have a free day! Russia's strategic decision to avoid a heavy physical game puts them at a big disadvantage against teams that will exploit the lack of resistance and hit the Russians, knowing they won't be retaliated against.

We can always select a Zadorov for that. And Gavrikov is surely not easy to push around. I am also a strong proponent of looking closely at Lyubushkin. The guy is a most solid DD on the shittiest team around. He is even while Chychrun is -20(!). Yes, we can't have a Fetisov who shuts the door and leads the attack right away. That is also why this roster is not going to be elite of course.

And whiile at it, it's not like we won't have forwards who can intimidate.

 

[olgerd]

Russian media: "The probability of Kuznetsov's participation in the Olympics is 80%".

Vasilevsky (Bobrovsky, Shesterkin)

Provorov-Zub
Orlov-Gavrikov
Sergachev-Voynov
Zaitsev

Panarin-Kuznetsov-Kucherov
Ovechkin-Shipachev-Tarasenko
Kaprizov-Malkin-Svechnikov
Buchnevich-Barbashev-Radulov
Namestnikov

 

[alphahelix]

The absurd claims "Canada could ice X competitive teams" are absurd as they are for atrters.

The canadian D will be worse than some previous setups. Some of the praised young stars might become better going forward, but right now they are showing some weknesses and we are talking a tournament in February, not in two years. The old guard is not as shiny as it was in previous years too. The usual suspectl like Doughty or Piatrangelo aren't those undisputed elite defencemen right now.

All that said the way you put it, yes a lot of russian defencemen would make Canada's B-team now. Guys like Provorov or Orlov might make the A-team. As I explained above this is the now situtation and both because Canada's D has declined and Russia's has improved(Orlov for instance made a huge leap from being a solid 2nd pairing guy to being as many Caps fans claimed their best defenceman, also in a Cup winning season. Or look at Zub being at least on par with Chabot this season). And yes, maybe none of them would be a 1st pairing guy on Team Canada, but they would be better than some options Canada will probably accomodate on the olympic roster. But then again you even were going as far as Canada's B-team. The answer to that is yes, easily.

In fact I like the US selection way more right now. Canada will be strong as always, but not as strong on D as it used to be.

Your basic premise is accurate and is an interesting dynamic to watch for this tournament: Canada’s D isn’t the usual 800 pound gorilla on paper, and Russia’s D is the best its iced in a long time. When you factor in the goaltending situation, this will go a long way towards leveling the playing field between the two countries.

However, despite all of that, I still think you are underestimating Canada’s depth of quality D. Orlov would not be in the conversation to make Team Canada at all. Provorov would be “in the mix”, but Canada’s depth at the position is still incredible. There are 12 or 13 guys in the mix around Provorov’s level. They could ice 2 squads worth of players at that caliber. The weakness has never been and will never be depth of #1 caliber defencemen. The weakness is, as you also shrewdly noted, the lack of their usual cohort of a proven ultra-elite top 4. Canada will never have to use a weak defence man at any time, but they usually have at least 2 pairings full of legend-caliber D and they will not have that in this tournament unless younger players like Ekblad, Makar, Chabot etc step up the way Doughty did in 2010 and establish themselves at that level in this tournament. It is possible, but usually Canada has Bonafide established HHOFers at the top end, while the best players on this roster will be challenged to establish themselves at that tier. Interesting dynamic to watch, but Canada’s B Squad of cut players will still be totally full of #1 D men - Orlov would not make it.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I am also a strong proponent of looking closely at Lyubushkin.

I suggest you do that. The guy is terrible. Losses position all the time and can't make a pass. Taking him over someone like Zaitsev or Voynov is crazy.

 

[MaxV]

I don't know how I feel about Zadorov on this team.

While he does have that physicality that can be useful in this tournament, he also spends a lot of time in the penalty box. This is something that can cost us a key game.

 

[ValeriKamensky]

Among top-6 National Teams Russia has 4th D-group (worse only Czech and Finland) and 6th group of C’s. If they will take bronze, it will be a miracle

 

[Atas2000]

I suggest you do that. The guy is terrible. Losses position all the time and can't make a pass. Taking him over someone like Zaitsev or Voynov is crazy.

I am not talking about taking him over Zaytsev or Voynov though. There will be 8-9 defencemen on the roster probably. On my depth chart it should be something like:

Provorov
Sergachev
Orlov
Zub
Gavrikov
Voynov
Zaytsev

That's 7 guys I see as locks. Beyond that there is room for mind games. But it's eventually Zadorov for his size and then maybe Kulikov, maybe Lyubushkin. Also how come Lyubushkin is even on a god awful D of a dreadful team? I doubt he manages that if he does what you say he does.

 

[Atas2000]

I don't know how I feel about Zadorov on this team.

While he does have that physicality that can be useful in this tournament, he also spends a lot of time in the penalty box. This is something that can cost us a key game.

That's the point. He has a brain of a small bird. You can put him out there as a big body, but always risking he'd do something stupid.

 

[olgerd]

Among top-6 National Teams Russia has 4th D-group (worse only Czech and Finland) and 6th group of C’s. If they will take bronze, it will be a miracle

Why didn't you mention that Russia has the best W along with Canada, as well as the best G line?