Olympics: Team Finland 2022

[SoundAndFury]

Has Manninen been a downgrade? 3 highest scoring players for Ufa last year and Granlund&Manninen are highest scoring players for Ufa right now. I don't watch KHL but it seems to me, it's a top-3 line in KHL. No point to break that line, especially how they dominated in Channel one cup.

Aaltonen - Ojamäki are basically responsible for every goal Vityaz scores. Im guessing Audette is the third link in that line, since the highest scoring russian is Malykhin, 41 games and 16 points..... Again no point to break that duo either. As for "KHL failure" Pesonen is scoring point per game in NLA. Pesonen has played total 45 national team game and has scored 28 points, 4+3 in 10 games in 2019 WHC tournament. 1+2 in Karjala cup this year, and his style of game fits perfectly next to Aaltonen - Ojamäki. No room for Kemppainen either.

And im sure you not suggesting that Kemppainen should be selected over Filppula? Filppula mopped the floor with Kemppainen in Karjala cup. And not to mention Filppula played in NHL last year, over 1000 games in NHL and 3 times in Stanley Cup finals. Filppula's experience, leardeship and all-around game is just too good to pass.

Björninen is a best shut down line center line in Europe, if i were GM in the NHL i would offer him a deal. Perennial grinders Savinainen and Pakarinen are players whom Jalonen trust, and they know what Jalonen wants to see from them.

Kemppainen has a chance to get in as a extra center, unless one of the top-4 centers decline. But i would still give the edge to Ruohomaa, he played in Riga and he has played more games under Jalonen than Kemppainen. Channel one cup was the first time since 2012 when Kemppainen played under Jalonen. Jalonen loves EHT games, it has significant effect in his book.

No, Manninen hasn't really been the downgrade, they are just very different players. But my point was that line, albeit with Omark at the time, had the same status Granlund-Manninen-Harti has now. If Kemppainen was more exposed to the media hype the way Ufa's trio is he would be a lock for this team. People's perception of him as a player changed purely due to him having a different role on a different team. Even in the last Olympics he was one of Finland's key players and isn't really showing any signs of immediate decline.

I'm not saying any of your or File's points are necessarily wrong, Finland is the only nation that has definite proof this kind of "suboptimal" (let's face it, scoring points on garbage teams like Vityaz or Langnau is a pretty flimsy argument) team works, but what I am saying is that if you can't find Kemppainen place on the team you are probably severely underrating him.

 

[karhukissa]

The primary criteria for selection for the players in Europe is not their KHL (or any other league) record - it's their national team record. Most players in this lineup have proven their mettle in the EHT, WCs, and other NT events over the last few years. And as long as they keep doing good in the NT, the coach keeps picking them over guys with more impressive club team records - unless their overall records start indicating that they've completely fallen off the cliff.

And you might say it's a method that works, considering that Finland is arguably one of the biggest overachievers in hockey, constantly competing for medals with rosters that should have no business competing.

Honestly, whatever Jalonen chooses i'm okay with. He's a certified goldfinger and the best coach in the Europe. And it all comes down to his player selections and team spirit. That's already been proven god knows how many times.

He'll pick the right players for his system and also suitable charachters. Also, something that not everyone understands when they watch some certain players currently in their respective teams. These guys are different animals when they put that finnish jersey on. They have certain roles which they are selected for and will most probably fill that role well. Komarov as an prime example.

 

[FiLe]

No, Manninen hasn't really been the downgrade, they are just very different players. But my point was that line, albeit with Omark at the time, had the same status Granlund-Manninen-Harti has now. If Kemppainen was more exposed to the media hype the way Ufa's trio is he would be a lock for this team.

This isn't true - not because Kemppainen is a bad player, but because we have even better centers in Europe than him. Kemppainen obviously isn't ousting Manninen from the Ufa trio. He isn't ousting Aaltonen, who isn't only putting up points in Vityaz, but just posted a 1+4 record in the last Karjala Cup, very much proving that he can transfer his club team points into the NT environment - and who's coming as a package deal with Ojamäki. Kemppainen isn't ousting the 1000+ game NHL veteran Filppula. And he isn't ousting Björninen, who is one of the best two-way centers in Europe and thus the ideal choice for a more defensive-minded fourth line.

So, Kemppainen can still make this team - but he'd be an extra forward by default. And when extra forwards are being picked, there are tons of intangibles the coach may ponder that might make another player preferable over him.

 

[SoundAndFury]

This isn't true - not because Kemppainen is a bad player, but because we have even better centers in Europe than him.

I feel this is such a redundant argument. Like positions truly matter that much. Manninen and Filppula spent half of their careers playing wing, Aaltonen mostly played RW for SKA, didn't Kemppainen play primarily on the wing for Boston? Et cetera.

 

[FiLe]

I feel this is such a redundant argument. Like positions truly matter that much. Manninen and Filppula spent half of their careers playing wing, Aaltonen mostly played RW for SKA, didn't Kemppainen play primarily on the wing for Boston? Et cetera.

How much the position matters depends on the player. For some, it matters very much - heck, there are even some natural wings who feel lost if you place them on their off wing. (Such as Teemu Selänne, perhaps the most celebrated Finnish player of all time, who was totally lost if not specifically playing as RW.) I can't recall if Kemppainen was slotted on wing for some part of his NHL career - that lasted for glorious 44 games - but I'm fairly certain he's been a center almost exclusively while playing in Europe.

Does this mean he's not one of those individuals who could easily move from one forward position to another? Not necessarily. But we can't tell unless we get a decent sample of him playing wing and being good at it. (Which we do have in the case of players such as Manninen, Aaltonen and Filppula.) And here's the rub: the olympics are not the place to start gathering that sample.

 

[SoundAndFury]

And here's the rub: the olympics are not the place to start gathering that sample.

So Canadians with their usual 10 centers on the best-on-best roster are doing it wrong? In actuality, it's very rare for a center to have any issues playing wing.

 

[FiLe]

So Canadians with their usual 10 centers on the best-on-best roster are doing it wrong? In actuality, it's very rare for a center to have any issues playing wing.

They're not doing it wrong if they know already that those centers can play wing. Which is something I already explained to you, I think. Alternately, they figure those players are cerebral enough to transition to the position easily. Which is a big reason for why they're the top players in the top league of the world.

In actuality, the world is full of hockey forwards - including natural centers - who begin struggling in their off position, and the odds of running into them increases greatly when we go outside the seven-figure salary realm. And I'm not saying this based on a mere gut feeling.

 

[SantosHalper]

Even in the last Olympics he was one of Finland's key players

Kemppainen was one of the better players in the horrible Marjamäki-era.

if you can't find Kemppainen place on the team you are probably severely underrating him.

Nobody is underrating him, there's just better(Manninen, Aaltonen,Filppula) and more suitable(Björninen) centers ahead of him in the depth chart. If somebody declines, then Kemppainen is in. But if not, then he still has a chance to make it as a extra player.

Filppula spent half of their careers playing wing, Aaltonen mostly played RW for SKA

That's not true, i've seen Filppula play for 20 years and he has spent like 90% of his career as a center. He won the Stanley Cup as a center, but he did scored his career high points(66) as a winger. But moving Filppula to the wing is not an option, we need Rajala/Innala to score goals. We need their offense, we need the secondary scoring to win this tournament.

If Aaltonen played as a winger in SKA and failed, but then thrives as a center in Vityaz and in national team, then SKA's coaching staff he didn't know how to use him. EP player profile says "Aaltonen can play as a center or in the left wing.". So they didn't play him as a center and then they play him on his off wing, SKA's coaches obviously didn't know what they were doing. Aaltonen was highest scoring finn in KHL in 2016-17, 3rd highest scoring in 2018-19 and currently he's 2nd highest scoring finn in KHL.

 

[FiLe]

That's not true, i've seen Filppula play for 20 years and he has spent like 90% of his career as a center.

Nothing you say is factually incorrect, but it should probably be pointed out that Filppula's spent the majority of his NT career on wing. This is mostly because he's played for some very successful NHL teams, so he's mostly been available for best-on-bests, and we've had pretty darn good center depth in those with players such as the Koivu brothers, O.Jokinen, N.Kapanen, etc, who have taken preference over him. And when he was in the WHC roster in 2012, that squad also featured M.Koivu, Kapanen, Immonen and Kontiola. In his last WHC appearance in 2017 he did play center, though. And he will play center in these olympics, as he's the superior center when compared to the names available today.

 

[Mestaruus]

My roster prediction. Team is going to be revealed on thursday, and they gonna show it in on tv. TV5 is the channel, 19:00 is the time.

Sounds like that will be worth watching. Ty for sharing that. I didn't know.

Pesonen, Vatanen and Pokka has expressed conserns over the possible quarantine time in China. If they decline then im sure that Kemiläinen and Sund are in, Ohtamaa moves to right side. Mäenalanen or Ruohomaa replaces Pesonen, or if Jalonen wants to replace Pesonen with similar player then he picks Tyrväinen. Tyrväinen was selected to play in Channel One cup, but he got flu.

Hopefully Vatanen didn't decline. That would suck big time.

 

[FiLe]

Hopefully Vatanen didn't decline. That would suck big time.

Players were concerned that they'll be forced to sit in some hotel room in China for many weeks if they test positive or even if they are deemed as exposed, but as has been cleared many times in the last few weeks, that's not the case. I suppose it's always possible that some individual player is extra jumpy, but for example the Swiss team got all their best players in the NLA on board, so figuring that there's some widespread concern is overblown.

 

[Elias40]

Is this tournament in China and then the home tournament in May expected to be the last two Suomi tournaments for Antilles? Or will Jalonen leave that decision to Antilles, and if he is healthy and fit, he will nominate him for years to come?

I think that for players from Europe, selecting players for the Jalonen nomination is an excellent strategy. Betting on cooperation from the club, as a third player to add to them someone who has played well with them in the past for NT is something that solves the problems of many coaches but they do not think this way. And it is also right not to select players according to the number of points per match, this is a club affair. There isn't much time to try a new line-up at the Olympics or the World Cup, so if Jalonen has tried anything, he would be up against himself if he wanted to change that.

Finland is such an interesting country .. Finns are said to start talking after a bottle of vodka, if they are sober they don't talk, they will do their job and go home. But in hockey, I've heard Jalon and some other hockey people say that a lot of communication is the basis of Finland's success in recent years.

 

[Marioesque]

Is this tournament in China and then the home tournament in May expected to be the last two Suomi tournaments for Antilles? Or will Jalonen leave that decision to Antilles, and if he is healthy and fit, he will nominate him for years to come?

I think that for players from Europe, selecting players for the Jalonen nomination is an excellent strategy. Betting on cooperation from the club, as a third player to add to them someone who has played well with them in the past for NT is something that solves the problems of many coaches but they do not think this way. And it is also right not to select players according to the number of points per match, this is a club affair. There isn't much time to try a new line-up at the Olympics or the World Cup, so if Jalonen has tried anything, he would be up against himself if he wanted to change that.

Finland is such an interesting country .. Finns are said to start talking after a bottle of vodka, if they are sober they don't talk, they will do their job and go home. But in hockey, I've heard Jalon and some other hockey people say that a lot of communication is the basis of Finland's success in recent years.

They now start meetings with everyone drinking a bottle of vodka first and then they can go over tactics really well. They literally fall into trophies.

 

[FiLe]

Official roster:

Goalies
Jussi Olkinuora, Metallurg Magnitogorsk
Harri Säteri, Sibir Novosibirsk
Frans Tuohimaa, Neftekhimik Nizhnekamsk

Defensemen
Niklas Friman, Jokerit
Juuso Hietanen, HC Ambri-Biotta
Valtteri Kemiläinen, Vityaz Podolsk
Mikko Lehtonen, SKA St. Petersburg
Petteri Lindbohm, Jokerit
Atte Ohtamaa, Kärpät
Ville Pokka, Avangard Omsk
Sami Vatanen, HC Geneve-Servette

Forwards
Miro Aaltonen, Vityaz Podolsk
Marko Anttila, Jokerit
Hannes Björninen, Jokerit
Valtteri Filppula, HC Geneve-Servette
Markus Granlund, Salavat Yulaev Ufa
Teemu Hartikainen, Salavat Yulaev Ufa
Joonas Kemppainen, SKA St. Petersburg
Leo Komarov, SKA St. Petersburg
Sakari Manninen, Salavat Yulaev Ufa
Saku Mäenalanen, Kärpät
Niko Ojamäki, Vityaz Podolsk
Iiro Pakarinen, Jokerit
Harri Pesonen, SCL Tigers
Toni Rajala, EHC Biel-Bienne

 

[JabbaJabba]

No real surprises there. Maybe Tuohimaa, though he likely won't play any games.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Friman was cut last WC, has he gotten better?

Hietanen has not played for Finland in a big tourney since 2018.

I feel sorry for Tyräväninen. Komarov coming home and took his spot.

 

[FiLe]

Literally zero surprises with forwards, Friman a bit of left field pick in defense, Tuohimaa would have been one (even though he's the obvious third string) if the goalies hadn't been spoiled beforehand.

 

[Keduzin]

What a great lineup ! Better than the ones we have had in he last 2 world championships. Finland and Russia seems to be the biggest favorites for gold, Sweden and Czech not far behind.

 

[Mestaruus]

No Kaski is the biggest surprise, but what Grönman said about it on studio is probably correct. If Jukka Jalonen runs his PP units with 4 forwards each. Those PP spots will go to Vatanen and Lehtonen.

 

[FiLe]

No Kaski is probably the biggest surprise, but what Grönman said about it on studio is probably correct. If Jukka Jalonen runs his PP units with 4 forwards each. Those PP spots will go to Vatanen and Lehtonen.

We had a fair pick of righty puckmovers to pick from - Vatanen was the obvious one, but Kemiläinen and Hietanen took preference for Kaski this time.

 

[David OSullivan]

Only real concern - is this group experienced enough?

 

[Marioesque]

Only real concern - is this group experienced enough?

Yeah

Looks like a lot of world champions and NHL vets to me.

 

[MoeTheHobo]

We have won gold with worse rosters than this.

 

[Mestaruus]

Official roster:

Goalies
Jussi Olkinuora, Metallurg Magnitogorsk
Harri Säteri, Sibir Novosibirsk
Frans Tuohimaa, Neftekhimik Nizhnekamsk

Defensemen
Niklas Friman, Jokerit
Juuso Hietanen, HC Ambri-Biotta
Valtteri Kemiläinen, Vityaz Podolsk
Mikko Lehtonen, SKA St. Petersburg
Petteri Lindbohm, Jokerit
Atte Ohtamaa, Kärpät
Ville Pokka, Avangard Omsk
Sami Vatanen, HC Geneve-Servette

Forwards
Miro Aaltonen, Vityaz Podolsk
Marko Anttila, Jokerit
Hannes Björninen, Jokerit
Valtteri Filppula, HC Geneve-Servette
Markus Granlund, Salavat Yulaev Ufa
Teemu Hartikainen, Salavat Yulaev Ufa
Joonas Kemppainen, SKA St. Petersburg
Leo Komarov, SKA St. Petersburg
Sakari Manninen, Salavat Yulaev Ufa
Saku Mäenalanen, Kärpät
Niko Ojamäki, Vityaz Podolsk
Iiro Pakarinen, Jokerit
Harri Pesonen, SCL Tigers
Toni Rajala, EHC Biel-Bienne

25 players selected.

18 - KHL players.
5 - NLA/Swiss league players.
2 - Liiga/SM-Liiga players.

Zero from Swedish league. Interesting.

 

[MoeTheHobo]

Only missing Lasse "Kuka" Kukkonen