Olympics: Team Finland 2022

[Stubu]

This is stronger roster than the golden one from 2019.

We'll never stop having a golden one from 2019 or 1842 or what have you.

(But guys let's not tell the mods how to spell Champaigne or they notice.)

Um, to be frank, I really like the roster. What comes out of it remains to be seen, as always, but it looks now like good games.

 

[Mestaruus]

We'll never stop having a golden one from 2019 or 1842 or what have you.

(But guys let's not tell the mods how to spell Champaigne or they notice.)

Um, to be frank, I really like the roster. What comes out of it remains to be seen, as always, but it looks now like good games.

Having Jalonen as the head coach certainly increases the odds for things to go well.

 

[Svedu]

He hasn't really been good the past 2 seasons..

I understand, his stats are really horrible as well. Your right buddy.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I understand, his stats are really horrible as well. Your right buddy.

I don't know why you ask the question if you don't like the answer. He has not been good, especially compared to his peak seasons. Last year his stats were bad as well, this year they are fine but he has not been great regardless. Maybe there are some deeper, personal issues with his non-invites but I don't think he would have a shot to be #1 on this team in any case.

 

[Svedu]

I don't know why you ask the question if you don't like the answer. He has not been good, especially compared to his peak seasons. Last year his stats were bad as well, this year they are fine but he has not been great regardless. Maybe there are some deeper, personal issues with his non-invites but I don't think he would have a shot to be #1 on this team in any case.

I don't have anything against your opinion. But to refer to his statistics and claim that he's not been that good seems a bit untrue. 91,5 last year, 93,5 this year and two years ago he had 93 % as well. So for the last three years that´s what? 92,75 %? That´s actually quite good.

Regarding other better options as the first goalie is another topic and irrelevant because I´ve never written or claimed anything about him being the first goalie.

 

[SoundAndFury]

I don't have anything against your opinion. But to refer to his statistics and claim that he's not been that good seems a bit untrue. 91,5 last year, 93,5 this year and two years ago he had 93 % as well. So for the last three years that´s what? 92,75 %? That´s actually quite good.

91,5 Sv% on high-end KHL team is really bad, no two ways about it. And his stats this year reflect why - even fairly mediocre goaltending get you good numbers. That's why save percentages in the KHL are pretty useless unless it's a direct comparison between teammates and such.

 

[Svedu]

91,5 Sv% on high-end KHL team is really bad, no two ways about it. And his stats this year reflect why - even fairly mediocre goaltending get you good numbers. That's why save percentages in the KHL are pretty useless unless it's a direct comparison between teammates and such.

Is Olkinuora a mediocre goaltender in your opinion as well? Because his stats is clearly worse and he plays for the best team in his conference?

 

[SoundAndFury]

Because his stats is clearly worse and he plays for the best team in his conference?

I though the whole point of my post was that KHL goalie stats are irrelevant Teams play a certain way. Some teams can make Vitali Kolesnik have .946 Sv%, some can bring Bobrovsky or Sorokin to below .92.

There is some of it in the NHL as well (Frederik Andersen didn't turn from garbage goalie into Vezina winner over the summer) but to a way lesser degree. When it comes to the KHL goalies eye-test still works best, sadly.

 

[Svedu]

I though the whole point of my post was that KHL goalie stats are irrelevant

Oh excuse me, now I get it. Stats never matter what so ever and being a goalie in the KHL is impossible to judge? So the only option there is to know if a goalie is good or not is to see him in a game outside the KHL? Got ya. Very clever.

How should people judge Askarov because he's hella hyped but he's only had 9 good games last season with SKA. Where does the hype come from? He has been somewhat horrendous in some games at the WJC´s these last years and his stats aren't that impressive either.
I mean the only thing I can write that I´ve seen him at the WJC´s and one U-17 tournament. Even if he was good at u17 level (like Vehviläinen) I don't think he has been anything to hype up, quite the opposite. Since you have your opinions and thoughts regarding the KHL and goalies, how should we judge Askarov? What is your opinion about him?

 

[SoundAndFury]

Oh, excuse me now I get it. Stats never matter what so ever and being a goalie in the KHL is impossible to judge? So the only option there is to know if a goalie is good or not is to see him in a game outside the KHL? Got ya. Very clever.

I expanded my previous post. I frankly don't understand why do you need to be so overbearingly pompous about your ignorance.

Man, seeing players play is good for their evaluation. Yes, very clever. Groundbreaking.

 

[Svedu]

I expanded my previous post. I frankly don't understand why do you need to be so overbearingly pompous about your ignorance.

Man, seeing players play is good for their evaluation. Yes, very clever. Groundbreaking.

You are really smart. I had some questions regarding Metsola and I actually thought Filé answered them pretty well. You on the other hand? Let's say you didn't convince me, nor did you add anything of value after his answers? But you still felt the need to downgrade Metsola and you still wrote about his stats, like they would be relevant? And then you just somehow changed your mind. Okay, very consistent of you.

 

[SoundAndFury]

But you still felt the need to downgrade Metsola and you still wrote about his stats, like they would be relevant? And then you just somehow changed your mind. Okay, very consistent of you.

Metsola is one of my favorite KHL goalies going back to his Amur days. You can find plenty of evidence in my posts on the KHL board. He has not been very good the last couple of years. You were the one who started dragging his stats into the discussion, don't start pinning this on me now. All I did is point out that his stats have been up and down as well during a few recent seasons. No idea where the hell have I changed my mind in the process.

"Downgrade Metsola"? What? Could you be more dramatic? If anything during our conversations about both Metsola and Miro you only seem to ask the question so you can hear the answer you want.

 

[Svedu]

Metsola is one of my favorite KHL goalies going back to his Amur days. You can find plenty of evidence in my posts on the KHL board. He has not been very good the last couple of years. You were the one who started dragging his stats into the discussion, don't start pinning this on me now. All I did is point out that his stats have been up and down as well during a few recent seasons. No idea where the hell have I changed my mind in the process.

"Downgrade Metsola"? What? Could you be more dramatic? If anything during our conversations about both Metsola and Miro you only seem to ask the question so you can hear the answer you want.

You wrote about his statistics last year, and that they weren't that impressive? I think it's pretty valid to get the impression that you were trying to make a point out of that?

I don´t feel that the word downgrade is that dramatic or sensational? Not that dramatic at all for me at least. But I do believe that your opinions should be taken with a grain of salt when a goalie has a 93,5 saving percentage and has a long history of being a leading goalie in the KHL.
What is your point? Should I just listen and blindly believe in your opinions and consider them like they were the only truth?
Regarding irrelevant comments? You wrote something about Metsola not being good enough to be the first goalie. Never had I claimed such a thing. Or someone else for that matter. I just want to inform you that a roster has three goalies, not one.

 

[SoundAndFury]

You wrote about his statistics last year, and that they weren't that impressive? I think it's pretty valid to get the impression that you were trying to make a point out of that?

I didn't try to make my point, it reinforced my point. Since it ranked him 29th in the KHL amongst the goalies with 10+ starts. Your "has a long history of being a leading goalie in the KHL" take, on the other hand, is based on selective facts and your insistence on your opinion being right. You shouldn't blindly believe, you just shouldn't be blind period.

If you believe Metsola should be on this team on merit - that's fair. But the "leading goalie in the KHL" take is nothing more than a myth at this point.

 

[Svedu]

I didn't try to make my point, it reinforced my point. Since it ranked him 29th in the KHL amongst the goalies with 10+ starts. Your "has a long history of being a leading goalie in the KHL" take, on the other hand, is based on selective facts and your insistence on your opinion being right. You shouldn't blindly believe, you just shouldn't be blind period.

If you believe Metsola should be on this team on merit - that's fair. But the "leading goalie in the KHL" take is nothing more than a myth at this point.

Leading, one of the leading goalies in the league. Not necessarily the best. Team merits? Have I said that he should be in the final roster for Team Finland? I asked if he should be considered and if- if not, why. I got better answers from someone else. What's the matter, did I hurt you?
I haven't claimed I´m right in any aspect. It all started with a question from my side. If someone asks a question they are usually humble and interested in getting knowledge they don't possess, or another opinion etc. The thing here seems more like you got a bit mad because I thought and still think your answers are a bit questionable. That doesn't have to mean I know more than you, but that doesn't exclude the possibility of me rejecting or being skeptical to your opinions if I believe they are thin. That´s all.

An example? If Putin claims something, should I blindly believe him and always think that he is telling me or us the truth and nothing but the truth? Especially if I'm not certain or lack knowledge about something, should I just take his word for granted without questioning anything?

Have a nice evening.

 

[SantosHalper]

Lehtonen is healthy again, Jalonen could get all of his favourites in.

Lehtonen - Ohtamaa
Lindbohm - Vatanen
Sund - Kaski
Koivisto - Pokka

 

[Eye of Ra]

Lepistö - Honka is a great pairing in SHL. Luleå is the best team in SHL so far togheter with Rögle. Not by chance with those 2 finns dominating in the backend. Could be a option for this team.

I also wonder why Virtanen is always ignored. One of the best offensive dman in SHL year after year.

 

[SantosHalper]

Lepistö - Honka is a great pairing in SHL. Luleå is the best team in SHL so far togheter with Rögle. Not by chance with those 2 finns dominating in the backend. Could be a option for this team.

Jalonen loves EHT games and last 2 WHC teams has been build around players whom played EHT games during the season, very few players has been chosen outside of that group. Lepistö played last time in national team in 2018 Olympics, but has played under Jalonen before in 2010 Olympics and 2011 & 2013 WHC tournaments and 1 season in KHL-Jokerit. And in 2008 WHC tournament, when Jalonen was a assistant coach.

Honka played 1 game in the Channel One Cup and 3 EHT games in 2019-20 season. Honka is not that high in the depth chart. Vatanen, Kaski, Pokka and Kemiläinen is the group A. Group B is Rindell, Saarijärvi, Hietanen, Honka, Eronen, Vainio imo. It's shame that the WJC got cancelled, if Niemelä would have dominated the tournament maybe he could have stolen a spot in the Olympic team like Heiskanen back in 2018.

Therefore i don't see either of them being in the team without massive wave of declines. Jalonen most likely picks a LHD to play on the right side instead of Honka. LHD depth chart is deep.

I also wonder why Virtanen is always ignored. One of the best offensive dman in SHL year after year.

I don't have an answer to this question. Virtanen played 5 EHT games back in 2018-19 and 0 games in national team after that. Maybe he doesn't just fit in "our game"-plan or Virtanen got butthurted because Jalonen didn't pick him to play in 2019 WHC tournament, and maybe Virtanen has declined to national team invitations after that.

Virtanen has played 24 national games and has scored 3 goals and 2 assist, not very good for offensive d-man. But he's not the 1st player who has thrived in his club team, but then can't get anything done in the national team. Ville Vahalahti, JP Haataja, Petri Varis, Pasi Saarela, Toni Koivisto, Kimmo Kuhta, Marko Jantunen, Marko Tuulola, Arto Laatikainen, Ilkka Mikkola, Mikko Kousa, Ilkka Heikkinen, Tuomas Tarkki etc..

 

[Mestaruus]

Ismo Lehkonen's lines with non-NHL players:

Hartikainen-Manninen-Markus Granlund
Innala-Miro Aaltonen-Pakarinen
Rajala-Kemppainen-Ojamäki
Harri Pesonen-Björninen-Komarov

Lehtonen-Hietanen
Ohtamaa-Vatanen
Lindbohm-Kaski
Otto Leskinen-Pokka

Goalies:
#1 Olkinuora
#2 Säteri
#3 Metsola

As YLE's article below states, he wouldn't select Filppula. Quite interesting.

Jättäisitkö sinä Valtteri Filppulan ulos olympialaisista? Tässä ovat Ismo Lehkosen valinnat Pekingiin – "Suomella on kaikkia maita vastaan yliote"

 

[SantosHalper]

Ismo Lehkonen's lines with non-NHL players:

Hartikainen-Manninen-Markus Granlund
Innala-Miro Aaltonen-Pakarinen
Rajala-Kemppainen-Ojamäki
Harri Pesonen-Björninen-Komarov

Lehtonen-Hietanen
Ohtamaa-Vatanen
Lindbohm-Kaski
Otto Leskinen-Pokka

Goalies:
#1 Olkinuora
#2 Säteri
#3 Metsola

As YLE's article below states, he wouldn't select Filppula. Quite interesting.

Jättäisitkö sinä Valtteri Filppulan ulos olympialaisista? Tässä ovat Ismo Lehkosen valinnat Pekingiin – "Suomella on kaikkia maita vastaan yliote"

Quite weird lineup by Ika. Kemppainen over Filppula? Did anyone even see Kemppainen on the ice in Channel one cup? And Filppula played like a leader in Karjala cup. Metsola haven't played in national team in 4 years, he's is not going to take a 3rd goalie role. Better yet, i don't even see Jalonen asking him. And Leskinen over Sund? Aaltonen and Ojamäki in separate lines, no wonder he hasn't got a coaching job in years.

In the interview Ika says that he went with the younger players. And that all the centers are taking steps forward in their careers, Kemppainen turns 34 this year.... And all the centers are strong in faceoff circle and they play strong two-way game and that they are PK-specialist's. Granted Filppula is not a spring chicken anymore, but plays exactly like Ika would want this team's centers to play. And then Ika picks Hietanen(36) over Kemiläinen(30) or Saarijärvi(24). Hietanen has a strong chance to be in the team, but Ika's comments and his lineups doesn't make any sense.

Anttila is out, i do agree with that part. Filppula over Kemppainen and Sund over Leskinen, Heljanko as a 3rd goalie. Aaltonen and Ojamäki in the same line. Ika forgot to pick extra forwards. Savinainen, Mäenalanen, Ruohomaa, Karjalainen i believe are the strongest candidates.

 

[Sanf]

It´s somewhat hard to get excited about the roster speculation now. Even though I believe it will be (if played) an interesting tournament.

Wonder how much seperation will we see between the two teams this year. It´s farily possible that Jalonen will try to (or is forced) build two even teams for the Olympics and the possible home WHC. Under the circumstances its hard to see players being interest to be in both tournaments.

 

[Sanf]

Anttila is out, i do agree with that part. Filppula over Kemppainen and Sund over Leskinen, Heljanko as a 3rd goalie. Aaltonen and Ojamäki in the same line. Ika forgot to pick extra forwards. Savinainen, Mäenalanen, Ruohomaa, Karjalainen i believe are the strongest candidates.

I can agree with all of this. Anttila may captain the team in home WHC, but I can´t see him being in the olympics. Considering the history I doubt that Metsola will be slightliest interest of being third goalie. If he participates he will be atleast backup in either tournament. (And I tend to believe SoundAndFurys estimation about Metsola´s current play because I don´t really watch KHL) As third goalie Heljanko is a very good bet considering his selection to EHT and fairly strong showings in Liiga.

 

[Eye of Ra]

imo

Hartikainen-Manninen-Granlund
Innala-Aaltonen-Ojamäki
H.Pesonen-Filppula-Rajala
Komarov-Björninen-Antilla
J.Tyrväinen, Maenalanen

Lehtonen - Ohtamaa
Lindbohm - Vatanen
Sund - Kaski
Koivisto - Pokka

#1 Olkinuora
#2 Säteri
#3 Heljanko

 

[FiLe]

With Lehtonen back in the fold, he's obviously going to make it. Otherwise, I'll mostly stick to my guns from three weeks ago:

Olkinuora
Säteri
Heljanko

Lindbohm - Vatanen
Lehtonen - Ohtamaa
Pokka - Kaski
Koivisto - Sund

Granlund - Manninen - Hartikainen
Pesonen - Aaltonen - Ojamäki
Rajala - Filppula - Pakarinen
Mäenalanen - Björninen - Komarov
+Kemppainen, Innala

For defense, I could see Hietanen maybe making it, though if Vatanen, Pokka and Kaski are in, he doesn't bring that much extra value. As for forwards, I replaced Savinainen from my original projection with Innala, but Claywoman could still make it if some weigh is placed on different aspects. Tyrväinen, I suppose, might also feature as the extra center over Kemppainen. And depending on how much value Jalonen places on recent EHT production, I'll also have to bring up Karjalainen and Levtchi.

 

[Eye of Ra]

is pillu still active?