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WC: TEAM CANADA 2023

After the loss in Athens, which followed an embarassing 6th place showing at the World Championships on U.S. soil, I remember USA Basketball implemented a system where players made a 3-year commitment and there was a pool of players, around 40 or so that were part of the "program" so speak to draw players from for tournaments with the eye towards the Beijing Olympics. Some older players opted not to partake while younger players like LeBron, Kobe and DWade committed. This system remained in place for 15 years or so and yielded the kind of results USA Basketball would expect based on the level of talent in the country, but unfortunately, due again to a system where players don't really want to commit, they had to scrap that recently, and I wouldn't be surprised if they lost in the upcoming Paris 2024 Olympics (especially with France naturalizing Embiid), and who knows maybe the cycle will repeat itself again.

The idea though is one that I like, and one I think USA and Canada should at least consider. Get 65-70 players or so that say they want to be "in" and part of the senior national team program. Announce that this is the pool from which players will be selected for future tournaments, including the Olympics. Obviously if you're injured or in the Playoffs, you won't go to the World Championships, but if you're otherwise relatively healthy and your team is out, the expectation is that you'll show up for international duty. Players can get added and back out of the program, but it's either a "you're in" or "you're out" kind of deal. As of right now, it just seems like the pool is anyone that played in Junior competition or really just anyone with the right nationality in general. No real sense of commitment or belonging to a "team" or overall program. So you get rosters that are just hodge-podge, a few guys that answer the call repeatedly but mostly just an amalgamation of whomever says "yeah, sure" each time.
 
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joestevens29 said:
It being on during the NHL playoffs sure doesn't help either.

More and more players really aren't going. Usually getting guys with something to prove more than anything.

NHL season also takes a toll on a lot of these guys and they rather take some time off before they start their training for the summer.
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If the tournament were occasionally held in Canada it would probably make a difference with regards to participation.
 
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WarriorofTime said:
After the loss in Athens, which followed an embarassing 6th place showing at the World Championships on U.S. soil, I remember USA Basketball implemented a system where players made a 3-year commitment and there was a pool of players, around 40 or so that were part of the "program" so speak to draw players from for tournaments with the eye towards the Beijing Olympics. Some older players opted not to partake while younger players like LeBron, Kobe and DWade committed. This system remained in place for 15 years or so and yielded the kind of results USA Basketball would expect based on the level of talent in the country, but unfortunately, due again to a system where players don't really want to commit, they had to scrap that recently, and I wouldn't be surprised if they lost in the upcoming Paris 2024 Olympics (especially with France naturalizing Embiid), and who knows maybe the cycle will repeat itself again.

The idea though is one that I like, and one I think USA and Canada should at least consider. Get 65-70 players or so that say they want to be "in" and part of the senior national team program. Announce that this is the pool from which players will be selected for future tournaments, including the Olympics. Obviously if you're injured or in the Playoffs, you won't go to the World Championships, but if you're otherwise relatively healthy and your team is out, the expectation is that you'll show up for international duty. Players can get added and back out of the program, but it's either a "you're in" or "you're out" kind of deal. As of right now, it just seems like the pool is anyone that played in Junior competition or really just anyone with the right nationality in general. No real sense of commitment or belonging to a "team" or overall program. So you get rosters that are just hodge-podge, a few guys that answer the call repeatedly but mostly just an amalgamation of whomever says "yeah, sure" each time.
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This is definitely an interesting idea.
 
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....so, since we're 2nd in our group & the Fins 3rd I assume we're home team ? If true, that means the braintrust could attempt to match lines - as they did against CZE. We're down to 12 forwards so everybody is going to play. I like Fantilli as a talent, but as pointed out by others he's been a bit erratic and prone to give-aways. I suggest we shield him a bit from the danger zone.
Ever so slight advantage but we'll take any edge we can get.
 
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WarriorofTime said:
After the loss in Athens, which followed an embarassing 6th place showing at the World Championships on U.S. soil, I remember USA Basketball implemented a system where players made a 3-year commitment and there was a pool of players, around 40 or so that were part of the "program" so speak to draw players from for tournaments with the eye towards the Beijing Olympics. Some older players opted not to partake while younger players like LeBron, Kobe and DWade committed. This system remained in place for 15 years or so and yielded the kind of results USA Basketball would expect based on the level of talent in the country, but unfortunately, due again to a system where players don't really want to commit, they had to scrap that recently, and I wouldn't be surprised if they lost in the upcoming Paris 2024 Olympics (especially with France naturalizing Embiid), and who knows maybe the cycle will repeat itself again.

The idea though is one that I like, and one I think USA and Canada should at least consider. Get 65-70 players or so that say they want to be "in" and part of the senior national team program. Announce that this is the pool from which players will be selected for future tournaments, including the Olympics. Obviously if you're injured or in the Playoffs, you won't go to the World Championships, but if you're otherwise relatively healthy and your team is out, the expectation is that you'll show up for international duty. Players can get added and back out of the program, but it's either a "you're in" or "you're out" kind of deal. As of right now, it just seems like the pool is anyone that played in Junior competition or really just anyone with the right nationality in general. No real sense of commitment or belonging to a "team" or overall program. So you get rosters that are just hodge-podge, a few guys that answer the call repeatedly but mostly just an amalgamation of whomever says "yeah, sure" each time.
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When Canada lost to the Czechs at Nagano in 1998, and the Canadian brain trust got together in subsequent years to establish a more competitive Hockey Canada, one of the established norms that came out of that process was the fact that they would take participation at the World Championships into account as a major factor in terms of selecting the best-on-best teams.

The rationale was that Canadians needed more experience playing in Europe and under IIHF rules, including shootouts.

Unsurprisingly, better players started coming over soon afterwards, with Canada making the finals in 6 out of 7 straight years from 2003 to 2009.

With best-on-best tournaments essentially shelved for the foreseeable future, there's no additional incentive to participate as there was back when Olympic hockey seemed to be a regular thing.
 
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SaltNPeca said:
tbh I think injuries play a decent part as well as the kind of "power of one" and the location.

Kane is injured. Draisaitl is likely nursing several injuries (I guess you saw the axe chop). Drai came in 2017 (albeit to his hometown) immediately after getting bounced by Anaheim. Maybe Marner is injured?

"power of one" is kind of like if 1 star or group of good pros from 1 team came it would have a domino effect. Crosby nor any other star or group really committed this year, it's a wasteland.

Location
Look at the 2017 Roster (&/or USA) . This was in Cologne, Germany & Paris, France. Much more populous and prestigious cities in the heart of Europe.
Oh yeah, there also wasn't a war nearby in those days. Latvia and Finland border Russia. This is no small thing.
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I agree about injuries, and NHL players generally not wanting to risk their off-season regime.

Riga and Tampere are not on par with Paris as attractions, for sure, but they are rather nice cities, especially at this time of the year. I'm hauling from Helsinki and it's full summer outside. While you probably have a point there about destinations that North Americans really are interested in seeing.

The war, then, just isn't visible in any meaningful way outside the news. The participation of Latvia and Finland is through military and humanitarian aid, including voluntary collection and sending, and sanctions, and that's it. In everyday life nobody here seems to be concerned about it because what would be the use? (Not that we don't care. It's just there's precious little an individual can do about it.) It is actually a very small thing in practise. Tourism is picking up just the same as it did a couple of years ago when the pandemic era travel restrictions were lifted.

Just adding some more detail to your comment, basically.
 
Stubu said:
I agree about injuries, and NHL players generally not wanting to risk their off-season regime.

Riga and Tampere are not on par with Paris as attractions, for sure, but they are rather nice cities, especially at this time of the year. I'm hauling from Helsinki and it's full summer outside. While you probably have a point there about destinations that North Americans really are interested in seeing.

The war, then, just isn't visible in any meaningful way outside the news. The participation of Latvia and Finland is through military and humanitarian aid, including voluntary collection and sending, and sanctions, and that's it. In everyday life nobody here seems to be concerned about it because what would be the use? (Not that we don't care. It's just there's precious little an individual can do about it.) It is actually a very small thing in practise. Tourism is picking up just the same as it did a couple of years ago when the pandemic era travel restrictions were lifted.

Just adding some more detail to your comment, basically.
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It's still hard for me to grasp the mentality of the players/wives/girlfriends. Sure, Tampere and Riga are not Paris but they are still thoroughly modern/interesting places where I am sure there is plenty enough to do and see.You go and mingle with the locals,see the sights,etc,etc,etc, what's not to like? In the case of a Canadian player/significant other it's most likely some guy or gal from Brooks Alberta or someplace, why wouldn't they want to go and experience these places when given a chance? especially the gals...............they ain't paying for the trip!!

Growing up it was a big thing if we went on a family trip to Quebec!! I would have been ecstatic to go overseas to Europe.


I just don't get it, I really don't.
 
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jj cale said:
It's still hard for me to grasp the mentality of the players/wives/girlfriends. Sure, Tampere and Riga are not Paris but they are still thoroughly modern/interesting places where I am sure there is plenty enough to do and see.You go and mingle with the locals,see the sights,etc,etc,etc, what's not to like? In the case of a Canadian player/significant other it's most likely some guy or gal from Brooks Alberta or someplace, why wouldn't they want to go and experience these places when given a chance? especially the gals...............they ain't paying for the trip!!

Growing up it was a big thing if we went on a family trip to Quebec!! I would have been ecstatic to go overseas to Europe.


I just don't get, I really don't.
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It's very much about perceptions... Well, it's no big surprise that Paris or Prague or Berlin simply are better known than Riga, let alone Tampere. (Riga does has a superb Medieval old town and a metropolitan feel to the city. A century ago it was actually nicknamed "Little Paris" by the jetset aristocracy back then. Tampere is basically a nice lakeside town but doesn't have that kind of sightseeing or historic pedigree.)
 
Stubu said:
It's very much about perceptions... Well, it's no big surprise that Paris or Prague or Berlin simply are better known than Riga, let alone Tampere. (Riga does has a superb Medieval old town and a metropolitan feel to the city. A century ago it was actually nicknamed "Little Paris" by the jetset aristocracy back then. Tampere is basically a nice lakeside town but doesn't have that kind of sightseeing or historic pedigree.)
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I guess i'm just a different person, what I would love about going to those places (much what i loved about Quebec)..............was the different atmosphere then what I had always known. The talk in the cafes and restaurants in a language I didn't know, seeing how the locals went about their business which was different then down home, seeing new landscapes, talking with people and asking them questions about the area, experiencing the different traditions. But I'm the type of guy who regularly watches Rick Steeves Europe on t.v.

I think god gave hockey talent to the wrong people sometimes. One of the many things he has to answer for when we meet someday.
 
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jj cale said:
It's still hard for me to grasp the mentality of the players/wives/girlfriends. Sure, Tampere and Riga are not Paris but they are still thoroughly modern/interesting places where I am sure there is plenty enough to do and see.You go and mingle with the locals,see the sights,etc,etc,etc, what's not to like? In the case of a Canadian player/significant other it's most likely some guy or gal from Brooks Alberta or someplace, why wouldn't they want to go and experience these places when given a chance? especially the gals...............they ain't paying for the trip!!

Growing up it was a big thing if we went on a family trip to Quebec!! I would have been ecstatic to go overseas to Europe.


I just don't get it, I really don't.
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I wonder how many on the team have kids. Going to those places might be nice... but... you've just spent the last 8 months going through the grind and travel of the NHL season. Then you want to tack on an extra 3 weeks (it's not a short tournament) in some other country still playing hockey? I can see doing it if you're single or you have a somewhat adventurous wife/girlfriend and no kids. With kids, however... nope. If you have kids you need a totally different kind of "vacation". Or if you do have kids, they're staying home.

Lucic and Myers have kids. I'm not sure how many others on the roster would. Probably a few, not many?
:dunno:
 
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Porter Stoutheart said:
I wonder how many on the team have kids. Going to those places might be nice... but... you've just spent the last 8 months going through the grind and travel of the NHL season. Then you want to tack on an extra 3 weeks (it's not a short tournament) in some other country still playing hockey? I can see doing it if you're single or you have a somewhat adventurous wife/girlfriend and no kids. With kids, however... nope. If you have kids you need a totally different kind of "vacation". Or if you do have kids, they're staying home.

Lucic and Myers have kids. I'm not sure how many others on the roster would. Probably a few, not many?
:dunno:
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I can understand that.
 
Rob said:
If the tournament were occasionally held in Canada it would probably make a difference with regards to participation.
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Tough to say. Seems like the past bunch of years players are using the World Championship as an opportunity for a holiday too.

I feel like the last time both Connor and Leon went their girlfriends were along for the trip too. Seemed like they went places after as they were already on the other side of the Ocean.
 
WarriorofTime said:
After the loss in Athens, which followed an embarassing 6th place showing at the World Championships on U.S. soil, I remember USA Basketball implemented a system where players made a 3-year commitment and there was a pool of players, around 40 or so that were part of the "program" so speak to draw players from for tournaments with the eye towards the Beijing Olympics. Some older players opted not to partake while younger players like LeBron, Kobe and DWade committed. This system remained in place for 15 years or so and yielded the kind of results USA Basketball would expect based on the level of talent in the country, but unfortunately, due again to a system where players don't really want to commit, they had to scrap that recently, and I wouldn't be surprised if they lost in the upcoming Paris 2024 Olympics (especially with France naturalizing Embiid), and who knows maybe the cycle will repeat itself again.

The idea though is one that I like, and one I think USA and Canada should at least consider. Get 65-70 players or so that say they want to be "in" and part of the senior national team program. Announce that this is the pool from which players will be selected for future tournaments, including the Olympics. Obviously if you're injured or in the Playoffs, you won't go to the World Championships, but if you're otherwise relatively healthy and your team is out, the expectation is that you'll show up for international duty. Players can get added and back out of the program, but it's either a "you're in" or "you're out" kind of deal. As of right now, it just seems like the pool is anyone that played in Junior competition or really just anyone with the right nationality in general. No real sense of commitment or belonging to a "team" or overall program. So you get rosters that are just hodge-podge, a few guys that answer the call repeatedly but mostly just an amalgamation of whomever says "yeah, sure" each time.
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Don't think it would matter.

You really think if Connor, Sidney and Nathan opted out, but then come Olympics they said we want in that Team Canada would say no?

The reason it worked for Basketball is because there was a guarantee for the Olympics.
 
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Hofer and Daws aren't playing, but hopefully this sparks a good sign for the future of Canadian goaltending.

Last time, USA and Canada played for Gold at the World Championships, it was 1960 at least... and I think that counted as the Winter Olympics. Basically, hasn't happened in forever.. 80+ years. The Germany and Latvia stories are great, but I'd like to a Canada vs USA clash in an unique setting.

en.wikipedia.org

List of IIHF World Championship medalists - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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whew, this is hard work, lol

All I asked of that team after the Norway game was to show pride in playing as Team Canada and they answered the call.


Great turnaround........well done boys.

Fired up Latvian team with a hot goalie, gonna be a tough game, lot's of work to be done.
 
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@Czechboy what did I tell you before the WJHC regarding Connor Bedard? Was I right or was I right?

What did I tell you about Adam Fantilli before this WHC? Was I right or was I right? God damn it's hard being so right all the time.

although, my expectations for Adam was 4 pts. 2 goals 2 assists in 10 games. He has two games left with which to meet my rather modest expectations. Hopefully he can chip in with an important goal in the semis or hopefully the final.

But God Damn! Do I know players. :thumbu:
 
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Gold Standard said:
@Czechboy what did I tell you before the WJHC regarding Connor Bedard? Was I right or was I right?

What did I tell you about Adam Fantilli before this WHC? Was I right or was I right? God damn it's hard being so right all the time.

although, my expectations for Adam was 4 pts. 2 goals 2 assists in 10 games. He has two games left with which to meet my rather modest expectations. Hopefully he can chip in with an important goal in the semis or hopefully the final.

But God Damn! Do I know players. :thumbu:
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You nailed it!
 
Had to watch on tape 10 hours later...what a very very pleasant surprise. Great job guys - sure helps having the best goalie.

Also pleased that Latvia is in the SF. Those fans really deserve it.
 
Always fun checking some old rosters. This is what Canada looked like back in 2003 WC:

Biron
Burke
Luongo

Bouweester
Brewer
Cross
Dandenault
Heward
Rivet
Staois

Alston
Briere
Calder
Carter
Comrie
Doan
Draper
Heatley
Horcoff
Kolanos
Maltby
Marleau
Reinprecht
Smyth
 
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