Olympics: Team Canada 2022, Part III

[Zybalto]

I think this is an overblown assessment. I am Swedish, and have no horse in this race, but I think you are overestimating just how much better than the USA this Canadian team is.

Mackinnon - McDavid - Kane
Huberdeau - Matthews - Marner
Gaudreau - Crosby - Stamkos
Marchand - Eichel - Point
Connor - Bergeron

Slavin - Fox
Werenski - Ekblad
Toews - Makar
McDonagh - McAvoy

Hellebuyck
Gibson
Campbell/Price

Would be my combined Canada + USA team. I think Canada ceirtainly have more offensive firepower but the difference isn't as large as you are making out. The defense is where I think your assessment is really strange though. I think the USA have better defencemen, and a more balanced set of abilities/roles among their defencemen.

They US have slightly better goaltending in theory. I do think Canada have the better team, of course, but not by much. And in a short tournament any of the big 5 have genuine chances really (although I don't think Finland are on the same level as Canada, USA, Sweden or Russia, they lack depth and good defencemen).

I don't think you are giving the insane 2 way play Canada's forwards bring enough credit.

In 2016, despite not being able to take any players 23 and under on the team, Canada absolutely rolled in the tournament, outscoring the competition 24-8 over 6 games and, just like in 2014, it never really felt like they were going to lose. Team Canada is just awash in dominant 2-way centers and the only 4 wingers they are likely bringing are the reigning first and second-team all-star LWers, the reigning first-team RW and a guy who finished 3rd in both RW voting and Selke voting. When you play Canada, you have no room to breathe on the ice and with every mistake they make you pay. Of the top 15 players to receive Selke votes last year, 7 are going to be on this team. They are also going to crush possession even harder being the top faceoff team in the tournament.

I really do think the main hope for teams is that their goaltending will be so much better than Canadas that it will make the difference but if Price from last playoffs shows up with this team, its game over. That team is unbeatable.

 

[therealdeal]

Kane’s not better than Stone anymore on either side of the puck.

Point = Connor is hilarious and you know it.

O’Rielly < Zegras is absurd at this point and you know it.

You won’t find much support for Carlson being better than (or even on the same level as) Pietrangelo, and if you’re saying Werenski > Theodore then you better say Toews > Slavin and Ekblad > McAvoy because the gaps are just as notable.

And all this aside…look how many more “bolded” players even you put on the left than the right.

As a HUGE Stone fan, Kane is the better offensive player pretty obviously. That’s not a shot at Stone, but Kane was been one of the best players of this generation.

Not to mention hockey isn’t played on paper rosters.

Those types of petty arguments just make us seem insecure. Let the teams and real games speak for themselves.

 

[Dominance]

As a HUGE Stone fan, Kane is the better offensive player pretty obviously. That’s not a shot at Stone, but Kane was been one of the best players of this generation.

Not to mention hockey isn’t played on paper rosters.

Those types of petty arguments just make us seem insecure. Let the teams and real games speak for themselves.

They have essentially the same P/G in recent seasons while Stone has been less dependent on the powerplay for his production. The gap between their defensive games - Stone being a Selke contender, Kane being probably one of the worst defensive players in the league - is sure as hell a lot bigger than the gap between their offensive games.

If you go back, this all began because one guy said the US had the better roster. Um, no. On paper, it’s not close. Of course we have to play all the games and in a tournament where you have to play so many elimination games in short order, anything can happen. Canada could fail to medal. It wouldn’t change the fact our roster is more competitive with a “best of the rest” team than any other single nation.

 

[jj cale]

Well, hopefully we have the U.S team out of our system now. I wonder if all this is going to be a wash anyway and the NHL players end up there at all.

 

[Big Phil]

if nhlers go, and that’s a mighty big if, the goaltending for team Canada will be the worse on paper in best on best in over 40 yrs.

If I had money I’d gladly take the field vs Canada, without hesitation.

I think we'll be alright. I wish the goaltending was deeper as well, but the forward corps is probably as good as it has been in a generation.

Yeah with this new information about potential 3 to 5 week quarantine I've grown pretty pessimistic. If that is a realistic possibility then I do not expect the players to go.


There will always be dramatics in Canada when it comes to picking a best on best roster but the goaltending situation is on a whole other lower level now. I imagine that it would get significantly more scrutiny if Canada was coming off two tournament failures as was the case in 2002. There was always going to be hysteria in 2002 due to 1996 and 1998.

I think we'll be fine in net, I worry a bit more about 2026 or even if there is a World Cup in 2024 or something. I suspect there will be some Canadian goalie who is elite like Hart or Blackwood or whoever, but by then Price and Fleury are old or out of the league. Possibly the latter. I don't see any big star taking up the load right now in the future in net.

I honestly wish they would just get it done with and have a World Cup this summer in September. Why go through all of this political red tape all for the chance of playing in China? Just have the World Cup on your own terms. Honestly, it makes more sense at this point, at least it would all be in North America.

 

[Boonk]

I think we'll be alright. I wish the goaltending was deeper as well, but the forward corps is probably as good as it has been in a generation.



I think we'll be fine in net, I worry a bit more about 2026 or even if there is a World Cup in 2024 or something. I suspect there will be some Canadian goalie who is elite like Hart or Blackwood or whoever, but by then Price and Fleury are old or out of the league. Possibly the latter. I don't see any big star taking up the load right now in the future in net.

I honestly wish they would just get it done with and have a World Cup this summer in September. Why go through all of this political red tape all for the chance of playing in China? Just have the World Cup on your own terms. Honestly, it makes more sense at this point, at least it would all be in North America.

Sebastian Cossa looks to be Detroit's goalie of the future. Devon Levi is playing in the NCAA on easy mode, setting records down there. In 4 years Hart and Blackwood should be well established starters by 2026, possibly elite. Tristan Jarry and Jordan Binnington should still be around by then, Stuart Skinner showing some promise in Edmonton, and guys like Nico Daws and Joel Hofer are dominating the AHL at 20-21 years old. But then again with goalies nothing's guaranteed so who knows. Goalies are voodoo.

 

[Big Phil]

Sebastian Cossa looks to be Detroit's goalie of the future. Devon Levi is playing in the NCAA on easy mode, setting records down there. In 4 years Hart and Blackwood should be well established starters by 2026, possibly elite. Tristan Jarry and Jordan Binnington should still be around by then, Stuart Skinner showing some promise in Edmonton, and guys like Nico Daws and Joel Hofer are dominating the AHL at 20-21 years old. But then again with goalies nothing's guaranteed so who knows. Goalies are voodoo.

Sebastian Cossa, with those eye popping stats he posted, was one of the first names I thought of for the future too. Who knows. For the longest time John Davidson was the highest drafted goalie of all-time, so it is a bit of a crapshoot with goalies. It takes a really good one to be good for a long time.

 

[AB13]

Kane’s not better than Stone anymore on either side of the puck.

Point = Connor is hilarious and you know it.

O’Rielly < Zegras is absurd at this point and you know it.

You won’t find much support for Carlson being better than (or even on the same level as) Pietrangelo, and if you’re saying Werenski > Theodore then you better say Toews > Slavin and Ekblad > McAvoy because the gaps are just as notable.

And all this aside…look how many more “bolded” players even you put on the left than the right.

Kane is still one of the best offensive players in the world. Behave.

How is Point = Connor absurd? They produce at very similar levels and Connor does it with a worse team around him. Both are good all round players, and while I do think Point is more complete that doesn't make him a better player.

Zegras is absolutely, undeniably better than O'Reilly. I would take Zegras and his ability to create dangerous chances every shift over a strong physical two way center who isn't particularly high end with the puck anymore any day of the week.

How is Carlson not better than Pietrangelo? I don't see how that is controversial. And no I might not say, Toews > Slavin. Toews has been incredibly good over a 15 game stretch this season, but before this season you would have been laughed at for even comparing Toews to Slavin who is a much more established player with a proven track record. You can't argue that O'Reilly is better than Zegras because of being more established while claiming that Toews is better than Slavin. In both cases they are completely different players with completely different skillsets anyway so the comparisons are hard to make. And Ekblad has had a great start to the season but he is not better than McAvoy, in my opinion. I don't think there are notable gaps in any of the cases you say there are gaps.

Generally, as I said in my post I agree that Canada have a better roster and should beat the US on paper. The difference is not as big as you think though.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Kane is still one of the best offensive players in the world. Behave.

How is Point = Connor absurd? They produce at very similar levels and Connor does it with a worse team around him. Both are good all round players, and while I do think Point is more complete that doesn't make him a better player.

Zegras is absolutely, undeniably better than O'Reilly. I would take Zegras and his ability to create dangerous chances every shift over a strong physical two way center who isn't particularly high end with the puck anymore any day of the week.

How is Carlson not better than Pietrangelo? I don't see how that is controversial. And no I might not say, Toews > Slavin. Toews has been incredibly good over a 15 game stretch this season, but before this season you would have been laughed at for even comparing Toews to Slavin who is a much more established player with a proven track record. You can't argue that O'Reilly is better than Zegras because of being more established while claiming that Toews is better than Slavin. In both cases they are completely different players with completely different skillsets anyway so the comparisons are hard to make. And Ekblad has had a great start to the season but he is not better than McAvoy, in my opinion. I don't think there are notable gaps in any of the cases you say there are gaps.

Generally, as I said in my post I agree that Canada have a better roster and should beat the US on paper. The difference is not as big as you think though.

As a jets fan Connor is not a good all around player. He is elite offensively but not good in his own end. Not as bad when away from schief and wheeler. Point is good all around but less brilliant offensively. So they can be equal in terms of impact. I personally think point is more versatile and his o is better than connor’s d. So depends on where you line them up and with who.

 

[AB13]

As a jets fan Connor is not a good all around player. He is elite offensively but not good in his own end. Not as bad when away from schief and wheeler. Point is good all around but less brilliant offensively. So they can be equal in terms of impact. I personally think point is more versatile and his o is better than connor’s d. So depends on where you line them up and with who.

I mostly agree. Regardless of how you see Connor defensively, you seem to agree my claim that Point = Connor isn't absurd and that is my point. "Dominance" is generally underselling the American team in comparison to Canada.

 

[SportsFan94]

My updated team Canada (If NHLers even go)

Huberdeau-McDavid-Mackinnon
Marchand-Crosby (C)-Bergeron (A)
Scheifele-Tavares(A)-Marner
Point-O'Reilly-Stone
Stamkos

Theodore-Pietrangelo(A)
Chabot-Makar
Rielly-Ekblad
Doughty

Price (if good to go)
Fleury
Jarry

Potential call-ups for COVID/Injuries

Forwards-Barzal, Duchene, Batherson, Mangiapane, Couturier, Horvat

Defense- Hamilton, D.Toews, Nurse, Parayko, Weegar, Morrissey, Pelech, Pulock

Goalies- Hart, Binnington, Blackwood, Kuemper, Talbot

 

[Adam da bomb]

I mostly agree. Regardless of how you see Connor defensively, you seem to agree my claim that Point = Connor isn't absurd and that is my point. "Dominance" is generally underselling the American team in comparison to Canada.

Yep you might be right I don't have a larger scope as I mostly only watch the Jets I pretty much just wanted to correct the description of Kyle Connor.

 

[Adam da bomb]

My updated team Canada (If NHLers even go)

Huberdeau-McDavid-Mackinnon
Marchand-Crosby (C)-Bergeron (A)
Scheifele-Tavares-Marner
Point-O'Reilly-Stone
Stamkos

Theodore-Pietrangelo (A)
Chabot-Doughty(A)
Rielly-Ekblad
D.Toews

Price (if good to go)
Fleury
Jarry

Potential call-ups for COVID/Injuries

Forwards-Barzal, Duchene, Batherson, Mangiapane, Couturier, Horvat

Defense- Hamilton, Nurse, Parayko, Weegar, Morrissey, Pelech, Pulock

Goalies- Hart, Binnington, Blackwood, Kuemper, Talbot

How does your line up not have Makar?

 

[SportsFan94]

How does your line up not have Makar?

Idk how I missed him LOL

 

[JackSlater]

Well, I suppose the US roster is certainly closer to the Canadian roster if you make some highly questionable player assessments. Not that it matters when games are actually player on ice rather than on paper. Even less so given the new report about the potential covid isolation rules.

 

[centipede2233]

I’m gonna laugh after all this discussion about who makes team Canada and nhlpa decide to bail out lol. Well that was fun!

 

[Mathieukferland]

I mostly agree. Regardless of how you see Connor defensively, you seem to agree my claim that Point = Connor isn't absurd and that is my point. "Dominance" is generally underselling the American team in comparison to Canada.

Kane is still one of the best offensive players in the world. Behave.

How is Point = Connor absurd? They produce at very similar levels and Connor does it with a worse team around him. Both are good all round players, and while I do think Point is more complete that doesn't make him a better player.

Zegras is absolutely, undeniably better than O'Reilly. I would take Zegras and his ability to create dangerous chances every shift over a strong physical two way center who isn't particularly high end with the puck anymore any day of the week.

How is Carlson not better than Pietrangelo? I don't see how that is controversial. And no I might not say, Toews > Slavin. Toews has been incredibly good over a 15 game stretch this season, but before this season you would have been laughed at for even comparing Toews to Slavin who is a much more established player with a proven track record. You can't argue that O'Reilly is better than Zegras because of being more established while claiming that Toews is better than Slavin. In both cases they are completely different players with completely different skillsets anyway so the comparisons are hard to make. And Ekblad has had a great start to the season but he is not better than McAvoy, in my opinion. I don't think there are notable gaps in any of the cases you say there are gaps.

Generally, as I said in my post I agree that Canada have a better roster and should beat the US on paper. The difference is not as big as you think though.

Zegras better than O’Reilly lol, if you don’t like his player comparisons I will make my own based on depth chart rather than lines


F

McDavid>Matthews
MacKinnon> Kane
Crosby> Eichel
Marchand> Gaudreau
Huberdeau=Connor
Bergeron>Larkin
Stamkos> DeBrincat
Barzal< M. Tkachuk
Point>Kreider
Stone>Guentzel
O’Reilly>Zegras (duh lol)
Tavares>J. Hughes


D

Makar=Fox
Ekblad>McAvoy
Theodore<Werenski
Pietrangelo>Slavin
Doughty>Carlson
Toews< Q. Hughes
Hamilton> Jones

G

Price=Hellebuyck
Fleury<Campbell
Hart<Gibson

 

[Dominance]

Zegras better than O’Reilly lol, if you don’t like his player comparisons I will make my own based on depth chart rather than lines


F

McDavid>Matthews
MacKinnon> Kane
Crosby> Eichel
Marchand> Gaudreau
Huberdeau=Connor
Bergeron>Larkin
Stamkos> DeBrincat
Barzal< M. Tkachuk
Point>Kreider
Stone>Guentzel
O’Reilly>Zegras (duh lol)
Tavares>J. Hughes


D

Makar=Fox
Ekblad>McAvoy
Theodore<Werenski
Pietrangelo>Slavin
Doughty>Carlson
Toews< Q. Hughes
Hamilton> Jones

G

Price=Hellebuyck
Fleury<Campbell
Hart<Gibson

Even within this, Huberdeau = Connor, Barzal < Tkachuk, and Toews < Hughes are MASSIVE stretches.

 

[Mogi]

Imma make a guess for the lineup when hopefully NHLers actually go there.

Huberdeau - McDavid - MacKinnon
Marchand - Crosby - Bergeron
Stamkos - Point - Tavares
O'Reilly - Couturier - Stone

Theodore - Pietrangelo
Toews - Makar
Weegar - Ekblad

Price
Fleury
Hart

O'Reilly and Couturier could be doing better this year, but that is still a line i wish i could see. Especially when that top 9 has all that fire power. Defense has a few pairs that play together and not too many lefties available, so a bit of chemistry there too.
In goal i'd honestly rather see them go with someone like Jarry, but if Price is available they will go with him.

 

[Maplebeasts]

What I'm guessing the roster will look like assuming 3 LHD and 3 RHD in the top 6, and Toews apparently not being on the long list.

Marchand-McDavid-Mackinnon
Huberdeau-Crosby-Stamkos
Tavares-Point-Bergeron
O-Reilly-Couturier-Marner
Stone

Theodore-Pietrangelo
Rielly-Makar
Chabot-Ekblad
Weegar

Price
Hart
Fleury

 

[centipede2233]

What I'm guessing the roster will look like assuming 3 LHD and 3 RHD in the top 6, and Toews apparently not being on the long list.

Marchand-McDavid-Mackinnon
Huberdeau-Crosby-Stamkos
Tavares-Point-Bergeron
O-Reilly-Couturier-Marner
Stone

Theodore-Pietrangelo
Rielly-Makar
Chabot-Ekblad
Weegar

Price
Hart
Fleury

Morgan Reilly is not making it over D.Toews. It’s never happening

Toews has 20 pts in 15 gp, a team leading plus 19 and plays with makar, what exactly is the argument of Reilly over toews, cause leafs?

 

[Maplebeasts]

Morgan Reilly is not making it over D.Toews. It’s never happening

I was making the assumption that Toews is not on the 50 man list, because there are rumblings that he might not have been. Also your issue should be with Chabot. Rielly's been a lot better this season. If Toews is on the 50 man list, then yes he obviously makes the team.

 

[JackSlater]

I was making the assumption that Toews is not on the 50 man list, because there are rumblings that he wasn't. Also your issue should be with Chabot, Rielly's been a lot better this season. If Toews is on the 50 man list, then yes he obviously makes the team.

Where are the rumblings that Toews isn't on the long list? Media?

 

[Maplebeasts]

Where are the rumblings that Toews isn't on the long list? Media?

Yeah. I'll post when I find it.

 

[centipede2233]

I was making the assumption that Toews is not on the 50 man list, because there are rumblings that he might not have been. Also your issue should be with Chabot. Rielly's been a lot better this season. If Toews is on the 50 man list, then yes he obviously makes the team.

Ok I keep forgetting about this list, wouldn’t that be crappy lol