Team better off without Kovalchuk?

[apice3*]

Also, at no point has 17 ever been a better overall player than Parise. Not when 17 was a Thrasher and Parise was a Devil. Not when both were Devils. Not when 17 was a Devil and Parise was a Wild. Not when 17 was in Russia and Parise in Minnesota.

17 had and has better offensive talent than Parise. That doesn't make him a better overall player.

 

[JimEIV]

So we are in fact a better team today...but it's not because Kovalchuk left?

You guys are funny ...and you set that up quite well to save face....

We are either better without him or we aren't ....and apparently future results don't matter...this is precious!

 

[apice3*]

Think of it like this.

You have a bag of 6 m

 

[NJDevs26]

Schnieder >> Hedberg
Ryder >> Bobby Butler/Matteau
Jagr < Kovalchuk
Clowe = or slight < Clarkson

 

[JimEIV]

Think of it like this.

You have a bag of 6 m

I think of like this way: we freed up 26 minutes a game of lackluster production, weak for checking, refusal to contest a lose puck, lack of any physical presence and shaky defense

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

Clowe is a better all around player than Clarkson

 

[JimEIV]

Clowe is a better all around player than Clarkson

If his head is not mush it is still close...Clowe was the worst move of the off season with Kovalchuk's departure being the best.

 

[StvBroDan]

Ok ignore the worthless thread best Idea. Idiotic to keep this crap going.

 

[SteveCangialosi123]

Parise's defense doesn't make him a better overall player than Kovy. Is parise a better overall player than Ovechkin? No. Parise's d does not make up for his significantly worse o.

 

[hockeyr5]

I have to say I do kinda agree with Jim. There were countless times watching games where I just felt frustrated with Kovalchuk because he would never go into that extra gear and just tried to do a safe, simple play but it would be too safe or simple. I don't know if it was due to his large quantity of minutes but he did always seem to playing with a bit of reserve.

I'm not trying to question his heart or anything like that, I could never quite put my finger on what it was but there was always something.

 

[Benedict Parisechuk]

If his head is not mush it is still close...Clowe was the worst move of the off season with Kovalchuk's departure being the best.

Who were we supposed to sign instead of Clowe?

 

[JimEIV]

Parise's defense doesn't make him a better overall player than Kovy. Is parise a better overall player than Ovechkin? No. Parise's d does not make up for his significantly worse o.

This place gets more and more bizarre everyday....Parise is not as good as Ovechkin therefore Kovalchuk is better than Parise?

Whackadooo.

 

[JimEIV]

Who were we supposed to sign instead of Clowe?

Misnomer.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

I guess a lot of folks don't want Jim to have his victory lap...

 

[Hockey Sports Fan]

You know what the best part of all this is going to be? When we have a significantly better win% next season and I bump this thread to say I told you so.....

But you'll find some other narrative or set of numbers to claim coincidence or irrelevancy...but the fact will remain, this will be a better team without Kovalchuk.

Your commitment to being laughably obtuse is nothing short of admirable at this point. Yes, you'll be right when the Devils are a better team like everyone (including me) was predicting by the end of last season, even before the Schneider acquisition. The Devils will be a better team and it won't have anything to do with rookies stepping up, a top-10 goalie, improved depth, and the first stretch of stable coaching we've seen in a long time. Kovalchuk will be gone and that's all you need to know.

You are the poster child for "correlation versus causation" and for someone who decries numbers and narratives, you've been relying heavily on both in the face of evidence throughout this thread. I apologize for wasting your time, hopefully someone else learned something throughout the discussion.

 

[JimEIV]

Your commitment to being laughably obtuse is nothing short of admirable at this point. Yes, you'll be right when the Devils are a better team like everyone (including me) was predicting by the end of last season, even before the Schneider acquisition. The Devils will be a better team and it won't have anything to do with rookies stepping up, a top-10 goalie, improved depth, and the first stretch of stable coaching we've seen in a long time. Kovalchuk will be gone and that's all you need to know.

You are the poster child for "correlation versus causation" and for someone who decries numbers and narratives, you've been relying heavily on both in the face of evidence throughout this thread. I apologize for wasting your time, hopefully someone else learned something throughout the discussion.

A lot of words to say the Devils aren't better without Kovalchuk but they'll be better without Kovalchuk.... lol.

 

[Devils Trap]

I think what he is saying that our roster is better then it was the end of last season, which it is. But it isnt because Kovalchuk left. Its because Lou went out and got good solid FA

 

[Bleedred]

I think what he is saying that our roster is better then it was the end of last season, which it is. But it isnt because Kovalchuk left. Its because Lou went out and got good solid FA

That's what I think too. Kovalchuk leaving doesn't make our team better, but the team is without a doubt better than it was coming into, and even ending last season.

CBGB as the 3rd line? Yeah that was a ****in joke.

Not trying to side with Jim here, but here's something to think about. It has nothing to do with what Jim's saying but I thought it was interesting.

Our goals scored while Marty was out and Kovalchuk was in the lineup, wasn't too much worse than our goals scored when Kovalchuk was injured. We only won three games and TWO of them were in shootouts and we needed Moose to stop all 3 shooters BOTH times. If not for our 5-2 beatdown of the Flyers, our goals scored per game wasn't too much lower during that stretch than it was with Kovalchuk out of the lineup.

 

[Devils Trap]

I will give Jim props. He was right about Kovy not being a team guy all along. I hope he is right that we will drastically improve next year, which I think we will to

 

[JimEIV]

I think what he is saying that our roster is better then it was the end of last season, which it is. But it isnt because Kovalchuk left. Its because Lou went out and got good solid FA

Which was only possible with Kovalchuk gone...we'd already be close to over the cap without Henrique signed if Kovalchuk was still here...
.in real dollars all the players signed combined wouldn't equal what Kovalchuk would cost this season...

 

[Balance]

Kovalchuk never played a full season and playoffs healthy with the team and still made it to the cup final leading the team in points.

Parise never made it past the 2nd round year after year until Kovalchuk had to come in and carry the offense.

 

[Bleedred]

I will give Jim props. He was right about Kovy not being a team guy all along. I hope he is right that we will drastically improve next year, which I think we will to

Think of it this way. We went 3-9-2 with the merc in the lineup while Marty was injured. Two of them were shootouts and the merc didn't even score a goal in either one of those shootouts. If not for the two shootout wins, that stretch is just as pathetic or even more pathetic than that 1-6-4 stretch without him while he was injured.

Marty came back and we won two in a row, and then it was back to being downhill. We also beat a team that was falling down the standings at an even more rapid pace than us (Carolina) and then beat the worst team in the league last year by a mere score of 2-1. If POS Scott Clemmensen doesn't give Clarkson a complete gift in that game, then we might even lose that one too.

Our record without Kovalchuk wasn't much worse than our record for the 13 games prior.

 

[Balance]

Parise's defense doesn't make him a better overall player than Kovy. Is parise a better overall player than Ovechkin? No. Parise's d does not make up for his significantly worse o.

Agreed. Parise is one of the most overrated players in the league. Kovalchuk is a better penalty killer than Parise and is almost as good defensively and then there is a huge disparity between their offensive skills.

There's a reason that Deboer was giving Kovy the most minutes per night and why he didn't give Parise as much.

 

[JimEIV]

Kovalchuk never played a full season and playoffs healthy with the team and still made it to the cup final leading the team in points.

Parise never made it past the 2nd round year after year until Kovalchuk had to come in and carry the offense.

What does Parise have to do with the devils being better without Kovalchuk in your example?

 

[Bleedred]

Deboer also thought it was perfectly reasonable to have two centers performing at an under 40% win rate too last season. I wouldn't say just because he did something, that makes it right.