Confirmed with Link: Tavares to Toronto (7 years, $11M AAV)

[1specter]

so no credit to the guy who actually signed Tavares, but credit to the guy who did not...
Islanders could always offer 8 years and were seen as a heavy favourite to sign Tavares before Lou came aboard. so why give him credit?

CyNick and hotpaws are 2 guys who will never admit to being wrong. And to no one's surprise both are on the 'Dubas didn't do anything' train with the JT signing.

 

[MattySnipes]

All the other threads seem so irrelevant buried in the shadow of the Tavares signing. We actually did it. Sure I still think about signing Gardiner and a few other things here and there but my prevailing emotion is that this season is going to be so much fun. Like more fun then I've ever had in my almost 50 years of being a Leaf fan. It's going to be so much fun it may even be worth the wait. I can't wait!

I'm already getting the feels Gary! October can't come soon enough but i'm just enjoying everyday. It's officially been 5 days he's been a Leaf. I don't think i'll ever get tired of counting the days

 

[Jmo89]

It's actually the dumbest argument.

Tavares not only replaces but improves JVR's production AND from a more premium position on the ice AND does not need to be sheltered to do so.

AJ or Kappy producing 43 points to replace Bozak isn't that far fetched, but if you consider the Leafs also "lost" Komarov this off-season (which apparently isn't an issue) and his 7 goals/19 points, AJ/Kappy together should be able to not only match the 18 goals and 62 points, but also improve on that. This is also ignoring the defensive gains from it.

Yeah, I touched on this in another thread. JT replaces JVRs goals but in Bozaks role. So you're actually improving the centre position (offensively and defensively) while matching goal totals from. JVR.

All they need is for one of the kids to match Bozaks points and improve on JVRs defensive game. Even if the former is lacking a bit, the latter should be easy to do.

Then you need to factor in that it's much harder to match up against lines 1-3 than it was last year which should result in more points across all three lines.

 

[Deebo]

Yes.

Yes it does.

No, McDavid's 8 year extension starts this season so Tavares will expire one year before McDavid.

 

[LeafFever]

CyNick and hotpaws are 2 guys who will never admit to being wrong. And to no one's surprise both are on the 'Dubas didn't do anything' train with the JT signing.

I heard 2 separate interviews with JT where he said the presentation was fantastic. Imagine boring old Lou and Hunter trying to put together a presentation?
We got our own Theo Epstein.

 

[LeafFever]

LOL. Giving Lou credit for what was it again, "almost" hitting on a hail mary is ... LOL.

The funny thing is, these big UFAs virtually NEVER leave. Yet we are supposed to give credit to Lou for barely losing him. The odds were on Lou's side.

 

[1specter]

I heard 2 separate interviews with JT where he said the presentation was fantastic. Imagine boring old Lou and Hunter trying to put together a presentation?
We got our own Theo Epstein.

This is what kills me, the fact that it came from the horse's mouth himself. JT repeatedly mentioned Dubas' vision and how he outlined that, as well as the presentation being fantastic and those being big factors. JT had also said in his Islanders conference call that there were various points with Lou / Trotz where he felt close to re-signing, and we even saw how hard this decision was for him, with it coming down to the wire and how hush hush it was throughout the week. Plus Shanahan and Babcock both said Dubas was the key driver in the meeting.

Dubas has accomplished something that no GM has ever done, which is signing a 1st overall pick away from the team that drafted them.

I don't know how after all of that one could surmise that Dubas did nothing was not a factor.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

This is what kills me, the fact that it came from the horse's mouth himself. JT repeatedly mentioned Dubas' vision and how he outlined that and those being big factors. JT had also said in his Islanders conference call that there were various points with Lou / Trotz where he felt close to re-signing, and we even saw how hard this decision was for him, with it coming down to the wire and how hush hush it was throughout the week. Plus Shanahan and Babcock both said Dubas was the key driver in the meeting.

Dubas has accomplished something that no GM has ever done, which is signing a 1st overall pick away from the team that drafted them.

I don't know how after all of that one could surmise that Dubas did nothing was not a factor.

because he argues from a position of furthering his agenda rather than in good faith. It really makes you respect a guy like 93Leafs who isn't afraid to admit when Dubas does good even though he wasn't exactly thrilled with the promotion

 

[Drytoast]

Why do we care about the presentations?

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm already getting the feels Gary! October can't come soon enough but i'm just enjoying everyday. It's officially been 5 days he's been a Leaf. I don't think i'll ever get tired of counting the days

It's still far away but whenever I think of Tavares and next season I get this pleasant shiver down my spine. It's clear that on paper this is the best Leaf team I've ever seen by a good margin and Tavares is possibly the best Maple Leaf I've ever seen play. Matthews will probably surpass him and maybe even do that as soon as this season but for now, Tavares probably gets the nod over Sittler, Keon, Sundin and even Salming. And he's a gudpro too, just a dream come true.

The funny thing is, these big UFAs virtually NEVER leave. Yet we are supposed to give credit to Lou for barely losing him. The odds were on Lou's side.

Yeah you just gotta love this quote:
"In the end Dubas in my estimation was not a huge negative or positive in the process. Lou on the other hand ..."

it doesn't get any more agenda driven than that.

 

[leburn98]

Why do we care about the presentations?

We're trying to figure out how to improve the presentation so we can get Tyler Seguin to come home for league minimum next summer.

 

[The CyNick]

so no credit to the guy who actually signed Tavares, but credit to the guy who did not...
Islanders could always offer 8 years and were seen as a heavy favourite to sign Tavares before Lou came aboard. so why give him credit?

I had heard by the end of the season that the Isles were out and Leafs were the front runners if JT decided to leave. When Lou came in it quickly turned to its 50-50 between Leafs and Isles but he wants to go through the process and meet with teams.

JT didn't like the uncertainty in LI, but Lou have him pause because he thought he had the best shot of turning things around. Ultimately family and a chance at winning steered him in our direction.

I give Dubas credit for not doing the ball, but I don't think anything he did was a difference maker in the final outcome. Whereas I think Lou gave the Isles a better chance. But at the end of the day things like the arena situation and the state of the team he inherited were out of Lou's control.

If anything, I give Lou more credit for building the Leafs to the point where JT looked at our core and said they will be contenders for a decade. Dubas had no part in that.

 

[1specter]

Why do we care about the presentations?

It's the offseason, there are various discussion points. And if you've been following along you'll see that there are some people who seem to believe Dubas did nothing and his presentation and pitch was not a factor and that JT was apparently gonna come home no matter what.

 

[MattySnipes]

I don't for one second doubt getting JT was all Dubas, but I also believe Shanahan played a key role in it too, just like everything that's happened since he's arrived. With Dubas being the smart, young, new GM tasked with guiding the 'hockey mecca' to the promise land, I believe Shanahan wanted Dubas to enjoy this moment for himself in front of the throng of media and all of our fans worldwide.

This was his first massive move, and arguably one of the biggest ever made by any GM in quite some time. Shanahan wouldn't say "Yea, I did this and contributed that towards the negotiations." He gave all the credit to Dubas, which rightfully he may deserve but I really appreciate what Shanahan has been able to do and the kind of man he is. The way he operates is so refreshing. So thrilled with our front office.

 

[Mess]

Its going to be really exciting watching Leafs throw JT and Auston lines one after the other and watch teams scrambled to match up against them.

At home Babs is going to toss Kadri defensively with last change against a opponent top line and then create mismatches for JT and AM with one going against a opposition 3rd line.

Many coaches must be very nervous right now trying to figure out how the slow down the Leafs.

 

[Liminality]

I had heard by the end of the season that the Isles were out and Leafs were the front runners if JT decided to leave. When Lou came in it quickly turned to its 50-50 between Leafs and Isles but he wants to go through the process and meet with teams.

JT didn't like the uncertainty in LI, but Lou have him pause because he thought he had the best shot of turning things around. Ultimately family and a chance at winning steered him in our direction.

I give Dubas credit for not doing the ball, but I don't think anything he did was a difference maker in the final outcome. Whereas I think Lou gave the Isles a better chance. But at the end of the day things like the arena situation and the state of the team he inherited were out of Lou's control.

If anything, I give Lou more credit for building the Leafs to the point where JT looked at our core and said they will be contenders for a decade. Dubas had no part in that.

Your "sources" knew more than Tavares did? That's quite impressive.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Then there were those that kept saying "Not happening", "No way he comes here" over and over

 

[Liminality]

Its going to be really exciting watching Leafs throw JT and Auston lines one after the other and watch teams scrambled to match up against them.

At home Babs is going to toss Kadri defensively with last change against a opponent top line and then create mismatches for JT and AM with one going against a opposition 3rd line.

Many coaches must be very nervous right now trying to figure out how the slow down the Leafs.

Goal this season has to be getting home ice advantage for the playoffs. Let Babcock do his thing and create a match up nightmare for the other team.

 

[1specter]

I had heard by the end of the season that the Isles were out and Leafs were the front runners if JT decided to leave. When Lou came in it quickly turned to its 50-50 between Leafs and Isles but he wants to go through the process and meet with teams.

JT didn't like the uncertainty in LI, but Lou have him pause because he thought he had the best shot of turning things around. Ultimately family and a chance at winning steered him in our direction.

I give Dubas credit for not doing the ball, but I don't think anything he did was a difference maker in the final outcome. Whereas I think Lou gave the Isles a better chance. But at the end of the day things like the arena situation and the state of the team he inherited were out of Lou's control.

If anything, I give Lou more credit for building the Leafs to the point where JT looked at our core and said they will be contenders for a decade. Dubas had no part in that.

Your logic is very circular. If you think Lou is so amazing and you give him so much credit for almost re-signing JT, a guy who has a reputation for being super loyal, then doesn't that look even better on Dubas if he was able to beat out a man with such an esteemed reputation, and pull off something that no GM has ever accomplished before?

 

[Kazparov]

Yeah, I touched on this in another thread. JT replaces JVRs goals but in Bozaks role. So you're actually improving the centre position (offensively and defensively) while matching goal totals from. JVR.

All they need is for one of the kids to match Bozaks points and improve on JVRs defensive game. Even if the former is lacking a bit, the latter should be easy to do.

Then you need to factor in that it's much harder to match up against lines 1-3 than it was last year which should result in more points across all three lines.

lets also not forget that adding an elite center opens up more ice for our other elite center, plus the other center who scored 30+ back to back years

 

[redbull]

Yeah, I touched on this in another thread. JT replaces JVRs goals but in Bozaks role. So you're actually improving the centre position (offensively and defensively) while matching goal totals from. JVR.

All they need is for one of the kids to match Bozaks points and improve on JVRs defensive game. Even if the former is lacking a bit, the latter should be easy to do.

Then you need to factor in that it's much harder to match up against lines 1-3 than it was last year which should result in more points across all three lines.

the output from JVR and Bozak, in goals and assists, will be MUCH higher by the end of the year, when you consider the whole line (assuming they stay together consistently). There's NO PLAYER who played with Tavares with any regularity who did NOT have a career year on his wing. Moulson (who had THREE of them), Parenteau (he, alone said in the NHL.com BCompton article that JT made him rich), Okposo, Bailey, Lee).

I'm really curious how Babcock will use the forwards. They have so much talent and potential up front - really impressive group.

 

[MattySnipes]

I had heard by the end of the season that the Isles were out and Leafs were the front runners if JT decided to leave. When Lou came in it quickly turned to its 50-50 between Leafs and Isles but he wants to go through the process and meet with teams.

JT didn't like the uncertainty in LI, but Lou have him pause because he thought he had the best shot of turning things around. Ultimately family and a chance at winning steered him in our direction.

I give Dubas credit for not doing the ball, but I don't think anything he did was a difference maker in the final outcome. Whereas I think Lou gave the Isles a better chance. But at the end of the day things like the arena situation and the state of the team he inherited were out of Lou's control.

If anything, I give Lou more credit for building the Leafs to the point where JT looked at our core and said they will be contenders for a decade. Dubas had no part in that.

Lou certainly deserves some credit for changing the culture and some of the players, no doubt about it. But he also made some glaring mistakes with vets. In regards to the second bolded phrase, you can't say without a doubt Dubas had no part in that. The Leafs have a large front office and they all work collaboratively. Just because Dubas wasn't front and centre during the past few years doesn't mean he wasn't providing insight or ideas into how the Leafs should be constructed. Sure, we'll probably never know what deals he had an impact on while Lou was here but to say he had no part in any of that is quite the reach.

 

[hotpaws]

CyNick and hotpaws are 2 guys who will never admit to being wrong. And to no one's surprise both are on the 'Dubas didn't do anything' train with the JT signing.

just because i'm not part of the circle jerk homer club doesn't mean i'm wrong or can never admit i'm wrong

and just because i believe the main reason JT came here was our great young core which as Tavares said himself was a/the key reason and not to play for Dubas' doesn't make me a hater lol

funny thing is i used to get flamed all the time by the sheeple majority because i didn't believe Burke was a genius and wouldn't lead us anywhere yet i don't see the hoard of his supporters admitting they were wrong

 

[The CyNick]

Your logic is very circular. If you think Lou is so amazing and you give him so much credit for almost re-signing JT, a guy who has a reputation for being super loyal, then doesn't that look even better on Dubas if he was able to beat out a man with such an esteemed reputation, and pull off something that no GM has ever accomplished before?

Again you're making the wild assumption that this was Dubas v Lou on an even playing field.

I would suggest rereading my other posts on this subject. I've covered everything.

 

[Liminality]

just because i'm not part of the circle jerk homer club doesn't mean i'm wrong or can never admit i'm wrong

and just because i believe the main reason JT came here was our great young core which as Tavares said himself was a/the key reason and not to play for Dubas' doesn't make me a hater lol

funny thing is i used to get flamed all the time by the sheeple majority because i didn't believe Burke was a genius and wouldn't lead us anywhere yet i don't see the hoard of his supporters admitting they were wrong

Nobody is saying Tavares came here only because Dubas convinced him to. It's the fact that some people can't give Dubas any credit for the process.