Tank Nation: Who's In?

[Atomos2]

#bebad4ekblad

 

[ShaneFalco]

Based on that, it looks like Leiweke might do some house cleaning in the offseason.

Or totally back-peddle and start talking about positives, they're young/growing, learning how to win.......yad yada yada

 

[stealth1]

Yes JFJ wanted to rebuild, and if u look at his drafting record he would have done pretty well. However (and i said this in my op) inept management of MLSE had the "derp derp derp we need playoffs" mentality and it countiounsly burns them and they yet have to realize this. I realize that that year maybe coming last wasn't an option, but we gave those players those NTC, u only give CORE pieces NTC.... as i said like toews or crosby (only one of those guys who deserved a NTC was Sundin really....). OUR management gave them the NTC and i believe it was JFJ. Then fletcher came in and traded up for schenn (jvr is a decent trade off) but then we didn't tank out, we didn't even get top 5 where everyone wanted Brayden Schenn, if we bottomed out we could have gotten Tavares, or Duchenne not a decent player like Schenn a real elite player. Instead we still had those guys on NTC. Then we could have cleaned up the mess, started to rebuild (lets say those two years we learned and finally started bottoming out) we could have selected Seguin, Couterier, Mackinnon and Ekblad to go along with Rielly now there is a core, but instead we traded for kessel, traded for phaneuf, signed komi and beauch to as ive referenced it before "derp derp derp we need playoffs now" mentality burned us again as we selected a player who is good (kadri) but isn't elite and if you want to compete u need to draft these elite player.

I wanted to have a lockout last season (only for the leafs benefit, i love watching hockey) because i knew toronto would have gotten at worst a top 10 pick maybe even top 5, we could have selected at worst Monahan and had a decent core, but again the "derp derp derp we need playoffs" burned us again, although if we did get the #1 pick and drafted Mackinnon we would have been set for the next 10+ years (just like if we got McDavid).

This inept, incompetent MLSE management team is dumb, keep drinking the kool-aid leaf fans, until they do a proper rebuild they will have nowehere close to a stanley cup contending team.

* Note--> i only believe this team will be a cup contending team with this core is if Rielly becomes that Drew Doughty presence, I believe he will be, but it will still be tough because we still have everyone elses hamie downs as our core.
*Note - We actually drafted Rielly,
*note- u can only get star, elite talent through the draft aka Rielly, through trades u only get players that other teams didn't think they could win with (kessel)

Why can't other Leaf fans realize this? This team will never bottom out cause ownership wants playoffs every year. Cause of that this team will always rely on other teams castoffs.

 

[blueberrie]

Why can't other Leaf fans realize this? This team will never bottom out cause ownership wants playoffs every year. Cause of that this team will always rely on other teams castoffs.

It's funny because this accelerated rebuild has given us similar results as an actually draft rebuild would have.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

It's funny because this accelerated rebuild has given us similar results as an actually draft rebuild would have.

? You mean a non competitive team against the cap with 3 players signed beyond their prime and bottom ranked prospect pool?

 

[blueberrie]

? You mean a non competitive team against the cap with 3 players signed beyond their prime and bottom ranked prospect pool?

I was thinking more just standings wise, It's certainly debatable if this accelerated rebuild has left us in a worse position than a draft rebuild would have if you include cap room, age of team and prospect pool.

 

[Trapper]

I was thinking more just standings wise, It's certainly debatable if this accelerated rebuild has left us in a worse position than a draft rebuild would have if you include cap room, age of team and prospect pool.

It has because we've been unable to acquire our biggest weaknesses through this acceleration.
We do not have strong depth down the middle.
Teams have drafted their Getzlaf,Staal,Backstrom,Crosby,Malkin,Toews,Duchene,Giroux etc. not us, not even close.
We got lucky with Rielly, why? Top 5 pick.
We have not been able to acquire the Pieterangelo,OEL,Doughty etc.
We collected wingers and castoffs.
The wingers are talented but flawed. Our goalie is very good but needs help.

 

[Trapper]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth1
Why can't other Leaf fans realize this? This team will never bottom out cause ownership wants playoffs every year. Cause of that this team will always rely on other teams castoffs.

How is this working out for the organization?

 

[Teeder9]

I was thinking more just standings wise, It's certainly debatable if this accelerated rebuild has left us in a worse position than a draft rebuild would have if you include cap room, age of team and prospect pool.

You probably aren't wrong in that respect, but Rudeboy is right. A rebuild done right doesn't sign Clarkson to a retirement plan with no way out with his skillset. They have prospects that can fill in to help your depth, we don't. Players like Lupul, Clarkson and Phaneuf are placeholders, not integral parts of your team for the next 4 years when your actual core becomes them. Outside looking in

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I was thinking more just standings wise, It's certainly debatable if this accelerated rebuild has left us in a worse position than a draft rebuild would have if you include cap room, age of team and prospect pool.

Accelerating the rebuild should have meant that we were a contender right now. Age wise Kessel is at his peak, so if Phaneuf. They will not magically take another step in their development. I would even argue that Dion is regressing.

Had we not traded for these guys but instead accumulated draft picks getting our own players in not only would the prospect pool be much healthier there would be a lot more cap room to start adding pieces to our core.

Good thing it is never to late to turn around and do the right thing. We have some nice players worth holding on to. And we have some other players who might look better on a better team. A team who actually is a contender with an already strong core could make better use of Dion and Phil (if we retain salary) and we can go on rebuilding our team, like we should have from the beginning.

 

[stealth1]

Quote:
Originally Posted by stealth1
Why can't other Leaf fans realize this? This team will never bottom out cause ownership wants playoffs every year. Cause of that this team will always rely on other teams castoffs.

How is this working out for the organization?

It is not working at all but some people on this board will have you believe that they are just a young team that is still growing.

 

[SoulOnIce]

The Anaheim and Boston examples shut down the trade theory.

I don't like Phaneuf as captain. He hasn't done the job leadership wise. This team has folded under pressure a few years in a row. I don't see a better option for captain on this team right now though.

On the bright side, Rielly has been playing solid. He can easily become the teams homegrown superstar. JVR still has room to grow and plays a good power forward game with skill.

Carlyle clearly hasn't changed the culture enough. I would go with a new coach and probably also look to trade at least one of the non backchecking forwards.

A high pick in this draft can help the overall talent of the team. So let's hope they get a good pick and deliver on it.

 

[blueberrie]

You probably aren't wrong in that respect, but Rudeboy is right. A rebuild done right doesn't sign Clarkson to a retirement plan with no way out with his skillset. They have prospects that can fill in to help your depth, we don't. Players like Lupul, Clarkson and Phaneuf are placeholders, not integral parts of your team for the next 4 years when your actual core becomes them. Outside looking in

Accelerating the rebuild should have meant that we were a contender right now. Age wise Kessel is at his peak, so if Phaneuf. They will not magically take another step in their development. I would even argue that Dion is regressing.

Had we not traded for these guys but instead accumulated draft picks getting our own players in not only would the prospect pool be much healthier there would be a lot more cap room to start adding pieces to our core.

Good thing it is never to late to turn around and do the right thing. We have some nice players worth holding on to. And we have some other players who might look better on a better team. A team who actually is a contender with an already strong core could make better use of Dion and Phil (if we retain salary) and we can go on rebuilding our team, like we should have from the beginning.

I was just pointing out this accelerated rebuild is about to finish bottom ten for the 7th/8 year.

Those results your would expect from a team doing a patient draft rebuild, not a team who is accelerating their chances of a cup win by increasing the age of the core and making win now moves.

We're on the same page here.

We accelerated our way ~5 spots up the standings to put ourselves at the cap roof and sell away a bunch of picks.

 

[johnny_rudeboy]

I was just pointing out this accelerated rebuild is about to finish bottom ten for the 7th/8 year.

Those results your would expect from a team doing a patient draft rebuild, not a team who is accelerating their chances of a cup win by increasing the age of the core and making win now moves.

We're on the same page here.

We accelerated our way ~5 spots up the standings to put ourselves at the cap roof and sell away a bunch of picks.

Ah, ok. Now I see what you mean. I agree.

 

[leafs in five]

A high pick in this draft can help the overall talent of the team. So let's hope they get a good pick and deliver on it.

yeah..they need to nail this next 1st round pick, wherever it falls.

 

[I Believe]

Unless Nonis gets canned which seems unlikely, I think a rebuild is out of the question. Our direction already seems to be set with the contracts given out this past year.

Realistically I think the best we can hope for is to hold on to our 1st round picks and trade off non essential, lesser guys like Reimer/Franson for more picks.

 

[Teeder9]

Unless Nonis gets canned which seems unlikely, I think a rebuild is out of the question. Our direction already seems to be set with the contracts given out this past year.

Realistically I think the best we can hope for is to hold on to our 1st round picks and trade off non essential, lesser guys like Reimer/Franson for more picks.

Nonis getting fired changes nothing. The next guy will still be two things. A hockey man and a guy trying to build a playoff team. He won't get rid of Phaneuf, or Lupul. He can't get rid of Clarkson. What he might do though is get rid of young players to accelerate it even further. In order to get a GM who will rebuild you need to have management and ownership looking that route, and neither are.

 

[Epictetus]

I'm in.

These soldiers are not ready for war.

 

[Trapper]

It is not working at all but some people on this board will have you believe that they are just a young team that is still growing.

It's funny how no one wants to rebuild (or say we don't have too) but as soon as we are out of the playoffs (8 of 9 years by the way) they want to tank and get the highest pick possible.
Why?
Uh because we need top end talent like a stud C and stud D we can't get through trades maybe to build a proper core?

 

[Bardown warrior]

Riddick Bowe ‏@riddickbowe 1m
Come on #Leafs lets go for 9 losses in a row! You can do it. I believe in you guys. Thats whats up.

Riddick Bowe is apparently in full tank mode

 

[pooleboy]

The Anaheim and Boston examples shut down the trade theory.

I don't like Phaneuf as captain. He hasn't done the job leadership wise. This team has folded under pressure a few years in a row. I don't see a better option for captain on this team right now though.

On the bright side, Rielly has been playing solid. He can easily become the teams homegrown superstar. JVR still has room to grow and plays a good power forward game with skill.

Carlyle clearly hasn't changed the culture enough. I would go with a new coach and probably also look to trade at least one of the non backchecking forwards.

A high pick in this draft can help the overall talent of the team. So let's hope they get a good pick and deliver on it.

No they do not. They got Chara from UFA, and Savard. i also said this in my OP that this is the closest and half their core is drafted players anyway...

Anaheim isnt even close, Pronger wanted to leave Edmonton (his wife) and Neidermeyer came in UFA to play with his brother.

 

[pooleboy]

Riddick Bowe ‏@riddickbowe 1m
Come on #Leafs lets go for 9 losses in a row! You can do it. I believe in you guys. Thats whats up.

Riddick Bowe is apparently in full tank mode

We all know the Leafs are gonna win out the season and this summer we will say "what could have been, if they got out of their funk sooner" we draft at 13 or 14, we dont select anyone good, keep the same core and choke for a 4th consectuive year. Never have I seen 3 consecutive chokes so bad and idiotic fans still want to keep the same players/core.

 

[frankthetank91]

We all know the Leafs are gonna win out the season and this summer we will say "what could have been, if they got out of their funk sooner" we draft at 13 or 14, we dont select anyone good, keep the same core and choke for a 4th consectuive year. Never have I seen 3 consecutive chokes so bad and idiotic fans still want to keep the same players/core.

It could be worse. There have been some great players picked in that range in the last few years. If our highly paid scouts can't get someone good at that range then it's their fault. It gets tougher from 15 and up.

 

[Schennanigans]

Rather than tank mode I'm more in a mode where I wouldn't mind these guys lose by embarrassing results in every game remaining. I'd probably call it not giving a **** mode than tanking since this would show how much these guys care.

 

[darrylsittler27]

Keep these players?

We cant keep the likes of Kessel,Bozak,Phaneuff. I have watched various sports for years and cant recall a team so prone to Epic collapses. There is something fundamentally wrong with this team and its players. Unless the leafs are about to buy Crosby there is no hope for this group, they are shameless joke with no guts. They are truly the definition of "Pathetic "because of the amount of money these guys make.

This is the part where they don't make the playoffs but suddenly play better so we get a crap draft pick again. I don't know what will happen but what we have been trying over and over aint working.

Signing Clarkson and tying an entire franchsie down like that was mind bogglingly stupid. Clean house,these guys suck.