Proposal: Tampa - New Jersey

[SpeakingOfTheDevils]

If the Devils valued Bennett so highly they probably would have locked him up long term instead of signing him to a 1 year 750k deal.

Shero values his upside highly.

The player is an injury risk, hence the 1-year, prove-it contract.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

If the Devils valued Bennett so highly they probably would have locked him up long term instead of signing him to a 1 year 750k deal.

wait, what?

there was no chance Bennett was getting a 'longterm' deal

 

[Edmonton East]

How does Filppula have negative value? He's scored at a 0.58ppg average the past 3 seasons so a 48 point pace per season. He's only got 2 years left at a reasonable 5mil for his production as well as being a good two way center. His NMC isn't set in stone either, there's no evidence it's a full NMC that needs to be protected.

Really, really love that you just left out and ignored the fact that he has been regressing badly each of the last 3 seasons.

58 points
48
31

He has also had a negative +/- each of the last 2 seasons which is impressive on a strong Tampa team.

 

[The Macho King]

Stop hating on me, I'm just speaking the truth without wearing homer glasses. :-P
I'm just taking the piss but the truth must be told, it will be tough NOT to buy out Flip at the end of next season, mainly because it's a draft expansion year.


I still love you, Hose !

I don't think Yzerman and Vinik are going to stomach another buyout, honestly. They've spent a ton of money for players not to play for them over the past couple of years.

 

[The Macho King]

Really, really love that you just left out and ignored the fact that he has been regressing badly each of the last 3 seasons.

58 points
48
31

He has also had a negative +/- each of the last 2 seasons which is impressive on a strong Tampa team.

Honestly - a good bit of that is usage. First season was before Johnson broke out, so he was our second line center and primary playmaker on the PP. So he got a lot of prime ice. Then Johnson started emerging and started driving him down the depth chart, but the second season still had him getting a lot of prime ice-time. Last season he was our 3C almost the entire time (except when injuries forced him into the top 6).

 

[HoseEmDown]

Really, really love that you just left out and ignored the fact that he has been regressing badly each of the last 3 seasons.

58 points
48
31

He has also had a negative +/- each of the last 2 seasons which is impressive on a strong Tampa team.

How does that shown regression, it shows his point production has dropped. He was brought in to be a scoring center to replace Lecavalier which he did better than Lecavalier had been doing the past few seasons while being more responsible defensively. Johnson came along that year and is a better offensive player than Filppula so his role changed but he was still a key piece to the team. What has regressed is his shooting % and he's taking less shots than his first year here. His skills, physical ability and the rest of his game has remained where it was when he came and isn't showing signs of regressing.

His +/- actually improved last season from -14 to a -6, while Johnson went from a +33 to just +4, Stamkos has been roughly a ppg player his entire career yet is a +5 for it so it's not an indication of talent. Our entire teams offensive production took a huge hit last year, so everyone took a points hit the team wasn't nearly as strong last year. Filpulla is still a useful player who I wouldn't mind keeping around next year as he helps us win games, the guy has never missed the playoffs his entire career but if the right deal, which we haven't seen yet, comes along I'd move him, he's definitely not a buyout candidate.

 

[AvsGuy]

Hall
Palmieri
Henrique
Zajac
Cammalleri
Boucher
DSP
Bennett
Blandisi
Josefson

Those are our expansion eligible forwards, I think I got them all. They are probably also in relative order of how we'd keep them.

I'd value pretty much all of the guys we'd have to expose because of this trade higher than a 2nd and Filppula's contract.

I was fully on board with your logic until you told me you'd keep Josefson over Filppula - those two players aren't even close and I don't understand how Filppula wouldn't be an asset to NJ.

 

[goonybird]

I was fully on board with your logic until you told me you'd keep Josefson over Filppula - those two players aren't even close and I don't understand how Filppula wouldn't be an asset to NJ.

by "pretty much all", I assume he means he'd rather keep the top guys + handful of young controlled players like Bouch, DSP, and Blandisi than have one year of Filpull. Fil is good but he's not a good fit for the Devils who already have a similar player in Zajac

 

[Edmonton East]

How does that shown regression, it shows his point production has dropped. He was brought in to be a scoring center to replace Lecavalier which he did better than Lecavalier had been doing the past few seasons while being more responsible defensively. Johnson came along that year and is a better offensive player than Filppula so his role changed but he was still a key piece to the team. What has regressed is his shooting % and he's taking less shots than his first year here. His skills, physical ability and the rest of his game has remained where it was when he came and isn't showing signs of regressing.

His +/- actually improved last season from -14 to a -6, while Johnson went from a +33 to just +4, Stamkos has been roughly a ppg player his entire career yet is a +5 for it so it's not an indication of talent. Our entire teams offensive production took a huge hit last year, so everyone took a points hit the team wasn't nearly as strong last year. Filpulla is still a useful player who I wouldn't mind keeping around next year as he helps us win games, the guy has never missed the playoffs his entire career but if the right deal, which we haven't seen yet, comes along I'd move him, he's definitely not a buyout candidate.

Well, you pointed to Filppula averaging .58ppg as a main reason he has value...I pointed out his clear regression in points on a strong Tampa team over the last 3 seasons. Pretty simple. Really don't get how you are saying that isn't regression.

See below:

View attachment 91077

He has no value at 5 million for 2 more years with the expansion draft looming and a NMC. The Devils actually could use a 3C and have tons of cap, so, ironically I'm not against trading for him. But a deal would have to be similar to what the OP posted. Actually, probably sweeter than what was initially proposed the more I think about it.

 

[tjs*]

I don't think Yzerman and Vinik are going to stomach another buyout, honestly. They've spent a ton of money for players not to play for them over the past couple of years.

Vinik's got the money and we need Filppula off the books to avoid losing another member of the top six (we're going to have to lose at least one as it is.) Even if we wanted to protect him in the draft and trade him afterward (to make him at least somewhat attractive to other teams) we'd have to retain anyway. The only difference a buyout makes is an extra year of dead money which is well worth not losing a valuable forward to expansion.

If we buy Filppula out we can protect Namestnikov and expose Killorn. If Killorn is taken (which is extremely likely considering Vegas will be desperate for top six-caliber forwards) that improves our cap situation and we can hopefully keep the Triplets and Drouin. If we have to protect Filppula then we expose both Killorn and Namestnikov and the expansion team most likely takes Vladdy; then we still have to move Filppula and a top six forward AND we've lost Flip's replacement in the process.

 

[HoseEmDown]

Well, you pointed to Filppula averaging .58ppg as a main reason he has value...I pointed out his clear regression in points on a strong Tampa team over the last 3 seasons. Pretty simple. Really don't get how you are saying that isn't regression.

See below:

View attachment 91077

He has no value at 5 million for 2 more years with the expansion draft looming and a NMC. The Devils actually could use a 3C and have tons of cap, so, ironically I'm not against trading for him. But a deal would have to be similar to what the OP posted. Actually, probably sweeter than what was initially proposed the more I think about it.

You said he was regressing and pointed to points as the reason, that's not an indication of regression. Crosby and Malkin have scored less in the past 2 seasons than they did 3 years ago too, are they regressing? Scoring is down across the board, his role has been changed but is still getting important minutes because he's a key player, he's not the first player who's been asked to change they're role to help the team more. His points have regressed but his talent hasn't, on a team that needs him to produce offensively he could be close to a 50 point player again, he won't with us because we have others to score.

Tell me how a 2/3C with his resume has no value? 2 years isn't long and 5mil is just right for what he gives you. Now there aren't 29 teams who could take him but there's several that he would be valuable tool, he's valuable to us and I wouldn't want to trade him just yet anyway unless we got a deal that works for us. We aren't desperate to move him were we need to strap assets to him just yet.

 

[Stephen Gionta]

If the Devils and Lightning are making a deal, it'll be for Namestnikov, not Valteri.

 

[Ishad]

If filp waives his NMC to go to New Jersey, isn't it voided?

 

[Eric Sachs]

I was fully on board with your logic until you told me you'd keep Josefson over Filppula - those two players aren't even close and I don't understand how Filppula wouldn't be an asset to NJ.

Congrats, you've discovered why I wrote "pretty much all" rather than "all". This is a great accomplishment.

If filp waives his NMC to go to New Jersey, isn't it voided?

No.

 

[tjs*]

You said he was regressing and pointed to points as the reason, that's not an indication of regression. Crosby and Malkin have scored less in the past 2 seasons than they did 3 years ago too, are they regressing? Scoring is down across the board, his role has been changed but is still getting important minutes because he's a key player, he's not the first player who's been asked to change they're role to help the team more. His points have regressed but his talent hasn't, on a team that needs him to produce offensively he could be close to a 50 point player again, he won't with us because we have others to score.

Tell me how a 2/3C with his resume has no value? 2 years isn't long and 5mil is just right for what he gives you. Now there aren't 29 teams who could take him but there's several that he would be valuable tool, he's valuable to us and I wouldn't want to trade him just yet anyway unless we got a deal that works for us. We aren't desperate to move him were we need to strap assets to him just yet.

Hose, I know you love the guy but he won't even shoot the puck on a wide open breakaway. Twice in game 6 alone against the Pens he passed on a beautiful scoring chance with nobody between him and the goalie to pull up and pass to somebody who was in no position to make a play. If he takes a shot and scores on either of those it could have changed the outcome of the series. That has nothing to do with the role he was playing or who his linemates were and everything to do with a complete unwillingness to take a shot under optimal conditions.

 

[tjs*]

If the Devils and Lightning are making a deal, it'll be for Namestnikov, not Valteri.

I don't blame you one bit for not wanting Filppula but Namestnikov is almost certainly not available (and the only reason I say "almost" is in case Yzerman makes another questionable decision like resigning Stamkos.) We need Vladdy to replace Filppula and possibly even Johnson next summer. Moving him doesn't save us any significant amount of cap space and would in fact prevent us from moving other players to save a greater amount of cap space. Unless you're offering somebody who will be ready and capable by 2017 of stepping into either an offensive 2C or a defensive 3C role for less money than Namestnikov will cost then we can't afford to move him, and if you had such a player you wouldn't need Namestnikov in the first place.

 

[YP44]

Hell no. No shot we are taking on a forward that will need to be protected just for a 2nd round pick. We don't even have a forward slot to spare.

I doubt any team would go for this. Protection slots will be worth more to most teams.

his NMC would be void once if he accepts to be dealt. So from the devil's POV they would not have to waste a protection spot on him.

No clue why the player would waive though

 

[HoseEmDown]

Hose, I know you love the guy but he won't even shoot the puck on a wide open breakaway. Twice in game 6 alone against the Pens he passed on a beautiful scoring chance with nobody between him and the goalie to pull up and pass to somebody who was in no position to make a play. If he takes a shot and scores on either of those it could have changed the outcome of the series. That has nothing to do with the role he was playing or who his linemates were and everything to do with a complete unwillingness to take a shot under optimal conditions.

I don't love the guy but he's better than Namestnikov currently in every aspect except shooting. Namestnikov will be the better player but currently he needs work on the other aspects of his game outside of his offense. I would keep both so that Namestnikov can learn from Filppula how to be more responsible, winning faceoffs and the other little things Filppula does. We don't need to trade Filpulla just yet if we don't have to, it also gives us depth for injuries since our centers in Syracuse aren't ready yet.

 

[Eric Sachs]

his NMC would be void once if he accepts to be dealt. So from the devil's POV they would not have to waste a protection spot on him.

No clue why the player would waive though

Great. Now can you show me the clause in the CBA that says that?

Because it's absolutely not true.

A NMC is only voided if a player is traded BEFORE it kicks in. Waiving it does absolutely nothing.

 

[AvsGuy]

Congrats, you've discovered why I wrote "pretty much all" rather than "all". This is a great accomplishment.

.. then what was the point of including Josefson on the list at all? Lol it invalidates your own opinion. If your reason for not turning a 4th into a free 2nd is because you don't want to have to protect Filppula then give legit reasons why.

 

[Eric Sachs]

.. then what was the point of including Josefson on the list at all? Lol it invalidates your own opinion. If your reason for not turning a 4th into a free 2nd is because you don't want to have to protect Filppula then give legit reasons why.

Go and read my post.

I pretty explicitly said I was listing all of NJ's expansion draft eligible forwards. Leaving Josefson out doesn't really accomplish that, does it? I figured most people can count to 7 or figure out that when I said "pretty much all", I didn't mean "every single person on this list even though its more than 7 people". My mistake there, I guess.

Heck, go and read any of my posts in this topic and you can pretty clearly see my reasoning. I've been blatantly clear on this topic and provided my reasoning multiple times, so give reading a try.

 

[VoidCreature]

If the Devils and Lightning are making a deal, it'll be for Namestnikov, not Valteri.

I think I'd rather have Garrison.

 

[Rhodes 81]

If we could have some guarantee that Filpula would waive his NMC during the expansion draft, knowing that it's unlikely he would be selected anyway, then I would be fine with trading for him. His cap hit sucks but the term makes it manageable for the Devils who are still swimming in cap space if they need it.

But the Devils would still be doing Tampa a not insignificant favor, so it would have to be a pretty sweet deal for them.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

I don't love the guy but he's better than Namestnikov currently in every aspect except shooting. Namestnikov will be the better player but currently he needs work on the other aspects of his game outside of his offense. I would keep both so that Namestnikov can learn from Filppula how to be more responsible, winning faceoffs and the other little things Filppula does. We don't need to trade Filpulla just yet if we don't have to, it also gives us depth for injuries since our centers in Syracuse aren't ready yet.

How is he going to learn from Flip when the only room available at center would be on the 4th line. All things indicate that this kid is on the verge of breaking out, what he needs once and for all is decent ice-time and consistent linemates, and the only thing that separates Namestnikov from centering the 3rd line is Filppula himself. Also, Tampa has to trade someone to re-sign their remaining RFA, Russian Bieber included.

Flip is the obvious odd man out and McKenzie already stated a month ago on TSN690 that the Finnish was "very much in play". The most worrying is that no one seems interested. If you use a logical approach instead of an emotional, you'll see Valterri must go no matter how you spin it. If he's still here by October that would only means no one wanted him, and SFY would've been probably forced to trade Bishop, or Garrison to create cap space to re-sign Kuch and Namestnikov, which terribly sucks.

 

[go4hockey]

To New Jersey: Filppula, Arizona 2nd

To Tampa: 4th round pick

You really need to stop make proposals. You have like 5-6 and all of them are real bad for at least one of the teams. You must get your values from NHL 17.