Suzuki vs Caufield - Pick one to build with

[Lafleurs Guy]

The Habs finally have a couple of great up and coming offensive players coming up. Suzuki and Caufield are both exciting young players.

This debate has popped up in a player discussion thread and I thought it was an interesting enough discussion to have its own thread.

So, if you had to build your team with one of these two, who would you choose?

Suzuki or Caufield?

Click to read more...

 

[SlafySZN]

Caufield.

 

[Gravity]

Suzuki 100 times out to 100. Easy call.

 

[Habby4Life]

It isn’t even close. NS everyday.

 

[Gamimenos]

Suzuki

 

[shamrun]

Suzuki.....good thing we have both.

 

[Deleted member 257557]

Le capitaine

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

The poll will be very biased towards position and experience.

The question should be asked once they both have fully bloomed.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Superstar winger over number one centre for sure. I like Suzuki a lot but CC is going to be the better player.

Not close in my opinion.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

The poll will be very biased towards position and experience.

The question should be asked once they both have fully bloomed.

I have no doubt there will be people who will take Suzuki based on where they are today. But this poll will be fun to look back on someday.

And… you’re not allowed to change your vote.

 

[The Great Weal]

Also, Suzuki struggled under Ducharme and away from Caufield.

Litearlly every player struggled under Ducharme yet Cole is the one that got sent to the minors and I guess we are ignoring the 2 great full seasons (something CC hasn't done) and a dominant playoff run against the Pens and Flyers.

Galchenyuk argument is irrelevant because the sample was tiny, we're talking 30 games.

It absolutely is relevant and you are dead wrong. "Man, you gotta be prepared if you're going to debate with me." NHL Stats

He was 17th in PPG IN TH LEAGUE during this time span that I cherry picked which is similar to the "since MSL" argument.

We're talking about over 100 games and counting for Caufield.

In response to me bringing up that he's one of the NHL's top 3 or 5 goal scorers since February 9th, 2022 you responded that "it doesn't really matter".

Yes the breaking down seasons in parts is what doesn't really matter as evidenced by Galchenyuk, not the goalscoring itself .

ONLY Brady Tkachuk had more ice time than Tim Stuzle last year.

He averaged 18:25 per game last year.

In what world was this 3rd line icetime? lol

Man you're on a roll for misreading everything lol. You know there's a difference between playing with 3rd liners and getting 3rd line ice time right?

I just want to remind you that he's producing at a higher clip than Nick Suzuki was at the same point in his career.

Yes because he's playing with an elite player in Suzuki and a good player in Dach.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

NHL line combinations, NHL lineups from dobberhockey.com

frozenpool.dobbersports.com

Unless you want to (mod) ignore any context at all by having horse blinders on to neglect the difference in linemate quality.

 

[Kudo Shinichi]

Suzuki

I think both will produce around the same number of points in their prime, but Suzuki will contribute more than just points

 

[Draft]

Even if he doesn’t who cares? Mike Bossy, Brett Hull… goalscoring is such a rare talent. They were one dimensional and nobody cared. Gretzky was one dimensional too. Trottier was a far more complete player but nobody would take him over Gretz.

I don’t agree with the criticism that he’s useless defensively but even if he was, he’s still a superstar talent.

I think it matters if he's going to be a player we build around. He's not Gretzky. To me this is more akin to the difference between Marchand and Debrincat. One of them scores goals, the other scores goals and wins games. His coach/dad is another good example.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Depends what you like more. Solid two way play or an elite goal scoring winger. They are tied in goals right now, but Cole is the better finisher AINEC.

Having said that, I’ll take the two way center here.

 

[417]

...I've literally never said that. Are you sure you are replying to me and not someone else?

You literally wrote (verbatim I might add)

That “it doesn't really mean much” when I brought up where he ranks in goals since last February.

 

[The Great Weal]

You literally wrote (verbatim I might add)

That “it doesn't really mean much” when I brought up where he ranks in goals since last February.

Because you are isolating it from the rest of the season, you know the part where he had like 1 goal in 30 games. I never said the actual goalscoring doesn't really mean much, so don't put words in my mouth because you failed to understand that. Unless I actually said "goalscoring doesn't really mean much" WHICH I DIDN'T you can't say that.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I think it matters if he's going to be a player we build around. He's not Gretzky. To me this is more akin to the difference between Marchand and Debrincat. One of them scores goals, the other scores goals and wins games. His coach/dad is another good example.

It’s possible I’m overrating how good CC will be. And you’re absolutely right he won’t be Gretzky.

But I see him as a guy who will perpetually be in the top five for goals when he hits his peak and I think he’ll probably win a Richard at some point. To me, that upside is too good to pass on.

No, he’s not as complete as Suzuki but his talent is a much rarer find. There’s no way I’d pass on him for a guy who will be a solid number one pivot but not a superstar.

I don’t care what position you play. Always take the superstar talent.

 

[Adam Michaels]

I'm offended Evans isn't included here.

 

[417]

Litearlly every player struggled under Ducharme yet Cole is the one that got sent to the minors and I guess we are ignoring the 2 great full seasons (something CC hasn't done) and a dominant playoff run against the Pens and Flyers.

What does who got sent to the minors have to do with anything? lol Were they supposed to expose Suzuki to waivers or something? lol

Also Suzuki never had 2 great full seasons.

You're fabricating stories here lol

It absolutely is relevant and you are dead wrong. "Man, you gotta be prepared if you're going to debate with me." NHL Stats

He was 17th in PPG IN TH LEAGUE during this time span that I cherry picked which is similar to the "since MSL" argument.

Yes the breaking down seasons in parts is what doesn't really matter as evidenced by Galchenyuk, not the goalscoring itself .

Again, why are we talking about Galchenyuk?

I've never engaged you on this topic because it's not relevant to anything we're discussing. There's nothing for me to prepare for here, it's irrelevant lol.

Man you're on a roll for misreading everything lol. You know there's a difference between playing with 3rd liners and getting 3rd line ice time right?

Yes because he's playing with an elite player in Suzuki and a good player in Dach.

Line Combinations - Frozen Tools

NHL line combinations, NHL lineups from dobberhockey.com

frozenpool.dobbersports.com

Unless you want to (mod) ignore any context at all by having horse blinders on to neglect the difference in linemate quality.

This is ridiculous...Tim Stutzle played 18:25 per game.

Trying to argue he played with 3rd liners or was getting 3rd line ice time is again, completely irrelevant.

Stay on script man.

 

[Estimated_Prophet]

CC was a rookie getting like 8 mins a night…

I don’t think there’s a team in the league that would take Suzuki over CC going forward. CC’s potential is just too great.

I would say the opposite is true. Caufield is an opportunist and relies alot more on others to create scoring chances than Suzuki does. Suzuki is a two way center who has been more productive offensively than Caufield who is a tiny winger and a defensive liability.

 

[beowulf]

Got to pick the center.

 

[Habs Halifax]

It’s possible I’m overrating how good CC will be. And you’re absolutely right he won’t be Gretzky.

But I see him as a guy who will perpetually be in the top five for goals when he hits his peak and I think he’ll probably win a Richard at some point. To me, that upside is too good to pass on.

No, he’s not as complete as Suzuki but his talent is a much rarer find. There’s no way I’d pass on him for a guy who will be a solid number one pivot but not a superstar.

I don’t care what position you play. Always take the superstar talent.

Imagine what Caufield does without Suzuki and what Suzuki does without Caufield and you will get your answer.

Both to me are tracking 2nd tier star level at center and wing (notches below the top players in the NHL). You need them both to get the best out of each other and that is likely 80-100 pts range. Our best shot at the next 100 pt guys. It only took a few decades

 

[417]

Because you are isolating it from the rest of the season, you know the part where he had like 1 goal in 30 games.

I never isolated it.

I've written about his ENTIRE career of 102 games under BOTH coaches so far.

I never said the actual goalscoring doesn't really mean much, so don't put words in my mouth because you failed to understand that. Unless I actually said "goalscoring doesn't really mean much" WHICH I DIDN'T you can't say that.

Once more, your post there there for you to see it. I'm not putting words in your mouth.

I wrote "he's one of the NHL top goal scorers since last February 9th.

You responded "That doesn't mean much".

I'm just holding up the mirror, i'm not responsible for the reflection.

 

[CHfan1]

Voted Suzuki, but obviously happy the Habs have both of them and a coach that is able to get the most out of their games.

Since MSL took over:

Suzuki - 62 gp, 26 goals, 62 points
Caufield - 62 gp, 36 goals, 58 points.

It’s been a long time since the Habs had two forwards producing this many points and goals.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

I would say the opposite is true. Caufield is an opportunist and relies alot more on others to create scoring chances than Suzuki does. Suzuki is a two way center who has been more productive offensively than Caufield who is a tiny winger and a defensive liability.

But you can get a Suzuki-lite and he’s still going to light it up. Put say… Plekanec with him and he’ll still score a crap ton of goals. Put a 2nd tier winger with Suzuki and I don’t think the results will be as good.

The reason for CC’s value is that it’s such a rare talent.