Summer '15 Thread (All Proposals/Blog Rumors in here)

[major major]

So you think Wennberg hasn't been "rosterized"? I think he is here for the duration unless he really screws up. Not saying he deserves it but it just looks like he is a fixture at this point.

True, I'm speaking normatively. And I wouldn't delve into whether he deserves it or not, I just think the skills he needs to learn (finishing touch) he should get in the AHL.

 

[Crede777]

Johansen was given very similar treatment and he wasn't "rosterized" in the sense that they still sent him down when they felt his game was lacking.

 

[major major]

So it's as clear as day to me that our one big need is top-pair D. IMO it dwarfs any shortcomings we might have on the wing. But I'm wondering how intent Jarmo is on going all out for top-pair D.

The Clarkson and Bourque acquisitions, believe it or not, were cost-cutting moves that signal the intent of the club to remain a budget team. And the fact that we took Bourque back in the Wiz deal limits our ability to get a new expensive top pair guy. If we had just lost Wiz straight up then it would have been a lot easier to replace him. And then this quote signals a different view, if Jarmo actually believes this:

“Our defense might look very strong for next year,†Kekalainen said. “We need to add some depth obviously, and we will. I think that we’ve always had the long-term picture in mind, I think that (the team’s) emerging defensemen are already very good NHL defensemen and they’re going to be better next year when we give them a little bit more of a role with our team, added ice time, and added power play duty.

...we need to add some depth to our defense. Cody Goloubef has shown us this year that he can be an NHL-er full-time."


I don't think our D is going to be even middling without significant upgrades on the top-pair. Savard - Golo - Prout is a good 2nd pair - 3rd pair - depth, not a 1st pair, 2nd pair, 3rd.

 

[CBJx614]

So it's as clear as day to me that our one big need is top-pair D. IMO it dwarfs any shortcomings we might have on the wing. But I'm wondering how intent Jarmo is on going all out for top-pair D.

The Clarkson and Bourque acquisitions, believe it or not, were cost-cutting moves that signal the intent of the club to remain a budget team. And the fact that we took Bourque back in the Wiz deal limits our ability to get a new expensive top pair guy. If we had just lost Wiz straight up then it would have been a lot easier to replace him. And then this quote signals a different view, if Jarmo actually believes this:

“Our defense might look very strong for next year,†Kekalainen said. “We need to add some depth obviously, and we will. I think that we’ve always had the long-term picture in mind, I think that (the team’s) emerging defensemen are already very good NHL defensemen and they’re going to be better next year when we give them a little bit more of a role with our team, added ice time, and added power play duty.

...we need to add some depth to our defense. Cody Goloubef has shown us this year that he can be an NHL-er full-time."


I don't think our D is going to be even middling without significant upgrades on the top-pair. Savard - Golo - Prout is a good 2nd pair - 3rd pair - depth, not a 1st pair, 2nd pair, 3rd.

I think we saw a huge difference in our D this season without Murray. His impact on the blue line was definitely felt this year. And hopefully Jarmo knows something we dont about Reilly because i think with a full season of Murray (knocks on wood) and the addition of Reilly the D could have some real potential if players like Savard, Golo and Murray can continue to develop.

 

[EspenK]

How often do top pair D-men come available in trade? Not often I think. Love to get one but I'm not too optimistic.

 

[EDM]

I would be surprised if there is any significant upgrade on defense for next year other than Murray actually playing to his potential. Savard, Johnson and Prout all have their well-documented weaknesses. Tyutin is losing a step. Goloubef is the one, IMHO , who is most likely to show continuing improvement.

 

[CBJx614]

I would be surprised if there is any significant upgrade on defense for next year other than Murray actually playing to his potential. Savard, Johnson and Prout all have their well-documented weaknesses. Tyutin is losing a step. Goloubef is the one, IMHO , who is most likely to show continuing improvement.

KConn has potential too.

 

[EspenK]

Considering the "big picture" who are the guys you would be willing to trade (and other teams would want) for that elusive top pairing D-man?

My best guesses are:

Anisimov
Atkinson
Tyutin
2016 draft pick(s)
Prout
Goloubef
Connauton
Hartnell
Hickok

I don't see it happening realistically.

Including our #1 in 2015 might do it but again I don't see it. The Seth Jones proposal made some sense to me but from reading through the Nashville board it appears that their GM is in love with Jones and will keep him behind Weber. Talk about depth on the blue line.

 

[JackieMoon]

Corsi and Fenwick are great stats. However I believe you build from the net out. Imagine puck possession monsters when you have Bob and a very good D corp in front of him. I don't believe anyone mentioned that the added bonus of possessing the puck means the other team isn't in your offensive zone. Defense by offensive possession. Bill Parcells would love it.

Corsi stats do lose their value if the forwards aren't defensively responsible, have a poor shooting percentage (lack of skill), or the defense has pylons on it. A goalie that allows soft goals would also make the stats inconsequential, I think of the Oilers as a prime example of high end skill going to waste in large part because of the goalie and defensemen. I realize the Oilers young core have a reputation for sucking in their own end but blowing up what they have in their forwards wouldn't make sense when the root problem would still be there. You can put a dress on a monkey but it's still a monkey.

Look at the Kings corsi stats with that D of theirs in front of Quick. The Kings forwards possessing the puck and their great team D makes every goalie they trot out look like a star. Look at Scrivens' time with the Kings for example. Or any goalie that the Redwings put out in the net. Quick and Howard are very good but even their backups succeed because of the defense and the forwards possessing the puck. I would implore you all to look at Corsi stats and the playoff bound teams. There are non playoff teams that have a good goalie and defensemen but so so or flat out bad forwards when it comes to corsi. This is because they can't keep the puck in the other teams end.

If our top four on defense is upgraded internally with current prospects or externally Bob will be very happy and you all will forget the days of a energy line or checking line. Two lines of wasted ice time. Rolling four lines of responsible skill is where it's at.

 

[EspenK]

Corsi and Fenwick are great stats. However I believe you build from the net out. Imagine puck possession monsters when you have Bob and a very good D corp in front of him. I don't believe anyone mentioned that the added bonus of possessing the puck means the other team isn't in your offensive zone. Defense by offensive possession. Bill Parcells would love it.

Corsi stats do lose their value if the forwards aren't defensively responsible, have a poor shooting percentage (lack of skill), or the defense has pylons on it. A goalie that allows soft goals would also make the stats inconsequential, I think of the Oilers as a prime example of high end skill going to waste in large part because of the goalie and defensemen. I realize the Oilers young core have a reputation for sucking in their own end but blowing up what they have in their forwards wouldn't make sense when the root problem would still be there. You can put a dress on a monkey but it's still a monkey.

Look at the Kings corsi stats with that D of theirs in front of Quick. The Kings forwards possessing the puck and their great team D makes every goalie they trot out look like a star. Look at Scrivens' time with the Kings for example. Or any goalie that the Redwings put out in the net. Quick and Howard are very good but even their backups succeed because of the defense and the forwards possessing the puck. I would implore you all to look at Corsi stats and the playoff bound teams. There are non playoff teams that have a good goalie and defensemen but so so or flat out bad forwards when it comes to corsi. This is because they can't keep the puck in the other teams end.

If our top four on defense is upgraded internally with current prospects or externally Bob will be very happy and you all will forget the days of a energy line or checking line. Two lines of wasted ice time. Rolling four lines of responsible skill is where it's at.

So basically what you are saying is Corsi only matters if the players are good. 4 lines of good players are better than two. Seems about right.

 

[Cowumbus]

What is our lineup going to look like next year if healthy?
I cant even answer that, not even this years

where does jenner play? Atkinson? Hartnell
38/19/71 ... 43/19/71 ... 43/19/13 ... 71/19/13 ... 43/19/65 ... 43/19/65 ... 43/19/71
11/17/13 ... 42/38/13 ... 71/42/38 ... 43/17/18 ... 38/42/71 ... 38/17/52 ... 11/17/13
43/41/56 ... 11/17/56 ... 11/17/56 ... 38/42/41 ... 11/17/13 ... 71/42/38 ... 38/42/__
55/42/18 ... 23/55/18 ... 26/55/18 ... 11/55/56 ... 41/55/56 ... 11/55/13 ... __/55/18

honestly have no idea who will play where and there is always a chance Bjork or Rychel play their way onto the team or even Karlsson.

should be real interesting

 

[JackieMoon]

So basically what you are saying is Corsi only matters if the players are good. 4 lines of good players are better than two. Seems about right.

In a way, but I'm also saying that a lot of hockey people need to redefine what they consider a good player. And that yes corsi absolutely has value. Another point, teams with high corsi don't dump and chase. I have NHL gamecenter and I love that I'm seeing teams skate the puck back into the neutral zone and start over if they don't like their entry into the opponents zone instead of dumping. You already have the puck, why on earth would you want to give up possession by dumping it down into the boards? Shouldn't you be able to have enough skill on your roster to get clean entry five on five? The top teams in the NHL do. It's corsi and organizational belief in never giving up possession. You joke about my four lines being better than two but if you look at rosters there are plenty of teams that flat out build to not have skill on two lines because of their organizational beliefs. They think a checking line and an energy lines or aka goons make them hard to play against when they actually make it hard for themselves to win.

I'm saying Prout isn't an NHL defensemen because he simply offers nothing that helps you keep the puck. Then there's his lack of fluid movement and foot speed. A low corsi is also indicative of turn overs in your own end because you're terribly short in the skill department at passing and the opponent playing keep away with you. Yet I see posters dismiss corsi and settle in on the notion that it's ok that he find top four minutes. Because hey, Prout is tough and most times doesn't "look" out of position. Good discipline in defensive positioning matters little when the top forwards and thus top teams in the league undress you nightly. I throw up a little bit in my mouth whenever I see someone praise a "defensive" defensemen. They mistake toughness and simply being where they're supposed to be as being acceptable. Every player skilled or not should be where they should. Allowing unskilled players on your roster simply because they have the simple self discipline to put forth effort and follow a system is setting the bar ridiculously low.

I also find it appalling to hear announcers applaud the efforts of energy and checking lines because a few big hits were made and hey the fans got on their feet. And the non objective minds fail to notice that their team was in their own end battling to get the puck back and thus there were plenty of opportunities for those hits along the boards or a hit on a player just as he gets a pass away to a teammate. And it never occurs to them that for 45 seconds or so their team had no hope to score a goal. And they will have to endure that for several more shifts through out the night. Do you think goalies don't care about corsi? I've seen Kings games where the other team doesn't have ten shots through two periods. Do you think goalies are impressed by the big hits within their own defensive zone? By the way Corsi was invented by a goaltending coach.

 

[JackieMoon]

In a way, but I'm also saying that a lot of hockey people need to redefine what they consider a good player. And that yes corsi absolutely has value. Another point, teams with high corsi don't dump and chase. I have NHL gamecenter and I love that I'm seeing teams skate the puck back into the neutral zone and start over if they don't like their entry into the opponents zone instead of dumping. You already have the puck, why on earth would you want to give up possession by dumping it down into the boards? Shouldn't you be able to have enough skill on your roster to get clean entry five on five? The top teams in the NHL do. It's corsi and organizational belief in never giving up possession. You joke about my four lines being better than two but if you look at rosters there are plenty of teams that flat out build to not have skill on two lines because of their organizational beliefs. They think a checking line and an energy lines or aka goons make them hard to play against when they actually make it hard for themselves to win.

I'm saying Prout isn't an NHL defensemen because he simply offers nothing that helps you keep the puck. Then there's his lack of fluid movement and foot speed. A low corsi is also indicative of turn overs in your own end because you're terribly short in the skill department at passing and the opponent playing keep away with you. Yet I see posters dismiss corsi and settle in on the notion that it's ok that he find top four minutes. Because hey, Prout is tough and most times doesn't "look" out of position. Good discipline in defensive positioning matters little when the top forwards and thus top teams in the league undress you nightly. I throw up a little bit in my mouth whenever I see someone praise a "defensive" defensemen. They mistake toughness and simply being where they're supposed to be as being acceptable. Every player skilled or not should be where they should. Allowing unskilled players on your roster simply because they have the simple self discipline to put forth effort and follow a system is setting the bar ridiculously low.

I also find it appalling to hear announcers applaud the efforts of energy and checking lines because a few big hits were made and hey the fans got on their feet. And the non objective minds fail to notice that their team was in their own end battling to get the puck back and thus there were plenty of opportunities for those hits along the boards or a hit on a player just as he gets a pass away to a teammate. And it never occurs to them that for 45 seconds or so their team had no hope to score a goal. And they will have to endure that for several more shifts through out the night. Do you think goalies don't care about corsi? I've seen Kings games where the other team doesn't have ten shots through two periods. Do you think goalies are impressed by the big hits within their own defensive zone? By the way Corsi was invented by a goaltending coach.

I'm also saying Don Cherry is a jack wagon that actually has very little hockey knowledge that is useful to post lockout NHL. And his school of thought of needs to die. He has influenced countless viewers.

Corsi has incredible value. There I'm done.

 

[Buckcub]

I haven't had the opportunity to watch a lot of games (work), and almost all of what I followed were the horrific injuries that just wouldn't stop piling up. I'm trying to wrap my head around what a healthy Jackets team even looks like right now. Please rip this apart so I can know what to look forward to.

Foligno-Johansen-Jenner
Harnell-Dubinsky-Clarkson
Calvert-Anisimov-Atkinson
Dano-Wennberg-Skille?
Morin-Letestu-Gibbons?
Tropp-Milano-Boll?

I assume Letestu is gone. Morin, Gibbons, Skille and Tropp should all be on 2-ways, right? Could we break camp next year with a Dano-Milano-Wennberg 4th line? I know we have a long way to go, but it's just weird.

Johnson-Murray
Tyutin-Savard
Goloubef-Prout
Falk, Connaughton

I don't have a feel for D-man pairings. These seem weak. I know we'd all like an upgrade, but is this passable?

Again, just trying to wrap my head around where the Jackets are, and where they might be.

 

[JacketsDavid]

Including our #1 in 2015 might do it but again I don't see it. The Seth Jones proposal made some sense to me but from reading through the Nashville board it appears that their GM is in love with Jones and will keep him behind Weber. Talk about depth on the blue line.

If we trade our first round pick for a top pairing d-man I will drop my season tickets. It is a move these idiots could do (the short sighted vision of this team to be competitive), but a likely top 6 pick in the deepest draft in a few years we better hadn't trade it for a quick fix.

 

[Cowumbus]

the only dmen via UFA that seem somewhat worth it are Boychuck and Franson.. don't really want to overpay for one of these guys. probably have to upgrade d through a trade

 

[candyman82]

If we trade our first round pick for a top pairing d-man I will drop my season tickets. It is a move these idiots could do (the short sighted vision of this team to be competitive), but a likely top 6 pick in the deepest draft in a few years we better hadn't trade it for a quick fix.

I would easily give up a 6th OA pick for a legit #1 D-man with some term. Those are hard to come by. I'd take a player of that quality over a guy who might eventually become that.

 

[Cowumbus]

If we trade our first round pick for a top pairing d-man I will drop my season tickets. It is a move these idiots could do (the short sighted vision of this team to be competitive), but a likely top 6 pick in the deepest draft in a few years we better hadn't trade it for a quick fix.

you wouldn't trade it in a package for Seth Jones, Douggie Hammilton, or Adam Larsson...

if its not top 3 I would for sure

 

[Buckcub]

If we trade our first round pick for a top pairing d-man I will drop my season tickets. It is a move these idiots could do (the short sighted vision of this team to be competitive), but a likely top 6 pick in the deepest draft in a few years we better hadn't trade it for a quick fix.

We're at a point that we have to trade multiple assets for a high end talent, though. Draft picks will always be more valuable to people who think they're smarter.

Does something like Anisimov, RFA Calvert, Wennberg and a 2nd get it done for a Jones? More?

It seems like we could give up that kind of package and not feel it with our young forward depth.

 

[EspenK]

If we trade our first round pick for a top pairing d-man I will drop my season tickets. It is a move these idiots could do (the short sighted vision of this team to be competitive), but a likely top 6 pick in the deepest draft in a few years we better hadn't trade it for a quick fix.

Let's say the choice is between drafting Hanifin who gets really high marks or obtaining Seth Jones through a trade. Jones had at least as good ratings and he seems to be doing well. I'd make that trade. I wouldn't as mentioned above trade the chance to draft McD or Eichel but the rest I would. Jones is just like a #1 pick only 2 years down the curve. He and Murray would solidify the D for a long time, as long as Murray stays healthy.

I would be less pleased (and probably pissed off) if we traded our pick for a guy less than Jones or Doughty.

 

[JacketsDavid]

No way do I trade that pick.

If we trade that pick we are assuming we are 1 player away from being a championship team.
We may be 1 player away from being a competitive team but no where near a championship team (missing too may top line forwards, backup goalie, another d-man).
Even if you could trade that pick for whatever d-man - what would our cap/budget situation look like? It would be impossible to add othr pieces unless you guy they system giving up assets to dispose of bad contracts (meaning giving up valuable players/picks to get rid of bad contracts).

No way would I be that short sighted. We're not close enough to make a big acquisition to be a slightly above average team. We tried that with getting Carter, we got hosed on that deal long term is an example of making a big move befoe a team is ready.

 

[punk_o_holic]

the only dmen via UFA that seem somewhat worth it are Boychuck and Franson.. don't really want to overpay for one of these guys. probably have to upgrade d through a trade

Add Sekera to the list and maybe Petry. I personally won't mind Z. Michalek. Will be cheaper then the bigger name guys but not sure how cheap. Looking at the "trade thread between Arizona and St Louis", it seems like he's a shot blocker(will block any shot), great PK guy, smart with the puck and good first pass. Overall a good shutdown defensemen which we need. Negatives on him,I think 32 years old, slowly his play is on the decline compared to the past, and because of his style of play, staying healthy might be an issue.

Trade route, I will keep tabs on Chris Tanev of the Canucks. Probably not available. But if he is, I see many teams interested so the price might be high. But he's 25 and would fit right in the core of this team. He's due for a big raise though. I think after having a good year, old management told him to take a 1 year deal for cheap to prove last year wasn't a fluke. He did that. Then I think new management came and was told the same thing so he got a slight raise on a 1 year. He's still playing great. Don't think he's going to take another bridge deal.

 

[JackieMoon]

My hope for our forwards next year.

Foligno-Johansen-Atkinson
Jenner-Dubinsky-Hartnell
Anisimov-Wennberg-Dano
Calvert-Karlsson-Clarkson
Bourque
Morin

Rychel can spend another year in the AHL and Milano his first there. Not because of failure but because they'll be better for it. When healthy the Jackets have depth. Boll not being on the roster would be a beautiful thing. He's been around an awfully long time and fighting is dying off in NHL. Skille has had chances to show offense and hasn't consistently.

On defense who knows.

Johnson-Murray
Tyutin-Savard
Connauton-Reilly?

Hopefully Prout will get a chance with some other team but I just as much wish that he won't be on the Jackets depth chart next year.

I'm hoping they sign a cheap veteran that can move the puck. Doesn't have to pile up points but just having some skill would be nice. Be able to make good passes to get out of the defensive zone and hold it into the offensive. A grey beard that still has some wheels would be ideal to pass on some knowledge and play on the third pairing.

In a couple more years and drafts we could have the forward depth to just trade for a top pairing defenseman. At least we have time to see what Murray and Reilly can do. Savard has a nice skill set and Johnson could still be that number one guy. The mental aspect game matters and what Johnson has had to deal with off the ice with his parents and the financial mess are not nothing. He was better last year. And the Jackets could land a very good D prospect in this year's draft.

We know Bob is the man between the pipes. Curtis would be cheap to resign as a backup and has a 91 save percentage with a shaky team in front of him due to injuries. I currently have a stats crush on McElhinney.

We could all dream of free agents and trades but this is what we have to work with.
Reilly gets to free agency faster if he signs with Columbus. Agents like money.

 

[EspenK]

So if Jones was in this years draft would you draft him? To me this is the easiest way to look at the deal. If we would draft Hanifin why wouldn't we trade that pick for Jones? He is still on an ELC and then will be an RFA for 4 years I think. Plenty of time to fit him in under the cap.

In general I agree with not trading this year's number 1. For certain young guys who have the ability to be an all star for years to come I would make an exception. Jones would be one of those.

 

[Cowumbus]

So if Jones was in this years draft would you draft him? To me this is the easiest way to look at the deal. If we would draft Hanifin why wouldn't we trade that pick for Jones? He is still on an ELC and then will be an RFA for 4 years I think. Plenty of time to fit him in under the cap.

In general I agree with not trading this year's number 1. For certain young guys who have the ability to be an all star for years to come I would make an exception. Jones would be one of those.

agreed. Don't know what the value on Jones is but id imagine 2015 1st + Anisimov +