Sudbury Wolves 2019-20 Season Thread (Part 3)

[howlman]

Papineau at this trade deadline is going to make a deal if it is the right cost and makes sense.

Multiple deals, and he needs to pay the prices to do so. This team needs help everywhere. Anything less and Papineau has failed this team. That's what it has come down to. Simple as that. We've been patient with Paps, and he's had time to build his team. Trading Byfield isn't an option for Papineau, and standing pat is just plain stupidity. So Paps needs to buy and buy lots.

 

[cub]

Multiple deals, and he needs to pay the prices to do so. This team needs help everywhere. Anything less and Papineau has failed this team. That's what it has come down to. Simple as that. We've been patient with Paps, and he's had time to build his team. Trading Byfield isn't an option for Papineau, and standing pat is just plain stupidity. So Paps needs to buy and buy lots.

you have some valid points, but at the end of the day the deal has to make sense. Many on here would whine if Papineau gives too much on a deal. I really think Papineau is trying hard to make a deal from what I have been hearing, if he doesn't get what posters wanted has he failed? Many variables for player movement, I don't think it's Papineau lack of trying. Anyone can sell the farm to make a deal, don't need a manager to do that, it has to make sense.

 

[HockeyPops]

Looks like you might have 7 cards left, from what I can tell:

1. Byfield, Quinton
2. Levin, David
3. Murray, Blake
4. Bulitka, Shane
5. Carson, Macauley
6. Robinson, Owen
7. Thompson, Jack
8. Loponen, Kalle
9. Hutcheson, Nolan
10. Gilhula, Owen
11. Stillman, Chase
12. Serensits, Emmett
13. Phillips, Isaak
14. Ross, Liam
15. Manikis, Kosta
16. Stratis, Peter
17. McCallum, Landon
18. Larmand, Ethan
19. Samuelsson, Adam
20. Ribau, Nathan
21. Biondi, Giordano
22. Weeks, Mitchell
23. Purboo, Christian

Affiliate Players:

Caron, Phil
DeGrazia, Nick
Maltais, Brady
Smith, Ryan

 

[Wiserbud]

Deals require two parties to come to terms. Secondly, you need to have assets that are comparable in value to what you are buying. This may be the biggest challenge for Paps. I hope he is able to pull a rabbit out of the hat... but I am not holding my breath....

 

[dirty12]

you have some valid points, but at the end of the day the deal has to make sense. Many on here would whine if Papineau gives too much on a deal. I really think Papineau is trying hard to make a deal from what I have been hearing, if he doesn't get what posters wanted has he failed? Many variables for player movement, I don't think it's Papineau lack of trying. Anyone can sell the farm to make a deal, don't need a manager to do that, it has to make sense.

If the offer to a seller makes sense the deals will get done. If the deals don’t get done, Papineau blew the rebuild. The return on Lalonde, Lyszcarczyk, Bowman, Pezzetta, O’Grady, Sokolov, Ali, Garagan, Baker, Tabak is to be used on a run with the player the wolves tanked for.

 

[Bra Wavers]

Question, is there a trade freeze on during the WJC for all players, or just trades that involve players at the WJC?

The trade freeze only applies to WJC players and once their team is done at the WJC they can be traded.
If Jenik was healthy, he could have been dealt now.

 

[howlman]

you have some valid points, but at the end of the day the deal has to make sense. Many on here would whine if Papineau gives too much on a deal. I really think Papineau is trying hard to make a deal from what I have been hearing, if he doesn't get what posters wanted has he failed? Many variables for player movement, I don't think it's Papineau lack of trying. Anyone can sell the farm to make a deal, don't need a manager to do that, it has to make sense.

Absolutely, many on here will whine that Papineau has overpaid if he gets some big deals done. People whined he overpaid for Demeo last season lol.. they better buckle up for what's to come. He's put himself in this position, and other teams will feast on it. Look at the Purboo deal. He was desperate and North Bay knew it and they did very well on that return. I fully expect Paps will need to overpay on certain deals if he wants to buy big. He may need to outbid certain teams. He shouldn't have left everything to the last minute. Too much is needed now. McCallum and Phillips are his two big chips he needs to move in, that other teams will have interest in. Along with multiple 2nd's and 3rd's in the coming years. That's what he has to play with.

 

[cub]

If the offer to a seller makes sense the deals will get done. If the deals don’t get done, Papineau blew the rebuild. The return on Lalonde, Lyszcarczyk, Pezzetta, O’Grady, Sokolov, Ali, Baker, Tabak is to be used on a run with the player the wolves tanked for.

Is three years on the job a true rebuild? I have argued these moves in the past with you before not going at it again, the majority of these moves were forced moves players wanted out when Papineau first got there, except for Pezzetta, Ali, and Baker. Most of these were fixes from previous manager BB had made. Lalonde, Ali, Baker were not Papineau picks.

Sokolov was tank to get Byfield also they did get a credible player Alexey Lipanov 35 games with Barrie had 11 goals and 18 assists for 29 points at the time. Selected by the Tampa Bay Lightning in the 3rd round (76th overall).

I'm not going to play hindsight manager like many on here do. If you look at all the moves at the time it all makes sense or hand was forced.

 

[howlman]

Is three years on the job a true rebuild?

How many years does Paps need? Next year doesn't look great for the Wolves, compared to some other teams in the Eastern Conference. And then how many years after that?

 

[Voice from the North]

If the offer to a seller makes sense the deals will get done. If the deals don’t get done, Papineau blew the rebuild. The return on Lalonde, Lyszcarczyk, Bowman, Pezzetta, O’Grady, Sokolov, Ali, Garagan, Baker, Tabak is to be used on a run with the player the wolves tanked for.

If you build around a certain age group, it usually takes four years to build up as opposed to this rushed rebuild. In this case it’s two because of the caliber of player drafted as you have to think how different the plan would have been if Sudbury didn’t pick 1st overall. Seeing as this year is the target, Papineau has had to keep some vets around that he might not have kept if his target was another year further down the road. You might have some of the players like Labelle and others on this team while players like Gilhula and Stratis may have been flipped for picks. I don’t think he blew the rebuild yet but he’s stuck with some of the bad decisions of the previous regime. What he may have blown was the opportunity to pick up some stronger defensive players plus forward size and grit in the summer and during the season with some small moves. The team has more depth of OHL players then it used to by a long shot, they have improved their reputation amongst agents and players. It’s more then just the on ice items Papineau has had to fix but in many regards he has done well.

 

[Voice from the North]

I'm saying they should only have one guy at the helm making phone calls to avoid that stuff, cuz It did happen.

I fully believe this happened.

 

[I Loveallsports]

How many years does Paps need? Next year doesn't look great for the Wolves, compared to some other teams in the Eastern Conference. And then how many years after that?

A true rebuild is five seasons with regards to sports teams.

 

[Voice from the North]

A true rebuild is five seasons with regards to sports teams.

3 to 4 in junior hockey

 

[Wiserbud]

How many years do the Leafs need? Its not as simple as the 'three year cycle' suggests. You are competing against all the teams, at the same time, for limited assets. Its rare you pull off a Sgarbossa kinda deal... but then to also become a contender the odds continually drop. Only one team can win at the end. Has not been the Leafs, and has not been the Wolves. How long is Dubas' rebuild, and at the time he brought arguably the best NHL coach of the era in Babcock... was that a good decision? At the time.

 

[cub]

Absolutely, many on here will whine that Papineau has overpaid if he gets some big deals done. People whined he overpaid for Demeo last season lol.. they better buckle up for what's to come. He's put himself in this position, and other teams will feast on it. Look at the Purboo deal. He was desperate and North Bay knew it and they did very well on that return. I fully expect Paps will need to overpay on certain deals if he wants to buy big. He may need to outbid certain teams. He shouldn't have left everything to the last minute. Too much is needed now. McCallum and Phillips are his two big chips he needs to move in, that other teams will have interest in. Along with multiple 2nd's and 3rd's in the coming years. That's what he has to play with.

Well Papineau needed a goalie, he may have overpaid a bit but it was great that he got a goalie before season started, due to import goalie not coming and not many options for him at the time. Believe it or not, Purboo 16th in stats are in the middle he is 13 W 8 L with a 3.67 average, 0.887 sav percentage. I'm not a fan of his, and I always hope we get some consistency from him, however his stats defend the move, also he can play for Wolves as an OA next year.

Let's focus on what we can get now and stop going back. I agree the major bargaining chips are McCallum and Philips and picks, let see how it plays out.

 

[I Loveallsports]

3 to 4 in junior hockey

Not much difference between 4-5 years.
I'd judge any Gm in any sport after five years at the position

 

[djscooter]

As per OHL Insiders, sounds like they're trying to trade or waive Bulitka to make room for an OA, possibly Lodnia.

 

[hockieguy]

Is three years on the job a true rebuild? I have argued these moves in the past with you before not going at it again, the majority of these moves were forced moves players wanted out when Papineau first got there, except for Pezzetta, Ali, and Baker. Most of these were fixes from previous manager BB had made. Lalonde, Ali, Baker were not Papineau picks.

Sokolov was tank to get Byfield also they did get a credible player Alexey Lipanov 35 games with Barrie had 11 goals and 18 assists for 29 points at the time. Selected by the Tampa Bay Lightning in the 3rd round (76th overall).

I'm not going to play hindsight manager like many on here do. If you look at all the moves at the time it all makes sense or hand was forced.

Last year was the year that players in earnest should have been moved. Papineau did a pretty good job cleaning up Branches blunders to his credit. Once he did, the mistake to not move the goalie is being paid for today. The assets picked up last year would've paid off in spades this year. The Wolves would not be over the barrel with anything. The biggest issue IMO only, was the De Meo trade. It is unfortunate that he was injured and could not play this year, but giving up three players for one was steep. The thing that rubs me the wrong way about this deal, is that those three players could be in your line up for three or four years. Same goes for the Purboo deal. Four players that you could potentially have for three or four years in your lineup. So, the team game up seven players for two. Seven players...…

There is a lot to determine why guys are here when many believe they shouldn't be here. I also know for a fact that there are GMs in this league that believe that a couple of Wolves players shouldn't be in the league at all. That being said, the view from another teams lens it how it has to be viewed. Not many GMs believe Mc Callum is worth what the Wolves believe he is worth. So, if your looking to deal for Noel in Oshawa, do the Generals even want Mc Callum? If the Wolves are putting Mc Callum as the "big piece" to the deal, then I believe the Wolves will be in trouble. Many of the players on the Wolves are over valued, that is why players like Levin are still here. Yes he is having a good season, but many GMs feel that he was not anywhere near a first overall pick, me included.

My advice would be for many posters on here to take off the Sudbury Wolves glasses and put on the glasses of the 19 other teams that are looking at the Wolves. Who is available, and who is worth dealing for that will help their team. When someone looks at it this way, the options are very limited, especially when you don't have the six picks the Wolves gave up for two guys. These are just my thoughts. It is wait and see, but at this point.

 

[Wiserbud]

I would be surprised to see Bulitka gone... especially via waivers.

 

[howlman]

As per OHL Insiders, sounds like they're trying to trade or waive Bulitka to make room for an OA, possibly Lodnia.

Wow if that's true Bulitka is on the waiver wire.. great team guy and hard worker and all, but an OA upgrade would be big.

 

[I Loveallsports]

I would be surprised to see Bulitka gone... especially via waivers.

I read that. Interesting...

 

[justawolfan]

I read that. Interesting...

Very. Arguably the best 2-way / defensive forward on the team so.....?

 

[Wolfman Jack]

If you build around a certain age group, it usually takes four years to build up as opposed to this rushed rebuild. In this case it’s two because of the caliber of player drafted as you have to think how different the plan would have been if Sudbury didn’t pick 1st overall. Seeing as this year is the target, Papineau has had to keep some vets around that he might not have kept if his target was another year further down the road. You might have some of the players like Labelle and others on this team while players like Gilhula and Stratis may have been flipped for picks. I don’t think he blew the rebuild yet but he’s stuck with some of the bad decisions of the previous regime. What he may have blown was the opportunity to pick up some stronger defensive players plus forward size and grit in the summer and during the season with some small moves. The team has more depth of OHL players then it used to by a long shot, they have improved their reputation amongst agents and players. It’s more then just the on ice items Papineau has had to fix but in many regards he has done well.

He started to screw up the build up to this year last year. Why take a UKKO first overall in the import when he could have taken an import who would factored in for two years. Then messing up not getting a sure thing to report this year really handcuffs the depth of the team in a season uoh want to contend with Byfield and company. Not finding a credible goalie in the off season ala Ingham was poor vision on the management. Expecting to start the season with Weeks and Lemaire! Then panic move to get Purboo. Then nothing to change some chemistry. Change a couple of faces and inject some energy players into the line up that play a consistent game. Anyway lots of reasons why this team ended up being where they are at the moment. I’d be quite embarrassed as a GM thinking he has second tide up in the East and could wait for the deadline to spin his magic is just crazy. Riding a 6 game losing streak and only a few points ahead of teams that may overtake their position. The cost becomes different for Papineau because of the position he is in. Other GMs know it. Plain and simple. As howlman says don’t be surprised at the cost of his transactions. We have no other choice! No other team is going to feel sorry us and gift us one. Let’s be honest here.

WJ

 

[hockeynorth]

Now if he’s going to move Bully and grab Lodnia he really may be looking to load the **** up because that’d shake up a lot but Lodnia is a damn good player and I for one would be pumped

 

[Jim1579]

I read that. Interesting...

Possibly McGregor or Josling accompanied by Kooy coming your way?