OT: Subban - Just for Laughs Gala

[E82]

Do you know Mrs. Beliveau personally? lol nevermind.

I do yes.

Sorry

 

[VladTheLimpWhaler]

You don't really believe all this, do you?

If this isn't an ironic, satirical take on others, it might be in the running for the worst post of all time.

It's a comedy show - you clearly weren't there, you clearly don't care about it, you clearly ignore when he thanks the fans and the city and even the organization.

In what world do you live that you think you can cast such massive judgements after a comedy bit? Is it always so dreary and humourless or are you playing a character?

What is hockey if not a diversion, if not entertainment. What are hockey players if not entertainers?

How come you get to hold him to such a high, unnecessary, personal standard - what gave you the impression that you would get away with writing such blatantly biased takes?

When we discuss management or players or games - we discuss them in and of itself. I know nothing of Therrien's personality and my criticisms of him and his mannerisms is only referring to his hockey-related identity.

You're flat-out calling Subban, the person, classless. Which exposes your own identity better than you'd think.

Nope, I am completely, 100% sincere in my post. I'm a long time reader here so I have seen the kinds of things you post, so you calling my post the worst of all time is quite a compliment, thanks.

 

[ColinO]

Not sure what you're referring to there about that tv show "better person" thing, but none of what I said is rubbish. What PK is doing here is employing very textbook emotional manipulation techniques, something that to anyone with experience in personality disorders is plainly obvious. The thing is, most people don't understand or respect the significance of understanding personality disorders, so they are not as keenly aware of the subtle emotional manipulation tactics that emotional abusers employ. What PK did was classic gaslighting, here is a quote about gaslighting from a good introductory article on it:

“Dirty†fighters typically try to get the better of others by using tactics that effectively conceal obvious aggressive intent on their part while still successfully throwing their opponent on the defensive. The person on the receiving end of this kind of behavior senses in their gut that there’s some kind of victimization at play but can’t point to anything that clearly and objectively backs up their hunch. As a result, they end up feeling more than a little crazy. They might harbor feelings of anger toward the person they sense is an aggressor but also find themselves thrown into positions of anxious defensiveness, which makes them feel unjustified and unsure of themselves. If their manipulator also happens to be skilled in the art of “impression management†— displaying superficial charm and enjoying the capacity to make favorable impressions on others — those on the receiving end of their tactics are likely to feel even crazier. They might say to themselves: “I’ve always thought there was something wrong with them but perhaps there really is something wrong with me. After all, everyone else seems to like them.†So, in a sense, almost all manipulative behavior produces a gaslighting effect to some degree.​

Tell me that doesn't describe PK.

He goes to the Gala, cracks a few jokes, has a big smile on his face, and to his fans it looks all innocent, but look at what he actually accomplished. He reinforced every single anti-management pro-PK impression out there, showing himself to be a master manipulator who is very adept at managing people's impressions and being charming. All of a sudden, management is on the defensive and because it was a comedy show, there is this cover of "oh, it was just comedy" and management would look like they can't take a joke if they get offended by anything he says. In fact, they don't just look like they can't take a joke, they look like they are the ones who are being aggressive because they would look like they are attacking PK for having a personality and cracking jokes. That's what covert aggression does - it hides the aggressive intention in the original act, so that when the victim reacts to the abuse, the victim looks like they are the one being aggressive. Like a bully who spreads lies about you behind your back and makes you look like you're the crazy paranoid aggressive one when you freak out about it.

Seriously, learn about gaslighting. Learn about narcissistic abuse and about the dynamics of narcissistic-codependent relationships. Become aware of subtle emotional manipulation tactics such as gaslighting, belittling, reframing, love-bombing, and the whole narcissistic cycle of idealisation followed by devaluation and discarding.

So when you ask for evidence about PK's character, you have to understand that narcissistic personalities know full well about the importance of evidence and make it their duty to control all evidence, managing perceptions and impressions as their main factor. That's what narcissistic personalities do, they care only about perceptions, about how things look, and care very little about substance. Meaning, they don't care about being a good person, they care about looking like a good person and being seen as a good person in the eyes of others. They will put more effort into looking like a good person than an actual good person would put into actually being a good person. Think George Costanza on Seinfeld - always running around lying, managing other people's perceptions, staging elaborate situations like the marble rye scenario just to avoid looking bad in front of someone. The most important thing to a narcissistic personality is perceptions, they live in the world of perceptions. They bend, twist, and re-frame facts to their advantage and masterfully inhabit the world of perceptions. They paint a magnificent, exciting picture in their minds and they live inside that picture, reality be damned. When reality interferes with their fantasy, reality has to be discarded so that the fantasy can be preserved.

So what do the psychology textbooks say about people who diagnose other people with psychiatric disorders without knowing the first thing about them?

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Interesting stuff here...unfortunately, it's going to be presented as you just hating on PK Subban, but there's some really solid stuff that should at the very least make people think about this whole PK vs. Management angle.

I'm not sure I agree with all of the principles here but I'm certainly not going to dismiss them. I especially was provoked by the part about "not caring about being a good person, just looking like a good person".

Again, I'm not sure if I'm ready to apply that to PK Subban, I don't know him personally and have trouble believing someone who is so socially-conscious and donates so much time/money to charity, could be so duplicit, but it's certainly not inconceivable

and I only think that because of his 60 minute sit down with Eric Engels and this comedy gala-thing just turned me right off...

There's absolutely nothing solid in that post, and the fact that your entire reply is filled with your typical non-committal endorsement style BS, I suspect you know it, too.

 

[VladTheLimpWhaler]

I've never seen such extreme, tertiary discourse on HF. It has nothing to do with hockey, with hockey management, or even with perceptions of the trade. No, it's one sycophant flat out insulting a hockey player's character and claiming that he's gaslighting the city of Montreal.

This is a thread about PK's JFL event, not hockey, not sports, so my commentary is completely appropriate here. Your description of my post being "tertiary" applies to this entire thread, not just my post.

 

[E82]

There's absolutely nothing solid in that post, and the fact that your entire reply is filled with your typical non-committal endorsement style BS, I suspect you know it, too.

Don't worry 417 claims he absolutely loves PK but just has so many doubts about his character.

 

[VladTheLimpWhaler]

So what do the psychology textbooks say about people who diagnose other people with psychiatric disorders without knowing the first thing about them?

I do not need to diagnose someone with a personality disorder to know that they have tendencies. Nor do I need to know them personally. I'm not diagnosing PK with anything, just pointing out that he has narcissistic tendencies. Whether his narcissistic tendencies constitute a personality disorder or not depends on how severe his issues are and how much they impact his personal life, and this is only for a psychiatrist to diagnose, but to people like me and you, it is irrelevant. We don't need to know whether his issues constitute a full blown disorder or not, we can plainly see them and recognize them. He is still very young, mind you. Maybe if he doesn't deal with his issues by the time he is 45 or 50 his narcissistic tendencies will develop into a full blown disorder, or maybe not. I hope for his sake he can get his personality issues under control, but you'd be hard pressed to deny that he has personality issues.

 

[E82]

This is a thread about PK's JFL event, not hockey, not sports, so my commentary is completely appropriate here. Your description of my post being "tertiary" applies to this entire thread, not just my post.

Well you still did not respond as to how you know PK personally to be able to call him a narcissist and that he stages his events just to be in the lime light. Staged an event that raised 130K in a single night and the other even he pledged 10M to the hospital and then now he staged a letter to the kids at the Montreal Hospital just so that he can announce it on instagram.

 

[Lshap]

Nope but I didn't suppose that writers entirely scripted his routine. You were there at the Gala, was PK reading from a teleprompter? (Vlad suggests he was reading from a piece of paper). Even that would not prove he wasn't involved in creating the material. PK seems like a guy who does things his own way after all, and if I were to suppose I would suppose that he was involved in the process.

Whether PK read from a teleprompter or memorized the lines, there was a pre-existing script.

Writing a show is a particular skill that begins with creative brainstorming among fellow writers, and then is completed by a single writer who turns ideas into a concrete script. Obviously multiple writers can be involved in a show, but each writes their own part. Writers do not work with figurehead hosts whispering in their ear. PK is not qualified to write a show, plus he wasn't even available while it was being written (he was on vacation).

 

[JLP]

Whether PK read from a teleprompter or memorized the lines, there was a pre-existing script.

Writing a show is a particular skill that begins with creative brainstorming among fellow writers, and then is completed by a single writer per scene, who turns ideas into a concrete script. Writers do not work with figurehead hosts whispering in their ear. PK is not qualified to write a show, plus he wasn't even available while it was being written (he was on vacation).

So if you saw no teleprompter, you suppose PK memorized a script?

Just curious are you a scriptwriter or involved in theatre/comedy?

 

[ColinO]

I do not need to diagnose someone with a personality disorder to know that they have tendencies. Nor do I need to know them personally. I'm not diagnosing PK with anything, just pointing out that he has narcissistic tendencies. Whether his narcissistic tendencies constitute a personality disorder or not depends on how severe his issues are and how much they impact his personal life, and this is only for a psychiatrist to diagnose, but to people like me and you, it is irrelevant. We don't need to know whether his issues constitute a full blown disorder or not, we can plainly see them and recognize them. He is still very young, mind you. Maybe if he doesn't deal with his issues by the time he is 45 or 50 his narcissistic tendencies will develop into a full blown disorder, or maybe not. I hope for his sake he can get his personality issues under control, but you'd be hard pressed to deny that he has personality issues.

The problem with pop-psych 101 pronouncements is that you can make them about everybody. They are completely meaningless. It's like saying someone has depressive tendencies because they are sad at times. Utter nonsense.

 

[E82]

I do not need to diagnose someone with a personality disorder to know that they have tendencies. Nor do I need to know them personally. I'm not diagnosing PK with anything, just pointing out that he has narcissistic tendencies. Whether his narcissistic tendencies constitute a personality disorder or not depends on how severe his issues are and how much they impact his personal life, and this is only for a psychiatrist to diagnose, but to people like me and you, it is irrelevant. We don't need to know whether his issues constitute a full blown disorder or not, we can plainly see them and recognize them. He is still very young, mind you. Maybe if he doesn't deal with his issues by the time he is 45 or 50 his narcissistic tendencies will develop into a full blown disorder, or maybe not. I hope for his sake he can get his personality issues under control, but you'd be hard pressed to deny that he has personality issues.

So you don't know him but know that he has narcissistic tendencies and that if he doesn't treat it will develop into a full blown disorder. Again, Can you prove that PK fakes helping little children. I want you to show proof that he stages his philanthropic events because until then you are in no position to question those actions that are actually benefiting a lot of sick children.

 

[417]

There's absolutely nothing solid in that post, and the fact that your entire reply is filled with your typical non-committal endorsement style BS, I suspect you know it, too.

I can formulate my own opinions thank you - again, i'll repeat what I said since once again, you're more interesting in being the message board tough guy, than reading people's posts.

I'm not prepared to apply everything he said about PK Subban, i'll repeat, I have trouble believe someone who is so socially-conscious and who donates so much time/money to charity, to be such a hypocrite.

But there are certain things he said in that post which I think have substance

You don't good for you...doesn't mean you have to attempt to bully people in dismissing it.

Like I said, I'm a grown *** man, i'll formulate my own opinions.

 

[417]

Don't worry 417 claims he absolutely loves PK but just has so many doubts about his character.

Actually I don't have doubts about his character...and check out my posts history on PK Subban if you think I don't support and have always supported PK.

It doesn't mean I think he's perfect or that I don't think he's playing people's emotions right now either.

I'm a PK Subban fan...I'm not a groupie

 

[Lshap]

So if you saw no teleprompter, you suppose PK memorized a script?

Just curious are you a scriptwriter or involved in theatre/comedy?

Yes, I have professional experience creating/writing shows.

 

[E82]

Yes, I'm familiar with his posting style.

"Anyone who disagrees with Idea X is a hater"

...followed immediately by...

"I'm not saying I endorse Idea X"

...concluding with...

"You're taking me out of context"

and don't forget "I love him but I am not a fanboy"

 

[VladTheLimpWhaler]

Well you still did not respond as to how you know PK personally to be able to call him a narcissist and that he stages his events just to be in the lime light. Staged an event that raised 130K in a single night and the other even he pledged 10M to the hospital and then now he staged a letter to the kids at the Montreal Hospital just so that he can announce it on instagram.

It's not about "staging" things, you are putting somebody else's words in my mouth here or something.

I do not need to know PK personally to see that he has issues with narcissistic behavior, it's as plain as the nose on his face. There are a ton of red flags with him, and he fits the classic description of narcissistic personality to a tee. Whether or not his issues constitute a full blown "disorder" is only for a psychiatrist to diagnose. It really depends on how much those issues affect his ability to lead a healthy life. For an actual medical diagnosis, you would need to know him personally, but to see that there is something wrong, you just need to be human.

I'm not in the business of diagnosing personality disorders, but I have no problems pointing out that someone likely has personality issues.

But let me ask you a question, if someone that you know for a fact is a narcissist did donate 10 million dollars to a children's hospital just to make themselves look good, how would you tell the difference between his donation and a sincere one? Honest question. What is the demarcation? Because from the impression I get, none of PK's supporters have an answer to this question. To them, anybody who donates money to children is automatically a saint, and anyone who questions it is automatically looking for reasons to dislike the donor. What a brilliant move on PK's part. If I were a narcissist, it is exactly what I would have done.

 

[E82]

I can formulate my own opinions thank you - again, i'll repeat what I said since once again, you're more interesting in being the message board tough guy, than reading people's posts.

I'm not prepared to apply everything he said about PK Subban, i'll repeat, I have trouble believe someone who is so socially-conscious and who donates so much time/money to charity, to be such a hypocrite.

But there are certain things he said in that post which I think have substance

You don't good for you...doesn't mean you have to attempt to bully people in dismissing it.

Like I said, I'm a grown *** man, i'll formulate my own opinions.

417 Do you believe PK to be a narcissist and that he stages events for the sole purpose of being in the lime light.

A simple yes or No but Vlads worthless rant was just that..I don't see how you could agree with ANYTHING he wrote if you claim to be a "neutral" fan of PK.

 

[WhiskeySeven*]

I do not need to diagnose someone with a personality disorder to know that they have tendencies. Nor do I need to know them personally. I'm not diagnosing PK with anything, just pointing out that he has narcissistic tendencies. Whether his narcissistic tendencies constitute a personality disorder or not depends on how severe his issues are and how much they impact his personal life, and this is only for a psychiatrist to diagnose, but to people like me and you, it is irrelevant. We don't need to know whether his issues constitute a full blown disorder or not, we can plainly see them and recognize them. He is still very young, mind you. Maybe if he doesn't deal with his issues by the time he is 45 or 50 his narcissistic tendencies will develop into a full blown disorder, or maybe not. I hope for his sake he can get his personality issues under control, but you'd be hard pressed to deny that he has personality issues.

Nope, I am completely, 100% sincere in my post. I'm a long time reader here so I have seen the kinds of things you post, so you calling my post the worst of all time is quite a compliment, thanks.

I'm 100% sincere in asking you to please, please, please never change your posting style or the amount of heart your pour into your posts. You're an example for us all.

Yes, I have professional experience creating/writing shows.

Guys... this should be obvious. Every show has writers. Jimmy Fallon doesn't write his own stuff - neither do the presenters at award shows. Look at the credits, there are often a slew of writers.

Which makes this absolutely absurd discussion even more silly - Subban didn't write his own jokes. The writer was on the radio, claiming that Subban nixed a lot of jokes for being too edgy or too mean.

 

[417]

417 Do you believe PK to be a narcissist and that he stages events for the sole purpose of being in the lime light.

No I do not, of course, I've said this several times...so you'll likely not capture that again. But sure, i'll play along

No I do not believe PK staged events for the sole purpose of being in the limelight.

A simple yes or No but Vlads worthless rant was just that..I don't see how you could agree with ANYTHING he wrote if you claim to be a "neutral" fan of PK.

I agree with some of the principles of what he wrote, in general, not necessarily how he applied it to PK Subban.

I don't know PK Subban personally, I'd like to think he's not what Vlad described...I'm just not as ready to dismiss it all together, because there are certain things PK has done since the trade that seem out of character from him that make me wonder.

But it doesn't mean I agree with Vlad...but again, I pointed this out, you didn't bother reading that then, doubt you will now.

 

[E82]

It's not about "staging" things, you are putting somebody else's words in my mouth here or something.

I do not need to know PK personally to see that he has issues with narcissistic behavior, it's as plain as the nose on his face. There are a ton of red flags with him, and he fits the classic description of narcissistic personality to a tee. Whether or not his issues constitute a full blown "disorder" is only for a psychiatrist to diagnose. It really depends on how much those issues affect his ability to lead a healthy life. For an actual medical diagnosis, you would need to know him personally, but to see that there is something wrong, you just need to be human.

I'm not in the business of diagnosing personality disorders, but I have no problems pointing out that someone likely has personality issues.

But let me ask you a question, if someone that you know for a fact is a narcissist did donate 10 million dollars to a children's hospital just to make themselves look good, how would you tell the difference between his donation and a sincere one? Honest question. What is the demarcation? Because from the impression I get, none of PK's supporters have an answer to this question. To them, anybody who donates money to children is automatically a saint, and anyone who questions it is automatically looking for reasons to dislike the donor. What a brilliant move on PK's part. If I were a narcissist, it is exactly what I would have done.

Hold up, do you go around judging donations made by people. If that's the case I feel really sorry for you man. You seem to be obsessed with this narcissistic thing.

The correct course of action to do especially when it involves a Celebrity that has never been involved in any sketchy or negative activities is to take his word for it until proven otherwise. So far what has PK done in his life to prove that he is a narcissist person?

 

[sheed36]

So if you saw no teleprompter, you suppose PK memorized a script?

Just curious are you a scriptwriter or involved in theatre/comedy?

I posted this earlier but here's the interview with Pat Dussault on TSN690 yesterday who wrote the script for the gala. Dussault said in this interview that any shots directed at the Habs were from the writers and not from Subban. Plus there were some jokes Subban wouldn't do.

Dussault: PK Subban was amazing to work with
http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/pat-dussault-pk-subban-was-amazing-to-work-with-1.536730

 

[Winter Eclipse]

I can formulate my own opinions thank you - again, i'll repeat what I said since once again, you're more interesting in being the message board tough guy, than reading people's posts.

I'm not prepared to apply everything he said about PK Subban, i'll repeat, I have trouble believe someone who is so socially-conscious and who donates so much time/money to charity, to be such a hypocrite.

But there are certain things he said in that post which I think have substance

You don't good for you...doesn't mean you have to attempt to bully people in dismissing it.

Like I said, I'm a grown *** man, i'll formulate my own opinions.

Read his posts again, you "grown *** man". He clearly goes far, far, far beyond pointing out "flaws" in Subban's personlity, something that was readily apparent to everyone else on this board.

You think he posted some things that have substance, then try actually being a "grown *** man" and having the intellectual honestly to present them in detail, instead of using your typical noncommittal, vague as **** non-statements.

Interesting stuff here...unfortunately, it's going to be presented as you just hating on PK Subban, but there's some really solid stuff that should at the very least make people think about this whole PK vs. Management angle.

What solid stuff are you referring to exactly?

I'm not sure I agree with all of the principles here but I'm certainly not going to dismiss them. I especially was provoked by the part about "not caring about being a good person, just looking like a good person".

Which don't you agree with?
Which do you think merit not being immediately dismissed?
What exactly provoked you about that particular passage?

Again, I'm not sure if I'm ready to apply that to PK Subban, I don't know him personally and have trouble believing someone who is so socially-conscious and donates so much time/money to charity, could be so duplicit, but it's certainly not inconceivable

What isn't inconceivable? Or conversely, what makes it conceivable in any possible sense?

Again, you post nothing of substance, just a desperate attempt to **** on Subban without actually having to back it up with specific arguments or positions.

It's pathetic.

 

[Justin11]

I don't know if Subban is suffering from narcissistic personality disorder, but what I do know is that he raised 130K the other night for the children.

Bravo again to Mr. P.K. Subban.

 

[417]

and don't forget "I love him but I am not a fanboy"

I think I used the term "groupie"