Player Discussion Stuart Skinner

[Drivesaitl]

The problem is when the guy at the other end has an average or poor series you should have a pretty easy chance of winning.

But that is the way the team is constructed. Offense first.


I don't know, I've been pretty hard on Skinner in the past but I thought he had played reasonably well since about half way through the dallas series.

I don't think hes a great goalie and the second goal was a typical skinner softy but it is what it is. I don't think its fair to scapegoat him for this series loss. Last year vs the Knights on the other hand, he was really bad and a big reason why we lost.

Fair comments all. Its an org issue that he is the starter. Unfortunately highly likely he remains the status quo. While he played somewhat better at times overall still not an ideal #1.

In cap era particularly its hard to comprehend why so many teams put so little of their cash into bonafide starters for the biggest position in hockey. Goalies are worth more than anybody. In terms of impact on seasons and playoffs. I think part of the problem in present day is goalie evaluation gets confused by a ton of statistical hubris. GM's I think veer to fans that goalies are just unexplainable voodoo and just take their shots with whatever.

But the large proportion of cup winners have ringers in net. Even in last 8, last 4 teams, everyteam had bonafide ringer starters.

 

[elmeroil]

I don't know if it's really feasible with the current cap situation but finding him a more legitimate partner would be nice so he can get more rest in the regular season and so that there is a more feasible option if he's going through a bad stretch in the playoffs.

I find this to be an odd comment, Pickard was a great backup and can easily play more games. He was solid in both playoff starts. He's a great teammate, great for Skinner and had a solid season. Not sure what else you can expect from a backup?

 

[Jimmi McJenkins]

For what it's worth. I was proud of his performance.

 

[McBigYak]

Fair comments all. Its an org issue that he is the starter. Unfortunately highly likely he remains the status quo. While he played somewhat better at times overall still not an ideal #1.

In cap era particularly its hard to comprehend why so many teams put so little of their cash into bonafide starters for the biggest position in hockey. Goalies are worth more than anybody. In terms of impact on seasons and playoffs. I think part of the problem in present day is goalie evaluation gets confused by a ton of statistical hubris. GM's I think veer to fans that goalies are just unexplainable voodoo and just take their shots with whatever.

But the large proportion of cup winners have ringers in net. Even in last 8, last 4 teams, everyteam had bonafide ringer starters.

This is his second full season in the league. Pretty unfair to say he's peaked. I do agree that it is the organizations fault he is the outright number one here though. The plan was obviously him and Campbell as a tandem.

I'd say he's been put through the ringer so much in his first two season that he very likely will build heavily on the pressure and experience he's already faced.

He was damn good to close out the playoffs. Outplayed Oettinger and was on par, if not better, than Bob.

 

[grego]

I find this to be an odd comment, Pickard was a great backup and can easily play more games. He was solid in both playoff starts. He's a great teammate, great for Skinner and had a solid season. Not sure what else you can expect from a backup?

I really like pickard and if I let my heart be the gm I would sign him for a few years as a backup.

But knob seemed more comfortable with skinner and wants to go that way. I would like whatever kind of goalie it is that knob wants in our pairing that makes him comfortable to go with the hot hand.

If you can't get one of the five elite goalies in the NHL you need a few good ones and to hope it increases your odds of one of them getting on a hot streak

 

[GOilers88]

This is his second full season in the league. Pretty unfair to say he's peaked. I do agree that it is the organizations fault he is the outright number one here though. The plan was obviously him and Campbell as a tandem.

I'd say he's been put through the ringer so much in his first two season that he very likely will build heavily on the pressure and experience he's already faced.

He was damn good to close out the playoffs. Outplayed Oettinger and was on par, if not better, than Bob.

Absolutely agree on his head to heads with Oettinger and Bobo. He showed he was just as capable. Team doesn't need a bonafide starter, because they already have one. They need to cut back his load during the season, and maintain a reliable backup.

 

[GrumpyKoala]

All I hear are excuses. They found a way in game 5 to score despite the shit ice. 2 goals combined in 3 of the 4 losses isn't going to get it done, period.

Because if your answer are awlays that we have to outscore our goaltending issue then you get exactly what we got.

 

[Spawn]

For what it's worth. I was proud of his performance.

For what it’s worth, a .901 save percentage would have been the worst save percentage of a starting goalie to win a cup since the 1980s.

Be as proud as you want. He had one good series out of 4.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

it felt like a free-for-all shooting gallery for Florida whenever he was on the ice

9-6 Oilers for high danger chances.

 

[Richard]

As a neutral, watching Skinner go side to side was ... cumbersome. I think the most obvious way the Oilers get better is with a keeper replacement. Sorry, every shot from Florida was capable of scoring that's a hard way to play.

 

[Zguy370]

For what it’s worth, a .901 save percentage would have been the worst save percentage of a starting goalie to win a cup since the 1980s.

Be as proud as you want. He had one good series out of 4.

Remember Overall, that an .898 svpct is a lot better than winning the Cup with a .907 svpct

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

But a .901 svpct is a lot better than winning the Cup with a .907 svpct

Lmao literally nobody is saying this. But at least it deletes the "Well his sv% isn't above .900" argument.

Because if your answer are awlays that we have to outscore our goaltending issue then you get exactly what we got.

In 3 of the 4 games in Florida they scored one goal or less.

 

[bone]

For what it’s worth, a .901 save percentage would have been the worst save percentage of a starting goalie to win a cup since the 1980s.

Be as proud as you want. He had one good series out of 4.

Bob had dropped to .903 before the game 7, so the gap wasn't huge. If Oilers tie it up and win in OT, Skinner may have actually caught him in save percentage.

All that said, the Oilers need to have someone that pushes him next year. I'm happy for Pickard and the year he had and hope he parlays that into another season in the NHL, but I'd rather have someone that we know could push Skinner for starts.

Really with Pickard we just had a backup that you weren't concerned about a huge dropoff especially against non-playoff teams, but weren't expecting him to ever possibly steal starts in critical games. Yes his two playoff games were decent, but he only got the net because Skinner was so bad in the games leading up to it, they had no choice whatsoever.

As for one good series out of 4, I'd disagree and say 2 out of 4, maybe even 2 and a half. He was really good Games 3-5 vs. LA (even Games 1 and 2 were a lot of weird goals). In the Dallas and Florida series', he was absolutely fine. Though there does seem to be a trend with him and bad Game 3s. The only good Game 3 on his resume in this year vs. LA.

 

[Drivesaitl]

The save % alone does not tell the story. Watch the games. Its not just the saves or goals allowed its how many times Skinner misreads a play, mishandles a puck, is awkward in form moving across, or has to throw himself at pucks because he's off his position to move across.

He wasn't even properly set on the winning shot. He lost where his goal is on that play.

2 other times in the game 7 he completely loses where the puck is (behind the net) and is on the wrong side of goal. Multiple times spilled rebounds in front of net on routine shots. Misplayed puck to Panthers multiple times.

This is just in one game 7.

Skinner when off form is so bad he makes me nervous on any shot and play in front of him. Him being on and focused more was notable in last two series but historically with him also notable he doesn't retain that form and concentration.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Absolutely agree on his head to heads with Oettinger and Bobo. He showed he was just as capable. Team doesn't need a bonafide starter, because they already have one. They need to cut back his load during the season, and maintain a reliable backup.

The Oilers lost despite having more expected goals in game 7 on basis of play. So that he's not "just as capable"

Are people seriously just basing this on save % and GAA in respective series matchups? Is there no thought that the opponent goalie is facing the best PP in the world. or that we have the best pk saving Skinner from worse numbers? Do people note opponent goalies are facing 5 of the most prolific producers in the whole playoffs all on one team? A team that Has McDrai on it?

Skinner did not outplay Ott or Bobo. Particularly did not outplay Bobo who stole at least 2 games in series and arguably 3. Again to recap in the Florida wins Bobo was sensational with a .956 save % against one of the most prolific clubs in hockey.

Lastly Skinner had none of the defensive folds games in front of him in series. The Oilres played everygame reasonably responsibly. In Contrast Florida had two games in series where they abandoned Bobo and defense, and where they played like junk.

 

[Canovin]

I hate to chirp on this guy as I always see him an 1B and he's paid to be that. He played better in the later half of the series throughout the playoffs. With that said, a good goalie with how well the Oilers players were playing wouldn't have allowed it to become a 7 games series. He has a lot of learning to do. His awareness, reflects and rebound control has got to be one of the worst I've ever seen from my 32 years of watching hockey.

 

[GOilers88]

The Oilers lost despite having more expected goals in game 7 on basis of play. So that he's not "just as capable"

Are people seriously just basing this on save % and GAA in respective series matchups? Is there no thought that the opponent goalie is facing the best PP in the world. or that we have the best pk saving Skinner from worse numbers? Do people note opponent goalies are facing 5 of the most prolific producers in the whole playoffs all on one team? A team that Has McDrai on it?

Skinner did not outplay Ott or Bobo. Particularly did not outplay Bobo who stole at least 2 games in series and arguably 3. Again to recap in the Florida wins Bobo was sensational with a .956 save % against one of the most prolific clubs in hockey.

Lastly Skinner had none of the defensive folds games in front of him in series. The Oilres played everygame reasonably responsibly. In Contrast Florida had two games in series where they abandoned Bobo and defense, and where they played like junk.

Spawn's entire argument has been based on Skinners save percentage. He's been saying .901 like it benefits 8 out of 10 Canadian families.

Skinner is also a big part of that PK. You can't credit an historic PK for protecting a goalies numbers and ignore that a goaltender is your most important penalty killer.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The Oilers lost despite having more expected goals in game 7 on basis of play. So that he's not "just as capable"

Are people seriously just basing this on save % and GAA in respective series matchups? Is there no thought that the opponent goalie is facing the best PP in the world. or that we have the best pk saving Skinner from worse numbers? Do people note opponent goalies are facing 5 of the most prolific producers in the whole playoffs all on one team? A team that Has McDrai on it?

Skinner did not outplay Ott or Bobo. Particularly did not outplay Bobo who stole at least 2 games in series and arguably 3. Again to recap in the Florida wins Bobo was sensational with a .956 save % against one of the most prolific clubs in hockey.

Lastly Skinner had none of the defensive folds games in front of him in series. The Oilres played everygame reasonably responsibly. In Contrast Florida had two games in series where they abandoned Bobo and defense, and where they played like junk.

First it's the sv% now it's the xG...

If Skinner was really as bad as people say he is this team doesn't even sniff the second round.

And we've already learned the very hard way that McDrai isn't an instant win button. Skinner wasn't even around when they fell flat on their faces against the Hawks and Jets or got creamed by the Avalanche.

There's this weird notion that the Oilers should win against every single team they come across and handily at that. They're far from a perfect team. They're a very good team and when they want to be they're arguably the best team, but there are games where they aren't at their best. I wasn't impressed at all with them in game 2 and through two periods of game 7 it looked like they were running on fumes before turning it up late in the third and coming up short like they have so many times.

People can rag on the GWG in Game 7... But since it's Skinner he would've lost in OT anyway, right?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Doing his part would have seen this game 1-1 into OT. Would they have won? Who knows.

The team as a whole didn’t have it last night. But that doesn’t excuse a bad goal against in a game where Florida generated basically nothing the entire game.

None of these current fans it seems have seen an elite Oilers goalie like Cujo and it seems like many haven't seen even Roloson. They've seen a lot of inadequate starting goalies and thus who they unconsciously compare too. Not sure where this Skinner is good enough thinking comes from. Goaltending is the most important spot in hockey, can't stress that enough, and through the entire McDrai arc the org has been fine with subpar goalies. Which is the great equalizer. The Oilers win this series in 6 games with elite goaltending. Is it more important to love Skinner and have a team have to play specifically to compensate for his weaknesses in net or to win.

People will say all day well the team only scored 1 or 2 goals, how they can win. Without realizing that in a lot of these games the factor of Skinner in net means the Oilers can't take chances or commit more offensively to get more goals. They're too busy compensating and worrying about any shot or chance allowed could go in.

Its never even noted that even a goalie like Pickard plays the puck better to D or up to forwards. Skinner has developed in that but still shaky in playing the puck, and often to opponents. At least his giveaways haven't been right in the slot lately.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

None of these current fans it seems have seen an elite Oilers goalie like Cujo and it seems like many haven't seen even Roloson. They've seen a lot of inadequate starting goalies and thus who they unconsciously compare too. Not sure where this Skinner is good enough thinking comes from. Goaltending is the most important spot in hockey, can't stress that enough, and through the entire McDrai arc the org has been fine with subpar goalies. Which is the great equalizer. The Oilers win this series in 6 games with elite goaltending. Is it more important to love Skinner and have a team have to play specifically to compensate for his weaknesses in net or to win.

People will say all day well the team only scored 1 or 2 goals, how they can win. Without realizing that in a lot of these games the factor of Skinner in net means the Oilers can't take chances or commit more offensively to get more goals. They're too busy compensating and worrying about any shot or chance allowed could go in.

Its never even noted that even a goalie like Pickard plays the puck better to D or up to forwards. Skinner has developed in that but still shaky in playing the puck, and often to opponents. At least his giveaways haven't been right in the slot lately.

Tell that to the Rangers. The Panthers made them look like swiss cheese.

 

[Salvaged Ship]

They need a vet goalie with proven history, even if it’s to back up Skinner. You need another option. Skinner may well develop into what the team needs and at his age you don’t just give up, the guy shows flashes of brilliance mixed with times of inadequacy. I kind of compare him to Corey Crawford, a guy who could be great but also let in goals at times you shake your head at. Crawford had a better overall team in front of him, the Oilers need to get more depth defensively and get rid of a few plugs.

 

[Drivesaitl]

First it's the sv% now it's the xG...

If Skinner was really as bad as people say he is this team doesn't even sniff the second round.

And we've already learned the very hard way that McDrai isn't an instant win button. Skinner wasn't even around when they fell flat on their faces against the Hawks and Jets or got creamed by the Avalanche.

There's this weird notion that the Oilers should win against every single team they come across and handily at that. They're far from a perfect team. They're a very good team and when they want to be they're arguably the best team, but there are games where they aren't at their best. I wasn't impressed at all with them in game 2 and through two periods of game 7 it looked like they were running on fumes before turning it up late in the third and coming up short like they have so many times.

People can rag on the GWG in Game 7... But since it's Skinner he would've lost in OT anyway, right?

The team outscored goaltending deficit enough times to survive rounds. The only series we got through efficiently was LA. Few teams in playoffs have ever managed to carry a starting goalie that was below .900, far below, most of the playoffs.

Seems like nobody factors in that the Oilers basically erase opponent PP's. So that Skinner is letting all these goals in EV. He's not even having to do much on pk. the club in front of him is so airtight they were legendary defending pks. The best I'd ever seen. On many pk's the team doesn't even give up a shot. Thats how good they've been.

Skinner is not the reason we got to the cup final. Would be ridiculous to say so. The team got as far as they did despite him for the most part. Of 25 games Skinner stole 2 of them. Bobo stole more than that arguably just in this one series.

 

[oXo Cube]

By series:

.910 vs LA
.833 vs Vancouver
.922 vs Dallas
.909 vs Florida

Skinner nearly blew it for the team against the Canucks but he otherwise delivered good enough goaltending to win.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The team outscored goaltending deficit enough times to survive rounds. The only series we got through efficiently was LA. Few teams in playoffs have ever managed to carry a starting goalie that was below .900, far below, most of the playoffs.

Seems like nobody factors in that the Oilers basically erase opponent PP's. So that Skinner is letting all these goals in EV. He's not even having to do much on pk. the club in front of him is so airtight they were legendary defending pks. The best I'd ever seen. On many pk's the team doesn't even give up a shot. Thats how good they've been.

Skinner is not the reason we got to the cup final. Would be ridiculous to say so. The team got as far as they did despite him for the most part. Of 25 games Skinner stole 2 of them. Bobo stole more than that arguably just in this one series.

But when the opponent does get shots through on the PK Skinner still makes the save.

It's funny how the narrative has shifted from "Well Skinner can't steal games" to "well Skinner only stole a couple games". Bob stole game 1, that's a fact. I don't think he stole any of the others. The Panthers played very well in Game 7, weird how that's overlooked. The Oilers got desperate too late into the game and they looked tired throughout most of it.

The stat that for some reason everyone is overlooking is wins. Skinner got 14 this year when it mattered the most. That's more than Roli or Smith or Koskinen or even the vaunted Cujo. As always, Skinner gets no credit when the Oilers win but all the blame when they lose. They scored 2 goals combined in games 1, 2, and 7. Tough to win any games when you score that little.

 

[Drivesaitl]

But when the opponent does get shots through on the PK Skinner still makes the save.

It's funny how the narrative has shifted from "Well Skinner can't steal games" to "well Skinner only stole a couple games". Bob stole game 1, that's a fact. I don't think he stole any of the others. The Panthers played very well in Game 7, weird how that's overlooked. The Oilers got desperate too late into the game and they looked tired throughout most of it.

The stat that for some reason everyone is overlooking is wins. Skinner got 14 this year when it mattered the most. That's more than Roli or Smith or Koskinen or even the vaunted Cujo. As always, Skinner gets no credit when the Oilers win but all the blame when they lose. They scored 2 goals combined in games 1, 2, and 7. Tough to win any games when you score that little.

Bob Stole 2-3 of the W's in this series. I would say game 1, 3, 7. Did you even see the other replays of some of the saves he made. For instance the save on Hyman while on his back where he makes a spectacular save to prevent the puck going in? On the Snet telecast the replays shown did not show plays. Other replays since made available are showing how much Bobo stoned us in game 7. He really
Was the difference.

With an average goalie the wins stat is misleading. Its a team stat. Its the team snaring the wins with even average goaltending. Conversely when guys like Cujo were stoning superstar precap teams with 2-0 W's it was largely due to him. Really almost all the W's in 97 and 98 were due to Cujo, because he was elite, making circus stops, and erasing several GA every night. Its actually possible to have goaltending like that.

In a lot of the playoff games this postseason Bobo was basically being Cujo. Erasing what were otherwise sure goals.