Player Discussion Stuart Skinner

[CupofOil]

They're 4 points out right now. Deadline is in 2 weeks.

The Preds are tied for the last wildcard.

I wouldn't discount them dealing Saros at some point but I'd be floored if it happened in the next few weeks.
You're pipedreaming if you think Saros can be had for this playoff run and I can't see the Oilers relegating Skinner to a 15-20 game backup with him being a 25 year old that is 52-26 with roughly a .910 save pct. in his first 2 seasons as a starting NHL goalie.

 

[TheNumber4]

People who don’t believe in Skinner cause he “blew it” against the Knights need some perspective. Look at what elite goalies like Hellbucyk, Oettinger, and Bobrovsky did against the Knights in the playoffs. Did you know that Skinner had the best TWO single game performances against the Knights out of all those goalies?

Helly vs Knights:
.941
.872
.896
.897
.840
(1 good start out of 5 behind Bowness defensive system)

Oettinger vs Knights
.892
.875
.400 (in relief, after Knights torched the other guy)
.949
.931
.793
(2 good starts out of 6 behind an always good defensively Dallas team)

Bobrovsky vs. Knights
.879
.692
.926
.903
.742
(2 good starts out of 5 from a 10M goalie)

Skinner vs. Knights:
.848
.968 (best performance against the Knights out of all FOUR goalies)
.826
.962 (best performance against the Knights out of all FOUR goalies)
.818
.765
(2 good starts out of 6, but the two starts we’re the best out of the whole bunch).

 

[Drivesaitl]

People who don’t believe in Skinner cause he “blew it” against the Knights should need some perspective. Look at what elite goalies like Hellbucyk, Oettinger, and Bobrovsky did against the Knights in the playoffs. Did you know what Skinner had the best TWO single game performances against the Knights out of all those goalies?

Helly vs Knights:
.941
.872
.896
.897
.840 (!!!!!)

Oettinger vs Knights
.892
.875
.400 (in relief, after Knights torched the other guy)
.949
.931
.793 (!!!!)

Bobrovsky vs. Knights
.879
.692 (!!!!)
.926
.903
.742 (!!!!)

Skinner vs. Knights:
.848
.968 (best performance against the Knights out of all FOUR goalies)
.826
.962 (best performance against the Knights out of all FOUR goalies)
.818
.765

Best two single games means essentially very little in 7 game series. This is specious. But you know that.

Nor does this account that the Oilers team was the strongest team Vegas faced in the playoffs. You're comparing apples oranges with this. Only the Oilers and Dallas were even in a class with Vegas. Winnipeg and Florida were not.

Lastly you know that these are team based metrics.

Plus its funny that you put exclamation (bad) signs on the other goalies and none on Skinner even though Skinner had 4 of the poorest save % games against the Knights.

Really its incredible that you want to look at the two games and ignore the other 4 in the series. To wit any game in the series that Skinner wasn't good he was bad.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Best two single games means essentially very little in 7 game series. This is specious. But you know that.

Nor does this account that the Oilers team was the strongest team Vegas faced in the playoffs. You're comparing apples oranges with this. Only the Oilers and Dallas were even in a class with Vegas. Winnipeg and Florida were not.

Lastly you know that these are team based metrics.

Plus its funny that you put exclamation (bad) signs on the other goalies and none on Skinner even though Skinner had 4 of the poorest save % games against the Knights.

Really its incredible that you want to look at the two games and ignore the other 4 in the series. To wit any game in the series that Skinner wasn't good he was bad.

Vegas ran over everyone, including better goalies than Skinner. Skinner's getting the sole blame for the series loss while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge that Vegas got to us just like they did every other team. You don't win the Cup by accident.

Vegas schooled the Oilers in all facets of the game.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Vegas ran over everyone, including better goalies than Skinner. Skinner's getting the sole blame for the series loss while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge that Vegas got to us just like they did every other team. You don't win the Cup by accident.

Vegas schooled the Oilers in all facets of the game.

This is absolutely false and has been rebutted several times. The Oilers outplayed the Knights in most of the games and had most of the scoring chances. By many observers the Oilers were the better team in 4 of the games played.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

This is absolutely false and has been rebutted several times. The Oilers outplayed the Knights in most of the games and had most of the scoring chances. By many observers the Oilers were the better team in 4 of the games played.

Yet the Oilers once again couldn't defend, get a save, or score a goal in a critical game 5. As soon as they lost that game the series was over. It certainly didn't help that Nurse lost his mind like a dumb twat and was a net negative throughout the entire series.

Pinning the series loss solely on Skinner is absolving the blank shooters up front and the top pairing D that Vegas bent over a barrel.

 

[TheNumber4]

Best two single games means essentially very little in 7 game series. This is specious. But you know that.

Nor does this account that the Oilers team was the strongest team Vegas faced in the playoffs. You're comparing apples oranges with this. Only the Oilers and Dallas were even in a class with Vegas. Winnipeg and Florida were not.

Lastly you know that these are team based metrics.

Plus its funny that you put exclamation (bad) signs on the other goalies and none on Skinner even though Skinner had 4 of the poorest save % games against the Knights.

Really its incredible that you want to look at the two games and ignore the other 4 in the series. To wit any game in the series that Skinner wasn't good he was bad.

It points to an ability to stifle the Knights on a level higher than Helly, Oettinger, and Bobrovsky we’re able to do. That means something when the assertion is that there’s no way he can be relied on against the Knights.

Oilers were the stronger team sure, by how much a margin in the playoffs where team defence systems can be scouted and exploited is UNKNOWN. So don’t act like regular season performances is some arbiter of team quality when the playoffs start. If that was True, the Panthers don’t even make it to the Cup finals in the first places.

But regardless my point still stands, you could make the exact same argument that all those goalies “blew it” against the Knights too. And if you were going by EYE with ZERO perspective, fans of those teams could easily say that too. As shown Helly put up 4 sub .900 performances in a row, Oettinger puts up 2 sub .900 performances in a row then gets PULLED then puts up .793 in an Elimination game, then Bobrovsky shits the bed in 3 out of 5 games against the Knights.

Ignore the exclamation marks altogether. I put those to denote how you could see that those other goalies “blew it” against the Knights too. But ignore them, cause the numbers speak for themselves anyways.

No what’s funny is you ignoring ALL stats cause it doesn’t fit your personal narrative. Skinner played elite in 2 of 6 starts. That’s better than 1 in 5 starts for Helly. Equal to 2 of 6 starts for Oettinger. And similar to 2 of 5 starts for Bobrovsky. The disingenuous ignorance of other goalies performance against the Knights is coming from you, not me.

I posted the numbers, these are the numbers and you can mental gymnastics your way around them all you want. But the numbers indicate something, not everything, but something.

 

[Drivesaitl]

It points to an ability to stifle the Knights on a level higher than Helly, Oettinger, and Bobrovsky we’re able to do. That means something when the assertion is that there’s no way he can be relied on against the Knights.

Oilers were the stronger team sure by how much a margin in the playoffs where team defence systems can be scouted and exploited is UNKNOWN. So don’t act like regular season performances is some arbitrator of team quality when the playoffs start. If that was True, the Panthers don’t even make it to the Cup finals in the first places.

But regardless my point still stands, you could make the exact argument that all those goalies “blew it” against the Knights too. And if you were going by EYE with ZERO perspective fans of those teams could easily say that too as Helly just watching Helly puts up 4 sub .900 performances in a row, and Oettinger outs up 2 sub .900 performances in a row then gets Pulled then puts up .793 in an Elimination game, then Bobrovsky shits the bed in 3 out of 5 games against the Knights.

Ignore the exclamation marks altogether. I put those to denote how you could see that those other goalies “blew it” against the Knights too. But ignore them, cause the numbers speaker for themselves anyways.

No what’s funny is you ignoring ALL stats cause it doesn’t fit your personal narrative. Skinner played elite in 2 of 6 starts. That’s better than 1 in 5 starts for Helly. Equal to 2 of 6 starts for Oettinger. And similar to 2 of 5 starts for Bobrovsky. The disingenuous ignorance of other goalies performance against the Knights is coming for you, not me.

I posted the numbers, these are the numbers and you can mental gymnastics your way around them all you want. But the numbers indicate something, not everything, but something.

The numbers indicate poor save % in 4/6 games in the series by Skinner. you of course took out of that the 2 games where Skinner did play well enough.

Unless your point is that you're being specious no valid point was made.

I'd ignore the exclamation points except that they indicated your bias to find fault with every goalie the Knights faced except Skinner.

Look, I don't ignore that if the Oilers had any of those other 3 goalies they would have beat Vegas. I doubt you'd agree but the Oilers having even an uptick in goaltending would likely tilt the series.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The numbers indicate poor save % in 4/6 games in the series by Skinner. you of course took out of that the 2 games where Skinner did play well enough.

Unless your point is that you're being specious no valid point was made.

But here's the thing you're missing.

Vegas did that to EVERY goalie they played, the three of which are much better than Skinner. Bobrovsky went from Conn Smythe favorite to bench warmer in a very short period of time.

 

[TheNumber4]

The numbers indicate poor save % in 4/6 games in the series by Skinner. you of course took out of that the 2 games where Skinner did play well enough.

Unless your point is that you're being specious no valid point was made.

So now you’re saying the numbers of 4 goalies only indicate ONE goalies performance? Quite the straw man you’ve concocted. Not surprising though considering the mental gymnastics you’ve used to somehow block out the performances of those other 3 goalies I posted.

 

[Drivesaitl]

But here's the thing you're missing.

Vegas did that to EVERY goalie they played, the three of which are much better than Skinner. Bobrovsky went from Conn Smythe favorite to bench warmer in a very short period of time.

You have to look at the teams in front of the goalie. The Jets and Panthers were no match at all for the Knights. Not because of there goalies but becasue of balance of play and Knights dominance. The Oilers and the Stars were the best teams the Knights faced. The SC final was anticlimactic and could've ended a sweep.

 

[TheNumber4]

Vegas ran over everyone, including better goalies than Skinner. Skinner's getting the sole blame for the series loss while simultaneously refusing to acknowledge that Vegas got to us just like they did every other team. You don't win the Cup by accident.

Vegas schooled the Oilers in all facets of the game.

Exactly. And people want to act like Skinner blowing it is why we lost. And yet all these other goalies “blew it” on the same level or worse.

 

[Drivesaitl]

So now you’re saying the numbers of 4 goalies only indicate ONE goalies performance? Quite the straw man you’ve concocted. Not surprising though considering the mental gymnastics you’ve used to somehow block out the performances of those other 3 goalies I posted.

You mean all those goalies that are far better than Skinner. YOU are the one doing mental gymnastics if you think Skinner is somehow better than any of them. Again, if you put any of those other 3 goalies in the Oilers net last spring we win the SC.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You have to look at the teams in front of the goalie. The Jets and Panthers were no match at all for the Knights. Not because of there goalies but becasue of balance of play and Knights dominance. The Oilers and the Stars were the best teams the Knights faced. The SC final was anticlimactic and could've ended a sweep.

I would argue the Stars weren't a match for the Knights either, but you already know my stance on them.

Point is they won the Cup by blitzing everyone they came across. And again, the top pairing of Ceci/Nurse got absolutely wrecked. I don't know why Nurse doesn't get more flak for that abysmal series he had.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Exactly. And people want to act like Skinner blowing it is why we lost. And yet all these other goalies “blew it” on the same level or worse.

That Keith is the only agreeing with you should give you pause for effect.

His view on the series has been rebutted 100X, by countless posters here.

 

[TheNumber4]

You mean all those goalies that are far better than Skinner. YOU are the one doing mental gymnastics if you think Skinner is somehow better than any of them. Again, if you put any of those other 3 goalies in the Oilers net last spring we win the SC.

And you know that we’d win with those goalies in our net, how? When numbers show that they too got absolutely torched against the Knights in their respective playoffs series. I’m not saying Skinner is a guarantee to a Cup and will beat the Knights by the way, you are saying any of those 3 but Skinner IS the path guaranteed. I don’t know, that statement seems like more mental gymnastics than what I’m doing which is just posting the legit factual numbers of what actually happened. You can agree or disagree with my framing of the numbers though, but the numbers still are what they are.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

That Keith is the only agreeing with you should give you pause for effect.

His view on the series has been rebutted 100X, by countless posters here.

RNH, Hyman and Kane combined for two goals that series. Warren Foegele had as many goals as all of them put together. They generated zero ES goals in the pivotal game 5, their top pairing got shellacked.

But no it was only Skinner the reason they lost.

 

[TheNumber4]

That Keith is the only agreeing with you should give you pause for effect.

His view on the series has been rebutted 100X, by countless posters here.

He’s not though. There’s plenty of Skinner supporters around here that understand that sometimes you just have to go with your best bet and that that bet isn’t a dumb one, including the entirety of Oilers media which includes the Cult of Hockey, Oilers Nation, Got Yer Back, and now even TSN/Sportsnet guys are on board with Skinner being a viable bet for the playoffs.

That tends to happen when a goalie puts up a long stretch of performance that has him breaking all time records from Fuhr, getting Team Canada consideration chatter, and getting All Star of the Month nods. But keep ignoring all that and the stats to continue saying he sucks.

 

[mcdingdong]

Skinner is an above-average starting goalie. The stats prove it. The eye test (provided he didn't kick your dog and you think every backdoor missile is somehow stoppable, lol) proves it. He is still growing into the starting role. Reading drivel like, for example, he cost us a Stanley Cup last season is so predictable from some but is obvious bait.
All this talk about the Vegas series - does nobody else remember how our man to man got absolutely torched and left Knights wide open backdoor/in slot? We might have had the edge in chance volume but the quality of the chances allowed tilted strongly in Vegas' favour. Some posters in here ragging on Skinner were also blaming Woodcroft's system and inability to adjust...well which was it?
It is wild the lengths people will go to in order to dump on a player they don't like for whatever reason.

 

[harpoon]

Exactly. And people want to act like Skinner blowing it is why we lost. And yet all these other goalies “blew it” on the same level or worse.

I got a D on my math test dad. But you’ll be relieved to know that Sally and Johnny also got Ds. And they usually get a better score than me. So if you think about it, this is actually a win for me.

I mean if that argument makes you feel better then so be it, but at the end of the day a D is still a D. Like all Oiler fans I watched the Vegas (and LA) series closely. Skinner gave up a bunch. And he gave them up at terrible times and looked bad doing it. Since the club has no money to upgrade (and unless it was a clear upgrade it might cause dressing room problems), and Pickard and Campbell are the only other options currently in the organization, all we can do is hope that Skinner doesn’t shit the bed like he did last year.

 

[TheNumber4]

I got a D on my math test dad. But you’ll be relieved to know that Sally and Johnny also got Ds. And they usually get a better score than me. So if you think about it, this is actually a win for me.

I mean if that argument makes you feel better then so be it, but at the end of the day a D is still a D. Like all Oiler fans I watched the Vegas (and LA) series closely. Skinner gave up a bunch. And he gave them up at terrible times and looked bad doing it. Since the club has no money to upgrade (and unless it was a clear upgrade it might cause dressing room problems), and Pickard and Campbell are the only other options currently in the organization, all we can do is hope that Skinner doesn’t shit the bed like he did last year.

The takeaway from those numbers is that you could have also come away watching as a Stars, Panthers, or Jets fan and saw your goalie “blow it”. This speaks to not those goalies quality but the quality of the Knights and their ability to make all goalies look like trash. It also disproves that Skinner blew it on some unique level against them. Nothing unique about it when even guys with those types of reputations get torched.

You want to act like this is some irrelevant comparison cause of your metaphor. But these numbers and this type of analysis is a shit load better than just saying he gave up a bunch and blew it, based on zero perspective of how strong that Knights team was against even the best goalies in this League.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

The takeaway from those numbers is that you could have also come away watching as a Stars, Panthers, or Jets fan and saw your goalie “blow it”. This speaks to not those goalies quality but the quality of the Knights and their ability to make all goalies look like trash. It also disproves that Skinner blew it on some unique level against them. Nothing unique about it when even guys with those types of reputations get torched.

You want to act like this is some irrelevant comparison cause of your metaphor. But these numbers and this type of analysis is a shit load better than just saying he gave up a bunch and blew it, based on zero perspective of how strong that Knights team was against even the best goalies in this League.

Maybe the Knights were just a better team than we were.

Or maybe it's Skinner's fault the majority of our forwards went ice cold.

 

[Zguy370]

You mean all those goalies that are far better than Skinner. YOU are the one doing mental gymnastics if you think Skinner is somehow better than any of them. Again, if you put any of those other 3 goalies in the Oilers net last spring we win the SC.

Pretty well. Even Holland figured that out by desperately breaking the bank on an unproven No.1 starter

 

[TheNumber4]

Maybe the Knights were just a better team than we were.

Or maybe it's Skinner's fault the majority of our forwards went ice cold.

If by saying “team” you are including coaching and systems as well as the players. Then yes they were better in a series that went nearly the distance in 6 games. Whether that is primarily the fault of Skinner or the forwards can’t really be determined. You lose by a 1000 cuts and you win with a 1000 roses. So yeh it’s a team effort that includes every factor that goes into a team.

 

[TheNumber4]

Pretty well. Even Holland figured that out by desperately breaking the bank on an unproven No.1 starter

You think the Campbell signing supports the idea of needing to break the bank on a goalie? Lol. In fact it proves the exact opposite.