Player Discussion Stuart Skinner

[Drivesaitl]

Guys went cold, but hard to argue. He put up a top ten worst performance of all time stats wise.

He was also a rookie too, so I feel for him

Screwing up the Campbell signing puts this team in such a hole. 5 million in potential upgrades just being wasted.

If this team is serious, you trade him with a future first to get rid of the contract

Skinner is only fine if this team plays almost perfect D, like they did in the streak.

They have to commit or they are not winning anything. Can't be loosy goosy with him back there

He did make some great saves during the streak and helped us win a couple for sure. He is too slow for my liking though. He is easy to beat when you get him moving and he has a hard time swallowing pucks

This gets stated a lot but the best time for a goalie to come into playoffs is as a relative unknown that isn't scouted that teams don't know tendencies for. This has been the case since I watched Ken Dryden sweep the playoffs and get the Habs another cup. Even toppling a Bruins team that was on top of their game and that had Esposito, Orr etc in prime.

For the young upstart goalie theres no pressure. Just ambition and success.

You're correct that Skinner is too slow but not just moving across but from butterfly to standup Skinner is slow. Skinner also has clumsy edges and his move across is not perfected. Quite often he slides further, or less, than intended on his moves across. Sometimes he ends up sprawling in the slide because he's fallen down. Clumsy goalie.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Mike Smith was better than Markstrom but that's not really saying much. Both goalies were not very good and Colorado was more than happy to take advantage. Mike Smith rightly retired after that year. if Calgary wins game 4 after that dreadful long bomb they probably go on to win the series.

As for Skinner, the thing people seem to forget in regards to him is that he's not supposed to be the starter at this point in his career. He's supposed to be coming along slowly while Campbell handles the load but Campbell can barely crack it in the AHL. If anything's to be blamed for the Oilers not winning the Cup it's whoever scouted Campbell and decided that he should be the guy.

The reason the Oilers beat LA twice and Calgary was because they were the better team when it counted. They were not the better team against Vegas and especially not against Colorado.

Goalies often enough can hit the league hot. Goaltending is an odd position and not like other positions where progress can be linear with time. Its even arguable that many goalies have been their best in say first seasons and either don't progress from there or regress. Elite goalies are another matter and they continue to build on game. Skinner is not at all an elite goalie. He has no elite skillsets. There is not one thing that Skinner excels at as a goalie.

In anycase there is no age effect with goalies as their is with other players. There is no notable or significant progress with age and experience by and large.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/when-nhl-players-peak-hockey-metrics-1.2646054

For goalies, they found that:

• Performance varies little by age.

So that the notion that Skinner is just going to get magically better with age is unfounded. Goalies that do tend to get better usually have a tireless work ethic and work and hone their skills incessantly. Skinner on his own account, his own statement has been lazy when it comes to athleticism. He describes vomiting doing a flight of stairs.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Goalies often enough can hit the league hot. Goaltending is an odd position and not like other positions where progress can be linear with time. Its even arguable that many goalies have been their best in say first seasons and either don't progress from there or regress. Elite goalies are another matter and they continue to build on game. Skinner is not at all an elite goalie. He has no elite skillsets. There is not one thing that Skinner excels at as a goalie.

I don't think anyone on Earth would argue Skinner is an elite goalie. And quite frankly we don't need an elite goalie. If we do then perhaps we aren't as good as advertised.

Not that any of this discussion matters, no better goalie is coming in. Skinner/Pickard is the duo and if you want to roast someone for that go after the GM who decided that Campbell was the guy who was going to lead us to glory.

 

[DaGap]

I do want an experienced vet for the backup role going into the playoffs. Someone who has been there and can help Skinner handle the waves

 

[Drivesaitl]

I don't think anyone on Earth would argue Skinner is an elite goalie. And quite frankly we don't need an elite goalie. If we do then perhaps we aren't as good as advertised.

Not that any of this discussion matters, no better goalie is coming in. Skinner/Pickard is the duo and if you want to roast someone for that go after the GM who decided that Campbell was the guy who was going to lead us to glory.

You don't seem to understand the intersection of NHL parity and this being magnified in playoffs when only the 50% better clubs are performing.

Goalies can often be an edge in such series. The NHL being a capped league, with parity, the differences between winning and losing among relatively equal clubs can often be goaltending. Hot or good goaltending can often steam through the league all the way to the final. been countless examples of this historically.

The way the NHL is setup as a capped parity league theres less degree of dominance whereby a club would just win it all without adequate goaltending. Cases where it has occured would be Chicago who were dominant, Post cap we also find that theres basically no SC repeats. Teams no longer win in consecuitive seasons. This another indication that parity is more at hand.

 

[CupofOil]

Markstrom aside from game 1 was great. Sure we broke him after that. Mike Smith stood on his head thru LA and Calgary series tho. Something Skinner couldn't do. He single handedly tried to lose the series against LA and Vegas. As far as I remember Vegas series, Hill won them the series with the ref and league helping them as well. Otherwise the Oilers matched firepower with Vegas firepower

Great so what's your solution then? Still haven't seen any of the Skinner haters come up with one.

BTW, you know who shit the bed in the playoffs last season as well? Helleybuck and Oettinger.
The Oilers didn't have any firepower in the Vegas series. The bottom 6 barely scored and Hyman, RNH and Kane were non-existent. The Draisaitl line got demolished by the Eichel line. Crazy that people pin that series entirely on Skinner.

Also, I loved Smith in this time here but he did not "stand on his head" in the Calgary series. Markstrom just outsucked him in that series.

 

[Canovin]

Great so what's your solution then? Still haven't seen any of the Skinner haters come up with one.

BTW, you know who shit the bed in the playoffs last season as well? Helleybuck and Oettinger.

Pay what's required for Saros. Campbell also goes the other way.

Okay? And? You take Skinner over Helle or Oettinger? I would feel much safer with those guys in net than Skinner going into the playoffs.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

You don't seem to understand the intersection of NHL parity and this being magnified in playoffs when only the 50% better clubs are performing.

Goalies can often be an edge in such series. The NHL being a capped league, with parity, the differences between winning and losing among relatively equal clubs can often be goaltending. Hot or good goaltending can often steam through the league all the way to the final. been countless examples of this historically.

The way the NHL is setup as a capped parity league theres less degree of dominance whereby a club would just win it all without adequate goaltending. Cases where it has occured would be Chicago who were dominant, Post cap we also find that theres basically no SC repeats. Teams no longer win in consecuitive seasons. This another indication that parity is more at hand.

Of course goalies can be the edge in a series.

I can't stress this enough. Skinner isn't supposed to be the starter. He wasn't last year and he's not supposed to be the starter this year.

Colorado proved you don't need elite goaltending to win the Cup if you consistently blow your opposition away. The Oilers most certainly have the firepower to do that.

Pay what's required for Saros. Campbell also goes the other way.

Okay? And? You take Skinner over Helle or Oettinger? I would feel much safer with those guys in net than Skinner going into the playoffs.

Have you checked the standings lately? Or Saros' stats?

 

[CupofOil]

Pay what's required for Saros. Campbell also goes the other way.

Okay? And? You take Skinner over Helle or Oettinger? I would feel much safer with those guys in net than Skinner going into the playoffs.

Sure, break the bank for Saros but that's not exactly very realistic I don't think. Plus, you know what Saros's save pct. is this season? That's right, lower than Skinner's.

I'm not saying that I'd take Skinner over those two but if you're using last year's playoffs as a strike against him, I'm showing you that even the elite goalies bomb in the playoffs as well. Plus that was Skinner's 1st playoffs which is notable.
Also, as I mentioned before, the Oilers got very little from their bottom 6 and the Draisaitl,Kane, Hyman, RNH quartet were non-existent relative to their normal play and in fact, the Draisaitl line was a major liability in the Vegas series so it's wasn't ALL on Skinner.

I get being skeptical of Skinner performing in the playoffs since he doesn't have the track record but I'm just not seeing the realistic upgrades out there outside of Saros who would take an absolute haul to acquire and a massive contract after next season.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Of course goalies can be the edge in a series.

I can't stress this enough. Skinner isn't supposed to be the starter. He wasn't last year and he's not supposed to be the starter this year.

Colorado proved you don't need elite goaltending to win the Cup if you consistently blow your opposition away. The Oilers most certainly have the firepower to do that.


Have you checked the standings lately? Or Saros' stats?

Saros is a goalie that has showed elite form and elite stats. That doesn't disappear. Sometimes good goalies have good and bad ebbs and has a lot to do with team, injury etc. Oilers would only be able to get a goalie the quality of Saros when hes struggling.

as recenctly as last season Saros had a save % of .919. Career he's .917. I would take a bet on that guy anytime over what we have.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Saros is a goalie that has showed elite form and elite stats. That doesn't disappear. Sometimes good goalies have good and bad ebbs and has a lot to do with team, injury etc. Oilers would only be able to get a goalie the quality of Saros when hes struggling.

as recenctly as last season Saros had a save % of .919. Career he's .917. I would take a bet on that guy anytime over what we have.

I would too.

But why would Nashville trade him when they're tied for the last WC spot?

 

[CupofOil]

Saros is a goalie that has showed elite form and elite stats. That doesn't disappear. Sometimes good goalies have good and bad ebbs and has a lot to do with team, injury etc. Oilers would only be able to get a goalie the quality of Saros when hes struggling.

as recenctly as last season Saros had a save % of .919. Career he's .917. I would take a bet on that guy anytime over what we have.

If the choice is Saros or Skinner, you take Saros of course but how realistic is it? Also, he's getting paid top of the market goalie money after next season which isn't something the Oilers can afford and keep their core intact.

 

[AM]

Why would you quote a guy talking about the 2 goals Bjugstad scored to make some point about the Keller goal?
It makes it sound like you're saying Skinner was screened on the 2nd Bjugstad goal.

I try to forget most goals against. My apologies. I didn’t think skinner had a good night but the team rescued him. That’s what teams do.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I would too.

But why would Nashville trade him when they're tied for the last WC spot?

I don't see the Preds making it but I don't see them moving Saros either. I guess it was just hypothetical consideration. AFter the Preds moved Ekholm last season, and then they ended up making playoffs their fans would go nuts if they made the same kind of idiotic decisions this season.

We're fortunate to have Ekholm. If only because Preds org f***ed up.

If the choice is Saros or Skinner, you take Saros of course but how realistic is it? Also, he's getting paid top of the market goalie money after next season which isn't something the Oilers can afford and keep their core intact.

Its not realistic. Saros isn't going anywhere is my impression. Just hypothetical, as noted.

 

[AM]

Goalies often enough can hit the league hot. Goaltending is an odd position and not like other positions where progress can be linear with time. Its even arguable that many goalies have been their best in say first seasons and either don't progress from there or regress. Elite goalies are another matter and they continue to build on game. Skinner is not at all an elite goalie. He has no elite skillsets. There is not one thing that Skinner excels at as a goalie.

In anycase there is no age effect with goalies as their is with other players. There is no notable or significant progress with age and experience by and large.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/when-nhl-players-peak-hockey-metrics-1.2646054

For goalies, they found that:

• Performance varies little by age.

So that the notion that Skinner is just going to get magically better with age is unfounded. Goalies that do tend to get better usually have a tireless work ethic and work and hone their skills incessantly. Skinner on his own account, his own statement has been lazy when it comes to athleticism. He describes vomiting doing a flight of stairs.

Knowing your inclinations helps you avoid the negative consequences of them. Know thy self is the first rule of getting better.

 

[Canovin]

Sure, break the bank for Saros but that's not exactly very realistic I don't think. Plus, you know what Saros's save pct. is this season? That's right, lower than Skinner's.

I'm not saying that I'd take Skinner over those two but if you're using last year's playoffs as a strike against him, I'm showing you that even the elite goalies bomb in the playoffs as well. Plus that was Skinner's 1st playoffs which is notable.
Also, as I mentioned before, the Oilers got very little from their bottom 6 and the Draisaitl,Kane, Hyman, RNH quartet were non-existent relative to their normal play and in fact, the Draisaitl line was a major liability in the Vegas series so it's wasn't ALL on Skinner.

I get being skeptical of Skinner performing in the playoffs since he doesn't have the track record but I'm just not seeing the realistic upgrades out there outside of Saros who would take an absolute haul to acquire and a massive contract after next season.

At this point breaking the bank for Saros is better than drafting the likes of Bourgault or whoever and we also trade Campbell in the process. That's a big win.

I have said this many times, if Skinner is a 1B there isn't much to criticize about his game. He's good enough for regular season games. Under high pressure and the pace is much faster, Skinner isn't it. We need someone like Saros who is likely isn't re-signing with Nashville that's why his name has been coming up more often, who has been elite for at least 5 years now to be the Oilers starting goalie.

.902% is bad for Saros considering the team he is playing for. Under the Oilers defense and system, his number would be like his usual .920

 

[Drivesaitl]

Of course goalies can be the edge in a series.

I can't stress this enough. Skinner isn't supposed to be the starter. He wasn't last year and he's not supposed to be the starter this year.

Colorado proved you don't need elite goaltending to win the Cup if you consistently blow your opposition away. The Oilers most certainly have the firepower to do that.


Have you checked the standings lately? Or Saros' stats?

Colorado had Kuemper for most of the playoffs. They lost him in the Conference final. By then Colorado had gotten over their usual playoff jitters and had already won two series. Kuemper put up elite numbers that season for Colorado.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

At this point breaking the bank for Saros is better than drafting the likes of Bourgault or whoever and we also trade Campbell in the process. That's a big win.

I have said this many times, if Skinner is a 1B there isn't much to criticize about his game. He's good enough for regular season games. Under high pressure and the pace is much faster, Skinner isn't it. We need someone like Saros who is likely isn't re-signing with Nashville that's why his name has been coming up more often, who has been elite for at least 5 years now to be the Oilers starting goalie.

.902% is bad for Saros considering the team he is playing for. Under the Oilers defense and system, his number would be like his usual .920

But why does Nashville trade him?

Colorado had Kuemper for most of the playoffs. They lost him in the Conference final. By then Colorado had gotten over their usual playoff jitters and had already won two series. Kuemper put up elite numbers that season for Colorado.

Colorado completely dominated every single team they came up against. Put Skinner or Mike Smith on that team and the result is the same.

 

[Canovin]

But why does Nashville trade him?


Colorado completely dominated every single team they came up against. Put Skinner or Mike Smith on that team and the result is the same.

I'm starting to think you just read the first 5 words and then starting making arguments right after that.

I already stated that he's likely available because he probably told the team he's not re-signing. That's why his names has been brought more often.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

I'm starting to think you just read the first 5 words and then starting making arguments right after that.

I already stated that he's likely available because he probably told the team he's not re-signing. That's why his names has been brought more often.

But Nashville is still in the playoff hunt. Even if he doesn't re-sign why would they give up on the season?

 

[Canovin]

But Nashville is still in the playoff hunt. Even if he doesn't re-sign why would they give up on the season?

They traded Ekholm when they were in the playoffs race

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

They traded Ekholm when they were in the playoffs race

They were 8 points out when they dealt him.

 

[Canovin]

They were 8 points out when they dealt him.

They're 4 points out right now. Deadline is in 2 weeks.

 

[Drivesaitl]

But why does Nashville trade him?


Colorado completely dominated every single team they came up against. Put Skinner or Mike Smith on that team and the result is the same.

No, serious, no.

This belies any understanding of how playoffs go or how teams get on a playoff role.

Put a goalie like Saros in Oilers cage last season and they win the cup.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

They're 4 points out right now. Deadline is in 2 weeks.

Noooo they're tied with STL for the final wild card spot.

No, serious, no.

This belies any understanding of how playoffs go or how teams get on a playoff role.

Put a goalie like Saros in Oilers cage last season and they win the cup.

Problem is you have to make the deal work.

There's no guarantee that Saros is the immediate upgrade the Oilers need. See: Last year's Kings.