Proposal: Stl-TB

[MissouriMook]

As excited as I am to watch Parayko's development, Kucherov is elite already. The only way I see TB entertaining this is if they feel they won't be able to keep Kucherov, Drouin, Johnson, & Palat long term,, And they feel this is the best possible long term return.

That's a lot of if's. I don't see TB keeping all those guys long term as it's just too much money.

I'd hate to see Parayko leave but Kucherov is worth it.

I'd have to agree with pretty much all of this. Tampa is my #2 team, and I've felt all along that Palat was going to be the odd man out of the salary equation, but some TB posters apparently believe that it might be Johnson. It will be interesting to see how all of this plays out, but I can't see them walking away from a sure thing like Kucherov even for the enticing prospects of a player like Parayko.

 

[tjs*]

Yeah, Kucherov isn't going anywhere and neither is Drouin unless his attitude or contract demands become too much to deal with. If things break right for us there's a chance we can keep Drouin and all three Triplets by losing Killorn in addition to Filppula and Garrison - basically some combination of the Triplets each signing at a small discount, the cap going up a decent amount, and/or Yzerman somehow moving Filppula without retaining much if any salary would have to occur. If not we're probably looking at losing Palat or Johnson; our board is pretty split on who that would be.

 

[go4hockey]

St Louis: Nikita Kucherov (RFA) & Andrej Sustr

Tampa Bay: Colton Parayko & 2nd round pick 2017

Stl: Tarasenko gets a Russian winger to light it up with, downgrade heavily on D but replace Parayko with Sustr

Tb: after Hedman, Stamkos, Killorn, Namestnikov signings struggling to find right deal for kuchy give up 2nd best offensive player and in return receive stud D man to play next to Hedman or Stralsy

This is a good offer but no way will the Blues move Parayko.

 

[Spektre]

This is a good offer but no way will the Blues move Parayko.

Parayko had a great rookie year. He could very well wind up a 30 minute defenceman. In all honesty Parayko is somewhat of a luxury because of Pietrangelo. You would have to come up with a better position than simply saying the Blues wouldn't part with Parayko. Even if Shattenkirk is moved Parayko is 2nd behind Pietrangelo.

Kucherov is 23 and already elite. I'd have to question how much you've watched Kutcherov. Not only is he an elite player, he goes off the charts in the playoffs. Here's how I'll put this in more context for Blues' fans. Would you trade Parayko for Tarasenko? Kucherov is right there with Tarasenko. I'd even say Kucherov is more dynamic but Tarasenko has the better shot.

Parayko projects to be very very good but with Pietrangelo anchoring the RHD I trade Parayko all day long for Kucherov.

 

[2020 Cup Champions]

Parayko had a great rookie year. He could very well wind up a 30 minute defenceman. In all honesty Parayko is somewhat of a luxury because of Pietrangelo. You would have to come up with a better position than simply saying the Blues wouldn't part with Parayko. Even if Shattenkirk is moved Parayko is 2nd behind Pietrangelo.

Kucherov is 23 and already elite. I'd have to question how much you've watched Kutcherov. Not only is he an elite player, he goes off the charts in the playoffs. Here's how I'll put this in more context for Blues' fans. Would you trade Parayko for Tarasenko? Kucherov is right there with Tarasenko. I'd even say Kucherov is more dynamic but Tarasenko has the better shot.

Parayko projects to be very very good but with Pietrangelo anchoring the RHD I trade Parayko all day long for Kucherov.

And in all fairness, if we could get Kucherov to put ~300 on net he might hit 40 goals, too (nevermind his playoff resume).

 

[abel17]

Parayko had a great rookie year. He could very well wind up a 30 minute defenceman. In all honesty Parayko is somewhat of a luxury because of Pietrangelo. You would have to come up with a better position than simply saying the Blues wouldn't part with Parayko. Even if Shattenkirk is moved Parayko is 2nd behind Pietrangelo.

Kucherov is 23 and already elite. I'd have to question how much you've watched Kutcherov. Not only is he an elite player, he goes off the charts in the playoffs. Here's how I'll put this in more context for Blues' fans. Would you trade Parayko for Tarasenko? Kucherov is right there with Tarasenko. I'd even say Kucherov is more dynamic but Tarasenko has the better shot.

Parayko projects to be very very good but with Pietrangelo anchoring the RHD I trade Parayko all day long for Kucherov.

It's like a few other Blues posters have alluded to though, the cap doesn't work. Value is fair and Kucherov is amazing but Blues would then need to resign Shatty AND pay Kucherov the $7 million he deserves.

 

[Majorityof1]

There is no denying Kucherov is a great player. I think the comparisons to Tarasenko are a little much, but he is none the less without a doubt one of the top 25 wings in hockey.

The thing that worries me if we traded for him, aside from our top 6's size, would be how good he is removed from the triplets. I have watched a lot of TB the past several seasons. I was living in Orlando and had a good friend who was a TB fanatic. My impression of the triplets was always really good players who had insane chemistry that elevated them to superstars. Kucherov is almost always joined at the hip to Johnson, and to a lesser extent Palat.

How good is he without those guys? That's a legitimate question for Tampa fans. Johnson and Palat missed some time this year. How does he do when forced to play without them? Having two great playmakers like those guys to pair with him is something the Blues just don't have lying around. We can give him Fabbri and Stastny, but who knows if the same chemistry will spark.

 

[Dbrownss]

Parayko had a great rookie year. He could very well wind up a 30 minute defenceman. In all honesty Parayko is somewhat of a luxury because of Pietrangelo. You would have to come up with a better position than simply saying the Blues wouldn't part with Parayko. Even if Shattenkirk is moved Parayko is 2nd behind Pietrangelo.

Kucherov is 23 and already elite. I'd have to question how much you've watched Kutcherov. Not only is he an elite player, he goes off the charts in the playoffs. Here's how I'll put this in more context for Blues' fans. Would you trade Parayko for Tarasenko? Kucherov is right there with Tarasenko. I'd even say Kucherov is more dynamic but Tarasenko has the better shot.

Parayko projects to be very very good but with Pietrangelo anchoring the RHD I trade Parayko all day long for Kucherov.

Kucherov would also be 2nd to Tarasenko....

Personally I'd rather have Pietrangelo and Parayko on the ice for 50 minutes a night. We wouldn't be able to keep Shattenkirk when Kucherov got his extention so our RHD goes from the best to average at best.

 

[carter333167]

No thanks.

 

[Todd1a]

Surprisingly not a terrible trade, but I don't see us sending Sustr, too.

Ya I'd agree if you are getting kucherov why would we add sustr ?

 

[Todd1a]

And no thanks I'm sure teams can offer better for kucherov

 

[542365]

It just doesn't make sense from the Blues. Wingers are the last thing we need, regardless how great they are. Trading one of our most important assets for a winger just doesn't work, along with salary not working.

 

[Vasilevskiy]

There is no denying Kucherov is a great player. I think the comparisons to Tarasenko are a little much, but he is none the less without a doubt one of the top 25 wings in hockey.

Kucherov is right up with Tarasenko, not a shot at Vlad, its just that Kuch is that good. I would say Kuch is better defensively and a bit more talented with the puck, but Vlad has the edge in shot and physical play.

Also, the triplets did not play together this season and Kucherov was our best offensive player

 

[ChuckLefley]

It just doesn't make sense from the Blues. Wingers are the last thing we need, regardless how great they are. Trading one of our most important assets for a winger just doesn't work, along with salary not working.

While I wouldn't trade Parayko, I have to ask if you have looked at what RW looks like for the Blues? When I see you post that "wingers are the last thing we need" it makes me think you haven't.

 

[Majorityof1]

Kucherov is right up with Tarasenko, not a shot at Vlad, its just that Kuch is that good. I would say Kuch is better defensively and a bit more talented with the puck, but Vlad has the edge in shot and physical play.

Also, the triplets did not play together this season and Kucherov was our best offensive player

Palat played on a separate line more than anyone. Roughly 75% of Johnson's 5v5 TOI was with Kucherov, according to behind the net. Since Johnson was injured, it works out to just over 60% of Kucherov's ice time. Palat played with Kucherov about half of his ice time. When he wasn't being centered by Johnson, he was by Stamkos. Both are a ton better than Lehtera or Steen (as a center) for Tarasenko.

I don't want to belabor the point of Tarasenko v Kucherov. Both are great players. I prefer Tarasenko a good bit and it may be bias. But I do like Kucherov and TB a lot. As I said, to me Kucherov is bolstered by his teammates. He is very good but they work so well together it takes them to another level. I didn't watch as much TB this year as in year's past, having moved away from Florida and my TB fan friend. So maybe he improved, or managed to keep the same play level when separated from Johnson this year. I still value what Tarasenko brings more in the #1 wing role.

What I value with Tarasenko is he seems to do more on his own and when it counts. He just has this incredibly clutch switch he can turn on. Its like he has an "I win" button that is good for an automatic goal but he can only use it 40 times a year. He picks the absolute best times to use it. The percentage of his goals that either tied a game or broke a tie is unreal. I don't have the stats on hand, but they showed them during Blues games and he led the league all year by a good margin in goals that tied or broke a tie. Its like 75% orAnd he does it often on his own. He is so strong on the puck and so quick with his shot, he can turn and fire a laser in a split second while being hounded.

There is a story of a game where Elliott let in a bad goal and was pissed. Tarasenko, who was in his second year at the time skated over to him and said, don't worry, we'll get it back with such confidence Elliott believed it. And within minutes, Tarasenko got it back.

I'd prefer he didn't float as much on D when the switch wasn't turned on. I wish he had the killer instinct to bury teams when they are down. If he flipped the switch more or played harder when it was off, he'd be in the conversation for best players in the world. He doesn't, and so stat-wise you can make a credible argument that Kucherov is close. But I value having that switch when it counts more than what Kucherov brings. Again, that may be bias, but there it is.

 

[Dbrownss]

Palat played on a separate line more than anyone. Roughly 75% of Johnson's 5v5 TOI was with Kucherov, according to behind the net. Since Johnson was injured, it works out to just over 60% of Kucherov's ice time. Palat played with Kucherov about half of his ice time. When he wasn't being centered by Johnson, he was by Stamkos. Both are a ton better than Lehtera or Steen (as a center) for Tarasenko.

I don't want to belabor the point of Tarasenko v Kucherov. Both are great players. I prefer Tarasenko a good bit and it may be bias. But I do like Kucherov and TB a lot. As I said, to me Kucherov is bolstered by his teammates. He is very good but they work so well together it takes them to another level. I didn't watch as much TB this year as in year's past, having moved away from Florida and my TB fan friend. So maybe he improved, or managed to keep the same play level when separated from Johnson this year. I still value what Tarasenko brings more in the #1 wing role.

What I value with Tarasenko is he seems to do more on his own and when it counts. He just has this incredibly clutch switch he can turn on. Its like he has an "I win" button that is good for an automatic goal but he can only use it 40 times a year. He picks the absolute best times to use it. The percentage of his goals that either tied a game or broke a tie is unreal. I don't have the stats on hand, but they showed them during Blues games and he led the league all year by a good margin in goals that tied or broke a tie. Its like 75% orAnd he does it often on his own. He is so strong on the puck and so quick with his shot, he can turn and fire a laser in a split second while being hounded.

There is a story of a game where Elliott let in a bad goal and was pissed. Tarasenko, who was in his second year at the time skated over to him and said, don't worry, we'll get it back with such confidence Elliott believed it. And within minutes, Tarasenko got it back.

I'd prefer he didn't float as much on D when the switch wasn't turned on. I wish he had the killer instinct to bury teams when they are down. If he flipped the switch more or played harder when it was off, he'd be in the conversation for best players in the world. He doesn't, and so stat-wise you can make a credible argument that Kucherov is close. But I value having that switch when it counts more than what Kucherov brings. Again, that may be bias, but there it is.

This one? On a side note....Hutton is going to get tired of practice

 

[Volodya Krutov]

Palat played on a separate line more than anyone. Roughly 75% of Johnson's 5v5 TOI was with Kucherov, according to behind the net. Since Johnson was injured, it works out to just over 60% of Kucherov's ice time. Palat played with Kucherov about half of his ice time. When he wasn't being centered by Johnson, he was by Stamkos. Both are a ton better than Lehtera or Steen (as a center) for Tarasenko.

I don't want to belabor the point of Tarasenko v Kucherov. Both are great players. I prefer Tarasenko a good bit and it may be bias. But I do like Kucherov and TB a lot. As I said, to me Kucherov is bolstered by his teammates. He is very good but they work so well together it takes them to another level. I didn't watch as much TB this year as in year's past, having moved away from Florida and my TB fan friend. So maybe he improved, or managed to keep the same play level when separated from Johnson this year. I still value what Tarasenko brings more in the #1 wing role.

What I value with Tarasenko is he seems to do more on his own and when it counts. He just has this incredibly clutch switch he can turn on. Its like he has an "I win" button that is good for an automatic goal but he can only use it 40 times a year. He picks the absolute best times to use it. The percentage of his goals that either tied a game or broke a tie is unreal. I don't have the stats on hand, but they showed them during Blues games and he led the league all year by a good margin in goals that tied or broke a tie. Its like 75% orAnd he does it often on his own. He is so strong on the puck and so quick with his shot, he can turn and fire a laser in a split second while being hounded.

There is a story of a game where Elliott let in a bad goal and was pissed. Tarasenko, who was in his second year at the time skated over to him and said, don't worry, we'll get it back with such confidence Elliott believed it. And within minutes, Tarasenko got it back.

I'd prefer he didn't float as much on D when the switch wasn't turned on. I wish he had the killer instinct to bury teams when they are down. If he flipped the switch more or played harder when it was off, he'd be in the conversation for best players in the world. He doesn't, and so stat-wise you can make a credible argument that Kucherov is close. But I value having that switch when it counts more than what Kucherov brings. Again, that may be bias, but there it is.

That's how I would have described Kucherov, but in the playoffs. After a very timid first round against Detroit in 2015, where he was overwhelmed by the rougher atmosphere, he then decided to embrace the physicality of the playoffs and blossomed playing a nastier game. In short, he was not afraid anymore. His clutch-ability has been outstanding since.

Regarding the linemates, Palat is viewed as a lone wolf, he plays and he's effective with anyone, that's the only conclusion you can draw with him. Johnson and Kucherov's chemistry is on the other hand very real. They both suffer statistically wise more when separated but it's certainly Johnson who's having pretty brutal numbers without the Russian. As a side note, Tarasenko's production tend to also regress when he's away from his main centerman, Lethera. So, I'm not sure WOWY stats do Tarasenko any favor. As much as we like to individualise it, Hockey is still a team sport and you need competent/on the same wavelength linemates to play at your best. Tarasenko and Kucherov are a bit different but they're both extremely good wingers.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

That's how I would have described Kucherov, but in the playoffs. After a very timid first round against Detroit in 2015, where he was overwhelmed by the rougher atmosphere, he then decided to embrace the physicality of the playoffs and blossomed playing a nastier game. In short, he was not afraid anymore. His clutch-ability has been outstanding since.

Regarding the linemates, Palat is viewed as a lone wolf, he plays and he's effective with anyone, that's the only conclusion you can draw with him. Johnson and Kucherov's chemistry is on the other hand very real. They both suffer statistically wise more when separated but it's certainly Johnson who's having pretty brutal numbers without the Russian. As a side note, Tarasenko's production tend to also regress when he's away from his main centerman, Lethera. So, I'm not sure WOWY stats do Tarasenko any favor. As much as we like to individualise it, Hockey is still a team sport and you need competent/on the same wavelength linemates to play at your best. Tarasenko and Kucherov are a bit different but they're both extremely good wingers.

That's mostly because Lehtera is the only center the Blues have who works well with Tarasenko. Statsny was centering him pretty much whenever Lehtera wasn't. Both Statsny and Tarasenko regressed in terms of production when they were together than when they were apart.

 

[Volodya Krutov]

That's mostly because Lehtera is the only center the Blues have who works well with Tarasenko. Statsny was centering him pretty much whenever Lehtera wasn't. Both Statsny and Tarasenko regressed in terms of production when they were together than when they were apart.

That's exactly where I was trying to get at. You can't fault Kucherov to regress away from his favorite center when most of the other wingers do just the same.

 

[Spektre]

Lehtera had 34 pts in 79 games. Tarasenko had 74 pts in 80 games.

It seems like the two of them have chemistry at times with short, quick, give and go passes. We're not talking about Hall and Oates here. Lehtera needs to take quite a big step forward next year. Making 4.7 million and getting to play between two of the best wingers in the game has to result in a lot better than 34 pts.

Saying all that, it's clear Tarasenko creates a lot of his own points.

 

[Hictor Vedman*]

No thanks. Not a fan of one year wonders all that much.

Lehtera had 34 pts in 79 games. Tarasenko had 74 pts in 80 games.

It seems like the two of them have chemistry at times with short, quick, give and go passes. We're not talking about Hall and Oates here. Lehtera needs to take quite a big step forward next year. Making 4.7 million and getting to play between two of the best wingers in the game has to result in a lot better than 34 pts.

Saying all that, it's clear Tarasenko creates a lot of his own points.

Tarasenko and... who?

 

[Dbrownss]

That's mostly because Lehtera is the only center the Blues have who works well with Tarasenko. Statsny was centering him pretty much whenever Lehtera wasn't. Both Statsny and Tarasenko regressed in terms of production when they were together than when they were apart.

It's actually Tarasenko who makes Lehtera useful. The whole chemistry thing died halfway through last season when the league figured them out. I'm not a big Stastny/Tarasenko guy but they played together to start 15-16 and they were good.

No thanks. Not a fan of one year wonders all that much.


Tarasenko and... who?

Oh...I heard that Schwartz guy is kinda good

 

[Spektre]

No thanks. Not a fan of one year wonders all that much.


Tarasenko and... who?

Schwartz is most likely a fringe top 10 LW overall in the NHL. It's possible Schwartz could be the most underrated player in the league. If you're among the top 10 of your position you can claim you're one of the best wingers in the game.

 

[Hictor Vedman*]

It's actually Tarasenko who makes Lehtera useful. The whole chemistry thing died halfway through last season when the league figured them out. I'm not a big Stastny/Tarasenko guy but they played together to start 15-16 and they were good.



Oh...I heard that Schwartz guy is kinda good

Schwartz isn't one of the best wingers in the game good. Sorry.

I think Kucherov is far better, but hey, what do I know.

 

[Spektre]

Schwartz isn't one of the best wingers in the game good. Sorry.

I think Kucherov is far better, but hey, what do I know.

Schwartz is a LW while Kucherov is a RW. The RW position has far more elite depth than LW. Repeating here but being among the top 10 in you're position makes you one of the best in the league. Schwartz definitely is among the top 10 LW's.