Confirmed Signing with Link: [STL] F Dylan Holloway (2 years, $2.290457M AAV) and D Philip Broberg (2 years, $4.580917M AAV) sign offer sheets with the Blues (not matched)

[PocketNines]

How so?

This is basic NHL history that it's wrong to not know actually.

The Blues signed Scott Stevens as a free agent in the summer of 1990 and the NHL took away the next five first round draft choices from the Blues (and the Caps farted them away with mostly bad picks). Five first round picks. Five. For signing a restricted free agent.

The next summer the Blues signed Brendan Shanahan, who didn't cost 5 first rounders according to his free agency classification, so instead the league corruptly ruled through corrupt arbitrator Edward J. Houston that the penalty for signing him was to cost a player who cost 5 first rounders (follow that logic).

For signing Shanahan, Lamoreillo was required vaguely buy the CBA to negotiate in "good faith" which is laughable because there was no negotiation, he asked the arbitrator to award him Stevens as a penalty. One of the greatest defensemen in the history of the game taken off the roster as a punishment for daring to use the rules correctly. So the Blues offered that their penalty should only be one Hall of Very Good player in Curtis Joseph, a HoF player in the second year Rod Brind'Amour (last forward to lead a Cup champion in ice time) and 2 additional picks each around #40 overall. But the league said how dare you try to escape punishment like that and stripped Stevens away. It was an extraordinary sports outrage on Sept 3, 1991 when it was announced and it remains one today.

That is the free agency world we used to live in and the Blues broke it and you are all welcome except for Devils fans.

 

[greybush314]

I have a feeling Kane won't be back until game 1 of the playoffs. Plus it's a long season and other players will probably go on LTIR and open some temporary space.

No way they can justify Kane staying on the ltir all season. People talk about Stone sitting out last year but he was obviously still not 100% in the playoffs. From what I've seen it's thought to be ~12 week recovery so he should be back before the new year easily. The problem the Oilers has is all the NMC's they've handed out will make moving any money almost impossible without severely damaging the teams depth.

 

[Connor McConnor]

Edm shouldnt have signed a bunch of ufas instead of taking care of thier players first. Missmanagement

They are in win now mode and those UFAs are better fits for this upcoming season to win. I had no problem with the deals, Skinner's is a 1 year no risk move. Both were relative discounts. Holloway at 2m and change isn't a big deal. Losing Broberg definitely hurts but they were playing solid D without him post early season woes.

 

[LemonSauceD]

This might be a dumb question, but can another team make an offer sheet for the same players if they offer a higher amount?

 

[Mrfenn92]

This might be a dumb question, but can another team make an offer sheet for the same players if they offer a higher amount?

No sir

 

[ManofSteel55]

Who can you trade for 4.6 mil and 2.2 mil. Thats 6.8 mil who is going to take sub par players with out wanting picks to take vontract. Especially to help edm out of a tight

If we were to match both offer sheets, we are 7.2 M over the cap right now. We can make most of that back by:

- waiving and sending down Josh Brown (1M)
- putting E. Kane on LTIR (5.125M)

This leaves us only 1.1M over the cap, with a couple of roster players that we could trade. No teams are going to do the Oilers favours, but if they can get better by taking a player for cheap, they aren't going to say no to that either.

I actually don't expect the Oilers to match the Broberg offer sheet. It's too risky, he hasn't shown enough to be worth that, and the Oilers can't have a 4.5M underacheiver. Realistically, I don't see both being kept, but it's not hard to imagine a scenario where Holloway is matched. We have to do very little to be cap compliant in that scenario.

 

[MikeyMike01]

Well darn

If it helps, the Rams were in LA originally and spent about 50 years there before moving to St. Louis.

The Chargers moving from San Diego to LA, and the Raiders moving from Oakland to Las Vegas were bigger crimes in my opinion.

 

[StreetHawk]

I think simply crying mismanagement is silly too. You have no idea what contracts were offered to either of these guys in the summer. Teams leave RFA's open all the time, usually opting to sign them near the end.

Fact is, neither player is worth what St. Louis offered. Broberg was never getting a deal near that from Edmonton, or likely any teams around the league. It behooves the player to sit on an offer if he thinks he could do better elsewhere. Broberg simply hit the jackpot this summer.

Teams always budget an amount for Non arb RFAs. Whether Edm was planning on grinding them down to lower the AAV or get a 3rd year (which Ana did before with Ryan, Terry), who knows. But, they didn't leave themselves much room, so they had to get them in close to their number.

I get Broberg taking the deal. It's significant money and way more than any contract he and EDM would have hammered out. Plus, he would in theory get to play the left side and STL has Parayko, Faulk, and Kessel who are RHD shots. With Krug's injury they have Leddy, Suter, Purenovich, and Joseph on the left side.

Holloway, a little more surprised, but when considering he's had 2 hand surgeries, if he can get a few to several hundred K more per year, I get wanting some extra security if the negotiations have been difficult with Edm. One bad slash away from a 3rd surgery, so every bit counts at the moment.

 

[barriers]

This might be a dumb question, but can another team make an offer sheet for the same players if they offer a higher amount?

No, it's now a signed and valid contract. The only thing up in the air is whether that contract will be under the Blues or Oilers

 

[LemonSauceD]

No sir

Has there ever been an instance where a team purposefully offer sheets a ridiculous amount to their rivals best player?

 

[Cup or Bust]

If the Oilers can trade someone like Ceci or Kulak, Kane is likely going on LTIR, they might still be able to match both offer sheets. People are jumping the gun thinking St. Louis has gotten these players already.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

If the Oilers can trade someone like Ceci or Kulak, Kane is going on LTIR, they will be able to match both offer sheets. People are jumping the gun thinking St. Louis has gotten these players already.

They need to be cap compliant before putting Kane on LTIR.

 

[Three On Zero]

No way they can justify Kane staying on the ltir all season. People talk about Stone sitting out last year but he was obviously still not 100% in the playoffs. From what I've seen it's thought to be ~12 week recovery so he should be back before the new year easily. The problem the Oilers has is all the NMC's they've handed out will make moving any money almost impossible without severely damaging the teams depth.

For a hernia, realistically you’re 4-8 weeks. 12 weeks max with a “conditioning” stint

 

[Mrfenn92]

Has there ever been an instance where a team purposefully offer sheets a ridiculous amount to their rivals best player?

Don’t really think so. Really hasn’t been much of a market with offer sheets through the years.

 

[thefutures]

This is basic NHL history that it's wrong to not know actually.

The Blues signed Scott Stevens as a free agent in the summer of 1990 and the NHL took away the next five first round draft choices from the Blues (and the Caps farted them away with mostly bad picks). Five first round picks. Five. For signing a restricted free agent.

The next summer the Blues signed Brendan Shanahan, who didn't cost 5 first rounders according to his free agency classification, so instead the league corruptly ruled through corrupt arbitrator Edward J. Houston that the penalty for signing him was to cost a player who cost 5 first rounders (follow that logic).

For signing Shanahan, Lamoreillo was required vaguely buy the CBA to negotiate in "good faith" which is laughable because there was no negotiation, he asked the arbitrator to award him Stevens as a penalty. One of the greatest defensemen in the history of the game taken off the roster as a punishment for daring to use the rules correctly. So the Blues offered that their penalty should only be one Hall of Very Good player in Curtis Joseph, a HoF player in the second year Rod Brind'Amour (last forward to lead a Cup champion in ice time) and 2 additional picks each around #40 overall. But the league said how dare you try to escape punishment like that and stripped Stevens away. It was an extraordinary sports outrage on Sept 3, 1991 when it was announced and it remains one today.

That is the free agency world we used to live in and the Blues broke it and you are all welcome except for Devils fans.

And there are still ppl that lick the floor Gary walks on

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

If the Oilers can trade someone like Ceci or Kulak, Kane is going on LTIR, they will be able to match both offer sheets. People are jumping the gun thinking St. Louis has gotten these players already.

That is only the case if Kane is not returning during the regular season. If Kane is returning during the regular season, they need an avenue to become cap compliant for when Kane returns.

The other factor is that Broberg has term. Ceci does not. Bouchard and Draisaitl are both subject to massive raises next season. I suspect that is a big reason why St.Louis went 2 years at an overpriced AAV, instead of going 1-year.

Lastly, Ceci will likely cost a sweetener to dump. There is very little cap flexibility in the league right now. This is the worst time of the offseason to have to move cap. Out of the few teams who do have cap space, some are budget teams who won't be in a position to take Ceci, even if they want him. So you have to factor in the possibility that Ceci might cost something like a 2nd round pick to move on from. Maybe this wouldn't have been the case earlier in the offseason when teams had more room.

Assuming Ceci does in fact cost a 2nd to move, which of these packages do you take if you're Edmonton?

Ceci 1 year @ 3.25M+STL 2025 2nd+EDM 2026 2nd (The 2nd they keep by proxy through not having to dump Ceci.)

or

Broberg 2 years @ 4.5M

 

[Mighty Makar]

If the Oilers can trade someone like Ceci or Kulak, Kane is likely going on LTIR, they might still be able to match both offer sheets. People are jumping the gun thinking St. Louis has gotten these players already.

They’ll still have to make room when Kane comes back. They should get rid of Kane and Kulak and keep Broberg and Holloway.

 

[GOilers88]

Teams always budget an amount for Non arb RFAs. Whether Edm was planning on grinding them down to lower the AAV or get a 3rd year (which Ana did before with Ryan, Terry), who knows. But, they didn't leave themselves much room, so they had to get them in close to their number.

I get Broberg taking the deal. It's significant money and way more than any contract he and EDM would have hammered out. Plus, he would in theory get to play the left side and STL has Parayko, Faulk, and Kessel who are RHD shots. With Krug's injury they have Leddy, Suter, Purenovich, and Joseph on the left side.

Holloway, a little more surprised, but when considering he's had 2 hand surgeries, if he can get a few to several hundred K more per year, I get wanting some extra security if the negotiations have been difficult with Edm. One bad slash away from a 3rd surgery, so every bit counts at the moment.

I don't disagree with you. They could and should have probably done more to create a little more of a cushion.

But the fact that these so rarely occur, let alone 2 players on the same team, is likely a reason as to why. You can be sure that this leaves an impression on managers around the league to be more aware of depth pieces. People only seem to talk about OS for big ticket players, and there's a reason it's always just laughed off.

I really don't consider it mismanagement to not have put aside 4.5 million dollars for Broberg in case he got the OS, and if it had just been Holloway getting one, they probably match it without thought. St. Louis was very savvy in the way they did this. People always just want to scream blame when things happen that they don't like. It's like some sort of self coping mechanism.

To me this is simply a hitter going down and digging for a ball and sending it into the stands. You just have to tip your cap and respect the game.

 

[Three On Zero]

They need to be cap compliant before putting Kane on LTIR.

No they don’t.

Teams can use the “Training Camp Equation” for offseason LTIR, this method allows teams to place players onto LTIR a day prior to training camp. The downside is that they cannot accrue cap during the season

 

[WetcoastOrca]

No they don’t.

Teams can use the “Training Camp Equation” for offseason LTIR, this method allows teams to place players onto LTIR a day prior to training camp. The downside is that they cannot accrue cap during the season

My bad.
Thanks for the clarification.
I guess it just bumps the problem down the road.

 

[Cup or Bust]

That is only the case if Kane is not returning during the regular season. If Kane is returning during the regular season, they need an avenue to become cap compliant for when Kane returns.

The other factor is that Broberg has term. Ceci does not. Bouchard and Draisaitl are both subject to massive raises next season. I suspect that is a big reason why St.Louis went 2 years at an overpriced AAV, instead of going 1-year.

Lastly, Ceci will likely cost a sweetener to dump. There is very little cap flexibility in the league right now. This is the worst time of the offseason to have to move cap. Out of the few teams who do have cap space, some are budget teams who won't be in a position to take Ceci, even if they want him. So you have to factor in the possibility that Ceci might cost something like a 2nd round pick to move on from. Maybe this wouldn't have been the case earlier in the offseason when teams had more room.

Assuming Ceci does in fact cost a 2nd to move, which of these packages do you take if you're Edmonton?

Ceci 1 year @ 3.25M+STL 2025 2nd+EDM 2026 2nd (The 2nd they keep by proxy through not having to dump Ceci.)

or

Broberg 2 years @ 4.5M

I am pretty confident there would be teams who would want either Kulak or Ceci and the Oilers can worry about Kane coming back at a later date if he is put on LTIR as he will likely be out for months. It's not ideal but it's manageable. We will have to see what plays out but it's not impossible.

 

[Mighty Makar]

 

[Three On Zero]

My bad.
Thanks for the clarification.
I guess it just bumps the problem down the road.

It buys management some time to try and facilitate a trade. With a fairly minor injury like Kane’s it’s purely a stall tactic

 

[Robtom18]

I think simply crying mismanagement is silly too. You have no idea what contracts were offered to either of these guys in the summer. Teams leave RFA's open all the time, usually opting to sign them near the end.

Fact is, neither player is worth what St. Louis offered. Broberg was never getting a deal near that from Edmonton, or likely any teams around the league. It behooves the player to sit on an offer if he thinks he could do better elsewhere. Broberg simply hit the jackpot this summer.

It is very much mismanagement. You know why army doesnt have this problem cause he has the cobtract ready before they go to rfa. You guys signed a bunch of ufas exoect these gus would take league min. Broberg will be getting top 4 mins and pp time thats so 4.5 for 2lhd

 

[greybush314]

For a hernia, realistically you’re 4-8 weeks. 12 weeks max with a “conditioning” stint

I think it's a hip impingement that he needs surgery