Fatass
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- Apr 17, 2017
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Is there a star player in that group? Maybe Yzerman will use some of these prospects as trade assets to get a star player? Like Vegas got Eichel. Yzerman needs to get elite guys.
Is there a star player in that group? Maybe Yzerman will use some of these prospects as trade assets to get a star player? Like Vegas got Eichel. Yzerman needs to get elite guys.
2017 is used because it is the 48 point season that's about as low as it gets.
Yzerman never started with a team THAT bad.
I don't follow Detroit much and I certainly don't have an informed opinion about Yzerman's moves. However, I will say two points about how I generally evaluate (to the extent that I do, which is limited) the work of NHL GMs:
-- I never evaluate anything until at least two full years into the GM's reign. In most cases, it takes three or four years before the "GM's team" begins to really emerge.
-- People need to stop making excuses and always focus on wins/losses and playoff appearances, because that's all that matters.
So, Yzerman has had 5 years, which should be long enough to have shown serious progress. Now, in defense of Yzerman, he inherited a pretty dreadful team with major contract issues, so it was always going to take longer than 2 or 3 years to sort all that out. And they have improved each of the past four seasons, which at least is progress.
But on the other hand, it's been half a decade, and... zero playoff games played, so that's a hard fail.
My general take would be this: Because they missed the playoffs last year -- which is a year some people thought they would/should make it --, Yzerman's status as GM right now is something like "moderate failure". I mean, this isn't a participation league -- you either win, or you're a failure. However, if the Wings have a good season in 2024-25 and just qualify for the playoffs (even if they lose 4 straight in the first round), we can surely say that Yzerman's status changes to "decent". And then if they continue to improve after that, he moves into the "moderate success" and maybe "success" categories.
The man has been GM in Detroit since April 19 2019, and in that time the team has played in a grand total of 0 playoff games and let's be honest they don't look they are making it next year either, in fact they look like they took a step back.
when you are a GM and you miss the playoffs for 5 straight years you are a failure that's an undisputed fact.
If it were any other GM in any other city, in any other sport and that GM missed the playoffs for 5 straight years that GM would get fired.
You keep saying that and completely ignore the fact, that Detroit was tanking the 2019-20, 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons. 2022-23 season was the first season that Detroit was trying to make the playoffs but they failed. Tank years gave Detroit #4th pick, #6th pick and #8th pick, it's quite clear sign that the team was progress and the top-3 pick was out of their reach.It's been 5 years for Yzerman, and 8 years overall, there comes a point where the only progress is playoffs, Detroit is at that point, how many years does Yzerman get before you see there has been no progress?
Trading Wallman and a 2nd literally for free, and then not replacing him was an awful choice.
In the words of AJ Soprano, you just revealed your own ignorance.Signing Jack Campbell and Cam Talbot was an awful choice because all it does is create a logjam in net, and yeah I know Campbell is probably going to be in the AHL but that still leaves you with 3 goaltenders that all expect NHL minutes and you can't give NHL minutes to 3 goalies that all know they are at least backups at this point.
All the good picks are under 23 years old and of those Seider and Raymond already lifted the team from basement and others are just arriving, next season Edvinsson, Berggren and Al.Johansson will be regulars. Kasper, Danielson and Mazur ain't far off and in few years Cossa, ASP, MBN and others.Yeah there is a couple good draft picks in there and I know people will point that out but again those picks have led to 0 playoff games.
Asking all of hfboards:
Does Steve Yzerman live in your heads rent free? Christ almighty.
You keep saying that and completely ignore the fact, that Detroit was tanking the 2019-20, 2020-21 and 2021-22 seasons. 2022-23 season was the first season that Detroit was trying to make the playoffs but they failed. Tank years gave Detroit #4th pick, #6th pick and #8th pick, it's quite clear sign that the team was progress and the top-3 pick was out of their reach.
Total points and PPG, points out improvement
2019-20: 39 points & 0.55 PPG
2020-21: 48 points & 0.86 PPG
2021-22: 74 points & 0.90 PPG
2022-23: 80 points & 0.98 PPG
2023-24: 91 points & 1.11 PPG
This past season Detroit didn't make playoffs due to technicality, Wings and Caps had same amount of points and Wings had total 1 win more but Caps had more regular time wins. Wings also scored more goals(9th most in NHL) and had better goal differential, Wings +4 and Caps -37. If the NHL rulebook had more common sense Wings would have made playoffs last season.
So Detroit is improving under Yzerman slowly but steadily. It often sounds like that people expected Yzerman just by appearing would magically turn Detroit to playoff team in a matter of months.
In the words of AJ Soprano, you just revealed your own ignorance.
Rumours say that Walman was causing issues in the locker room during the last stretch of the season and was healthy scratched from the final games of the regular season. And when you consider how he was dumped after the season, that doesn't make the rumours sound false. And Walman was replaced by Edvinsson, Yzerman has made clear that Ed will have big role next season.
Last season Wings started the season with 3 goalies as well and it turned out be correct decision. Husso was injured through out the whole year and Reimer couldn't catch a beachball, Hutchinson is AHL goalie and Cossa is not even ready now, let alone year ago, Lethemon was a ECHL goalie. It was the 3rd goalie Lyon who nearly helped the Wings reach the playoffs.
And now, Husso's health is still questionable and Cossa ain't ready. Campbell is a AHL goalie, who is in there just i case, if they needed to call up. That way they wouldn't leave GR without a goalie, if Wings wouldn't have 3 goalies and Husso was still injured or out of shape. They would have to start the season with Lyon-Cossa pair and GR's starter would be a ECHL goalie. This is basic team building, this also creates competition. Which means that none of them can't have any off days, play well and help the team to win, then you get minutes. This is a results driven sport, not a charity.
All the good picks are under 23 years old and of those Seider and Raymond already lifted the team from basement and others are just arriving, next season Edvinsson, Berggren and Al.Johansson will be regulars. Kasper, Danielson and Mazur ain't far off and in few years Cossa, ASP, MBN and others.
I think there comes a point where the only progress is playoffs and I think Detroit has reached that point.
Look at Seider draft he went 6 the with the top 5 picks being Hughes, Kakko, Dach, Byram & Turcotte. Redo that draft now 1 ) Hughes ( 1st in 2019 ) 2 ) Seider ( 6th in 2019 ), 3 ) Boldy ( 12 th in 2019 ) 4 ) Zegras ( 9 the in 2019 ) 5 ) Caufield ( 15 the in 2019 ). Seider, Boldy, Zegras & Caufield the 1st rd steals of the 2019 draft.It's factually true, nobody else will say it because It's Yzerman but it is the reality of the situation.
The man has been GM in Detroit since April 19 2019, and in that time the team has played in a grand total of 0 playoff games and let's be honest they don't look they are making it next year either, in fact they look like they took a step back.
Other than possibly replacing Perron with Tarasenko NOTHING Yzerman did this off season was good.
Trading Wallman and a 2nd literally for free, and then not replacing him was an awful choice.
Signing Jack Campbell and Cam Talbot was an awful choice because all it does is create a logjam in net, and yeah I know Campbell is probably going to be in the AHL but that still leaves you with 3 goaltenders that all expect NHL minutes and you can't give NHL minutes to 3 goalies that all know they are at least backups at this point.
Yeah there is a couple good draft picks in there and I know people will point that out but again those picks have led to 0 playoff games.
If it were any other GM in any other city, in any other sport and that GM missed the playoffs for 5 straight years that GM would get fired.
But It's Yzerman and Detroit so it won't happen but his track record is his track record he's missed the playoffs for 5 straight years, the team has missed the playoffs for 8 straight years, their goaltending is a mess, their defense is an overall mess, their forwards are OK.
If this team misses the playoffs again and they look like they it will be their 9th straight year and Yzerman 6th.
At what point do you stop living in denial and admit Yzerman has done a shit job?
I don't disagree, but that phase of the build up is only really beginning now. Personally I think playoffs are close to 50/50 this year, there is no doubt they should be expecting to be in the post season.. the Atlantic is tough. Not making it should be considered a failure, I don't believe any prior season that was ever even a real hope. Last season they over achieved and had brutal stretches, minimize the low points and they likely make it, with some improved goaltending and defense.
It's factually true, nobody else will say it because It's Yzerman but it is the reality of the situation.
The man has been GM in Detroit since April 19 2019, and in that time the team has played in a grand total of 0 playoff games and let's be honest they don't look they are making it next year either, in fact they look like they took a step back.
Other than possibly replacing Perron with Tarasenko NOTHING Yzerman did this off season was good.
Trading Wallman and a 2nd literally for free, and then not replacing him was an awful choice.
Signing Jack Campbell and Cam Talbot was an awful choice because all it does is create a logjam in net, and yeah I know Campbell is probably going to be in the AHL but that still leaves you with 3 goaltenders that all expect NHL minutes and you can't give NHL minutes to 3 goalies that all know they are at least backups at this point.
Yeah there is a couple good draft picks in there and I know people will point that out but again those picks have led to 0 playoff games.
If it were any other GM in any other city, in any other sport and that GM missed the playoffs for 5 straight years that GM would get fired.
But It's Yzerman and Detroit so it won't happen but his track record is his track record he's missed the playoffs for 5 straight years, the team has missed the playoffs for 8 straight years, their goaltending is a mess, their defense is an overall mess, their forwards are OK.
If this team misses the playoffs again and they look like they it will be their 9th straight year and Yzerman 6th.
At what point do you stop living in denial and admit Yzerman has done a shit job?
Problem is even if you believe that, who do they knock out?
Because in order for them to make the playoffs they probably need to be top 4, which means passing 1 of Toronto, Tampa, Florida or Boston.
Baring some MAJOR season or career ending injury I don't see it.
85% of people don't believe in facts, when you are a GM and you miss the playoffs for 5 straight years you are a failure that's an undisputed fact.
But again Yzerman won't get fired because nobody in Detroitis going to fire the greatest Red Wing to ever live next to Gordie Howe It's not going to happen he's an icon in Detroit he will be there as long as he wants, and when he moves on it will be painted as HIS call.
He's invincible in Detroit
I mean, so far he's had consistent progress and the lower levels of the minors are now stocked with players who actually have hope and not Taro Hirose, Ryan Kuffner, Mitch Callahan, and a dozen other guys who were NHL worthless.I think it's fair to say he's a lot better than the disaster that was Detroit's front office in the years preceeding him joining the organization.
But I also, we are starting to get to the stage where there are supposed to be clearer signs of the team taking the next step, and I think there's a fair amount of skepticism around if they'll be able to do so. They'll likely be able to flirt with getting a playoff spot, which is fine, but half the league .makes the post season ever year.
Wings fans in this thread seem to assume that continuous progress is a given - which is far from a certainty. Particularly when it comes to prospects - more often than not guys don't come close to reaching their ceilings. And Yzerman hasnt exactly been seamless at putting together a supporting cast for the team either
Either claim is scientifically proven as a fact where?85% of people don't believe in facts, when you are a GM and you miss the playoffs for 5 straight years you are a failure that's an undisputed fact.
But again Yzerman won't get fired because nobody in Detroitis going to fire the greatest Red Wing to ever live next to Gordie Howe It's not going to happen he's an icon in Detroit he will be there as long as he wants, and when he moves on it will be painted as HIS call.
He's invincible in Detroit
Yes, we knew that Holland and Yzerman were both very high on Seider and he was rapidly rising to and higher on internal lists. He was ranked 11th-16th on most public lists by the draft.Seider was a reach at 6, even the people discussing it during the draft said a few MAYBE had him at 8, and a number of others had him in the 15-23 range. Detroit and Edmonton were the only ones who were known to have him that high and Edmonton was because Holland had taken over for them at that point. He was not ranked 6th going into that night.
Yes, we knew that Holland and Yzerman were both very high on Seider and he was rapidly rising to and higher on internal lists. He was ranked 11th-16th on most public lists by the draft.
In his first draft as GM of the Detroit Red Wings, Steve Yzerman made a splash. The Red Wings shocked the hockey world by taking German defenseman Moritz Seider sixth overall, making him the second defenseman taken after Colorado’s Bowen Byram at No. 4.
On most lists, Seider was slated to go in the 15-20 range.
This is why he was being sarcastic to you.That sounds like a whole lot of nothing.
What concerns me with Detroit is that teams on the same timeline as them such as NJ are already competing, and now teams that have begun rebuilding recently like CHI and SJS are leapfrogging over them in the rebuild. When is it going to be Detroit's window to win? It's going to be Bedard's and Celebrini's league before you know it.
As i see it, Detroit is heading slow and steady towards bubble team territory.
MacKinnon and Rantanen were drafted in 2013 and 2015 respectively. Pretending that the Avs rebuilt from scratch after their awful 2016-17 season doesn't hold to scrutiny.
He became GM in Tampa in 2010 and his picks took a decade to win.I don't think you're gonna find much disagreement here. Fan perception of Yzerman has completely flipped since his Tampa days.