#StastnyWatch - Summer of 2014 - Part III : Time to Synchronize Synergies!!!!!!!!!!!

[AslanRH]

Do you think he would have stayed if the Avs gave him similar enough money?

Edit - Assuming that he knew he wouldn't be the number 2 center in a couple of years.

Yes, but that is just my assumption and gut feeling. I think he would have stayed to at least get another feel for how far the team could go. I don't think he'd be upset being a 3C part time 2C if it meant a legitimate shot at a cup with the only team he's played on.

Slap a limited NTC and I think possibly 6.25m would have done the trick.

 

[5280]

Yes, but that is just my assumption and gut feeling. I think he would have stayed to at least get another feel for how far the team could go. I don't think he'd be upset being a 3C part time 2C if it meant a legitimate shot at a cup with the only team he's played on.

Slap a limited NTC and I think possibly 6.25m would have done the trick.

Yeah, I thought the Avs would offer him 6.25. Haven't really read how much they offered him and don't really know if the information is even out there. Sounds from what I've gathered that the sides seemed to almost know this was coming. I wonder what the issue really was?

 

[AslanRH]

Could it have happened like that, sure anything is possible. But it's assuming a lot that they'd buy out both players. I'm not even sure if PA's could be CBO because of the timing of that contract. Nobody was going to take on 8m in salary without giving a contract back. I'm not sure Stastny would have stayed at 6.5, you have to assume more cushion for Barrie and O'Reilly, their deals could be more and I don't think they are comfortable being within 1m of the cap at this time.

PA could be a CBO and everyone is assuming tons of things after Tuesday.
- That PAP was immovable rather than the Avs looking for a semblance of value in return.
- That Stuart is going to be better than he was last year
- That Briere was just mis-used in Montreal and still has more than just a playoff performance in him
- That Iginla will still be able to keep up in the west and produce like he did on a stronger team in the East.
- ROR will be signed long term
- MacK is ready to be the 2C on a potential playoff team

It is almost all assumptions on here.


I just wanted to show that the myth that Stastny was not affordable is false. If the Avs really wanted to, they could have made it work but they chose not to.

Instead they chose to bring in a big name as a distraction to the masses and set themselves back up to be a bottom half payroll team again next season with a year buffer so it won't look like they were shedding salary for the future.

edit:

Assuming ROR and Barrie come in at 9m total.

In off-season 2015, the Avs will have 19 players signed with 15m + whatever the cap goes up in cap space.

Bigras, Siemens, Bleakley, Hishon, and Elliott are all currently potential candidates to fill the 4 empty spots and all will cost less than 2m each.

That will leave the Avs with around 8m+cap increase and a full roster. likely bottom 15 in payroll again

Can they upgrade players by taking on more cap? --- Sure.
Can they budget some for EJ, MacK, and likely a Barrie extension? ----- They had better.
Can they sign some FAs? ---- They could if any that will help are available and willing to come here (Ehrhoff 2014)

But this front office has shown poor trade practices and have yet to show they will make trades that take on salary as opposed to freeing it up.

 

[AvsRobin]

Stastny should not have been traded back in March. They were having a hell of a season and you trade one of your top guys at the time? What kind of message does that send to the other guys?

We aren't Chicago or Boston. Roy and Sakic need to do way better asset management than they have done so far.

I don't blame them so hard for keeping him if they were confident about re-signing him. If they weren't. They absolutely should have traded him, knowing how things went.

 

[5280]

PA could be a CBO and everyone is assuming tons of things after Tuesday.
- That PAP was immovable rather than the Avs looking for a semblance of value in return.
- That Stuart is going to be better than he was last year
- That Briere was just mis-used in Montreal and still has more than just a playoff performance in him
- That Iginla will still be able to keep up in the west and produce like he did on a stronger team in the East.
- ROR will be signed long term
- MacK is ready to be the 2C on a potential playoff team

It is almost all assumptions on here.


I just wanted to show that the myth that Stastny was not affordable is false. If the Avs really wanted to, they could have made it work but they chose not to.

Instead they chose to bring in a big name as a distraction to the masses and set themselves back up to be a bottom half payroll team again next season with a year buffer so it won't look like they were shedding salary for the future.

likely 15-20 million in cap space with 19 players signed and likely 2-3 players on ELCs that will fill in some of the 4 remaining spots.

Sorry to jump into the middle of your conversation, but I don't come to this same conclusion. It's a leap of logic I can't make. If they had a precedent at all of doing something like this (distracting the masses) I might understand, but IMO they have been pretty straight forward so far.

About the payroll, if they are still a "budget" team in a couple of years when we are really have a good chance at going for the cup, I might start to wonder about things, but I just don't really think Roy or Sakic would buy into a situation where they would be hamstringed by money. I just can't see any scenario in regards to the conversation on the golf course that would play out like that with Roy and Sakic involved.

 

[5280]

We aren't Chicago or Boston. Roy and Sakic need to do way better asset management than they have done so far.

I don't blame them so hard for keeping him if they were confident about re-signing him. If they weren't. They absolutely should have traded him, knowing how things went.

Why not? Every GM is trying to build a team under the same cap.

 

[AvsRobin]

Why not? Every GM is trying to build a team under the same cap.

You think we are there yet? I don't think we are in a place where we can risk losing a guy like Stastny for nothing in order to make a run at the cup. It sets our franchise back instead of taking it forward.

 

[5280]

You think we are there yet? I don't think we are in a place where we can risk losing a guy like Stastny for nothing in order to make a run at the cup. It sets our franchise back instead of taking it forward.

Definitely not saying that we are on their level yet, just pointing out that they have to play by the same rules.

I see what you are saying, but it could be argued that there were positives gained from
Stastny having stayed the rest of the season and playoffs.

Hell, if we make the second round this year I definitely think the playoff experience for our younger players would have been worth more than the assets received in a trade during the season.

 

[AvsRobin]

Definitely not saying that we are on their level yet, just pointing out that they have to play by the same rules.

I see what you are saying, but it could be argued that there are positives gained from
Stastny having stayed the rest of the season and playoffs.

Hell, if we make the second round this year I definitely think the playoff experience for our younger players would have been worth more than the assets received in a trade during the season.

When I look at what Miller fetched back in a trade as a pending UFA... I'm not so sure. Stastny would have been the most attractive player availble at the deadline. Joe mentioned we did get some offers. It would have been really, really interesting to know what some of those offers included today..

 

[AslanRH]

Sorry to jump into the middle of your conversation, but I don't come to this same conclusion. It's a leap of logic I can't make. If they had a precedent at all of doing something like this (distracting the masses) I might understand, but IMO they have been pretty straight forward so far.

About the payroll, if they are still a "budget" team in a couple of years when we are really have a good chance at going for the cup, I might start to wonder about things, but I just don't really think Roy or Sakic would buy into a situation where they would be hamstringed by money. I just can't see any scenario in regards to the conversation on the golf course that would play out like that with Roy and Sakic involved.

As for straight forward, that has yet to be seen. They want to build through the draft, but trade decent picks like they are baseball cards, so I'll keep my opinion skeptical for now.

I think without bringing in a big name there would be far more rainclouds than rainbows with the masses and even the masses that give more than a casual care here.

Iginla is great and I'm glad to watch him play, but he'll be 40 at the end of this deal. He brings those prized intangibles, but so did Stastny although many like to discount that or ignore it now he is gone. They have both won the same amount of cups and both have consistently worn letters for their teams.

This was not a long term move to build a cup winner, but a mid range place holder and a move to keep the team competitive over the next 2-3 years as the young guys get more time to develop, only now the young guys are Bigras, Siemens, Bleakley, etc rather than the "core" we were waiting on for the last few years.

Stastny would have been a longer commitment of course, but would likely have been a longer contributor as well. At best this seems like a wash to me.

 

[5280]

I think without bringing in a big name there would be far more rainclouds than rainbows with the masses and even the masses that give more than a casual care here.

Iginla is great and I'm glad to watch him play, but he'll be 40 at the end of this deal. He brings those prized intangibles, but so did Stastny although many like to discount that or ignore it now he is gone. They have both won the same amount of cups and both have consistently worn letters for their teams.

This was not a long term move to build a cup winner, but a mid range place holder and a move to keep the team competitive over the next 2-3 years as the young guys get more time to develop, only now the young guys are Bigras, Siemens, Bleakley, etc rather than the "core" we were waiting on for the last few years.

Stastny would have been a longer commitment of course, but would likely have been a longer contributor as well. At best this seems like a wash to me.

A wash that leaves money open to use elsewhere. You could still argue that they won't use that money and the Kroenkes are hamstringing the whole operation and trying to keep the team on a lower pay scale, but I'm not there yet.

Regarding Iginla, I originally thought 5.5 was pretty high for a 37 year old dude, but I know a Bruins fan that thinks he has a couple years left in the tank, loved him on Boston last year and wanted him back this year. (For whatever that is worth)

Also, I don't think Iginla would have come here if he didn't think they had a shot at winning the cup while he was here. He must have liked what he heard.

 

[AslanRH]

Definitely not saying that we are on their level yet, just pointing out that they have to play by the same rules.

I see what you are saying, but it could be argued that there are positives gained from
Stastny having stayed the rest of the season and playoffs.

Hell, if we make the second round this year I definitely think the playoff experience for our younger players would have been worth more than the assets received in a trade during the season.

If we make the playoffs this year I'll be happy. I love rooting for this team, but I think this will be a long year unless injuries stay away and everyone maintains or improves over last season. And this team definitely cannot afford for any key players regressing like PAP did last year.

 

[5280]

If we make the playoffs this year I'll be happy. I love rooting for this team, but I think this will be a long year unless injuries stay away and everyone maintains or improves over last season. And this team definitely cannot afford for any key players regressing like PAP did last year.

...and I thought you were the eternal optimist.

Our division is looking like murder.

I'd actually be surprised if we don't make the playoffs again. In my opinion we have a bunch of positives going into next year.

I'm just not ready to throw Sakic and Co under the bus yet. The only trade that has me still scratching my head is the Berra one, but that move is really still too early to judge.

 

[Hasbro]

At least the Blues fans can deal with Bozak + 2nd now.

 

[5280]

At least the Blues fans can deal with Bozak + 2nd now.

So true.

 

[AslanRH]

...and I thought you were the eternal optimist.

Our division is looking like murder.

In my opinion we have a bunch of positives going into next year, though.

I'm trying to stay optimistic. Just don't see improvement for Colorado, but quite a bit around the division.

We rode a vezina candidate to a great season. Hopefully he'll maintain that level again this year.

Hopefully we don't see more of our favorite players find their way out of Colorado.

So I guess I'm optimistic in my hopes.

 

[AslanRH]

At least the Blues fans can deal with Bozak + 2nd now.

We'll still get Lupol + Franson until ROR is signed long term

 

[tigervixxxen]

As for straight forward, that has yet to be seen. They want to build through the draft, but trade decent picks like they are baseball cards, so I'll keep my opinion skeptical for now.

I think without bringing in a big name there would be far more rainclouds than rainbows with the masses and even the masses that give more than a casual care here.

Iginla is great and I'm glad to watch him play, but he'll be 40 at the end of this deal. He brings those prized intangibles, but so did Stastny although many like to discount that or ignore it now he is gone. They have both won the same amount of cups and both have consistently worn letters for their teams.

This was not a long term move to build a cup winner, but a mid range place holder and a move to keep the team competitive over the next 2-3 years as the young guys get more time to develop, only now the young guys are Bigras, Siemens, Bleakley, etc rather than the "core" we were waiting on for the last few years.

Stastny would have been a longer commitment of course, but would likely have been a longer contributor as well. At best this seems like a wash to me.

I don't really disagree with any of this but I also don't see any of this as a bad thing.

Yes, Iginla was partially to pull the fanbase back off the ledge. I've written a lot about how they pay attention to public perception. And yep, it was a move to even out losing Stastny and keep the team competitive. And this team won't truly contend unless and until some of their prospects pan out and take major roles with the team. Then they can supplement with rentals and make a Cup run.

Where I disagree with you is the theory that they wanted to look like they are spending now but will go back to cheap as soon as possible. It's probably a stretch to think that realistically more than one prospect makes it next year. I'd love to see them all part of the team but that's a lot of inexperienced guys to rely on. Cap space is a good thing, not a bad thing. This is not a hugging the floor type of franchise, I don't think any tinfoil hat theories could even go there. Could they have found a way to fit in both Stastny and Iginla, yes. But listening to the presser it's obvious that was never ever an option, it was clearly either/or. So I just don't know why the hypothetical means more than just a hypothetical.

 

[The Mars Volchenkov]

Instead they chose to bring in a big name as a distraction to the masses

He's not just a big name though, he can still play at a high level. Had more goals than anyone on the Avs last year, and has scored 30 goals every year since 2000 except for the lockout year. The only other player on the roster who has a 30 goal season under his belt is Briere, and I doubt he'll come anywhere close to that this year.

Saying they signed a big name to distract the masses is underselling how good a player Iginla still is.

 

[AvalancheFan19]

When I look at what Miller fetched back in a trade as a pending UFA... I'm not so sure. Stastny would have been the most attractive player availble at the deadline. Joe mentioned we did get some offers. It would have been really, really interesting to know what some of those offers included today..

I fully agree with you but at the same time it's hindsight. The same thing with Zach Parise happened but the Devils went to the cup finals. I'd take a crack at the cup with him (any upcoming UFA) then get something at the deadline. We made the playoffs and the Lando-Stas-Mack line was amazing plus we won the division! It sucks we lost Stastny but the fact remains is we're a great young team, finished first in the Central last year and could have easily made it to round two. Bring in Iginla and we add an element we haven't had in quite some while. I'll take it.

Not saying you disagree with any of this, just rambling. Definitely would be intrigued to see what the highest bid was at deadline.

 

[5280]

I'm trying to stay optimistic. Just don't see improvement for Colorado, but quite a bit around the division.

We rode a vezina candidate to a great season. Hopefully he'll maintain that level again this year.

Hopefully we don't see more of our favorite players find their way out of Colorado.

So I guess I'm optimistic in my hopes.

...or not get injured.

I don't see Varly regressing much, but I guess we will see. There is the possibility that he could play better because he won't have the distractions.

Although they will probably regress points wise, I actually look at this team on paper and think they are better than last year.

 

[PAZ]

I think the front office likes the idea of having a flexible cap so we don't run into a situation where we have to dismantle our team. The problem with that is we'll never get over the hump, and I really think not signing Stastny was a huge mistake.

Stastny said that he thought STL was a bit better option in terms of hockey and that he was worried about his future with the team, but I honestly believe all that still came secondary. He wanted to stay an Avs and stay in Denver, he just needed to be coaxed a bit and it's quite obvious Sakic didn't feel the need to. I also believe he would've signed a 4 x 7 contract limited NTC if we offered it, but we didn't.

Down the road we could've moved him to wing or play him as a #3 C, whatever he preferred, but it would've kept our team intact instead of signing a 37 yr old Iggy for 3 years.

 

[AslanRH]

I don't really disagree with any of this but I also don't see any of this as a bad thing.

Yes, Iginla was partially to pull the fanbase back off the ledge. I've written a lot about how they pay attention to public perception. And yep, it was a move to even out losing Stastny and keep the team competitive. And this team won't truly contend unless and until some of their prospects pan out and take major roles with the team. Then they can supplement with rentals and make a Cup run.

Where I disagree with you is the theory that they wanted to look like they are spending now but will go back to cheap as soon as possible. It's probably a stretch to think that realistically more than one prospect makes it next year. I'd love to see them all part of the team but that's a lot of inexperienced guys to rely on. Cap space is a good thing, not a bad thing. This is not a hugging the floor type of franchise, I don't think any tinfoil hat theories could even go there. Could they have found a way to fit in both Stastny and Iginla, yes. But listening to the presser it's obvious that was never ever an option, it was clearly either/or. So I just don't know why the hypothetical means more than just a hypothetical.

Cap space is nice, but if you want to to think the Avs will go out and use it when the FA market gets weaker each year, I think you'll be disappointed.

They went into this offseason with a good bit of space (more than most teams of their caliber). They were rumored in on some big name defensemen, but set their limits, which I agree with as there really wasn't a great option to fill their primary need of a top pairing player except Ehrhoff.

They signed Iginla which was good, but one has to wonder how competitive the market really was for a 37 year old RW wanting a 2-3 year deal.

Maybe they are hoping next year that Sekera, Methot, Staal or Ehrhoff are there, but they have missed on 2 of them already either by trade or by FA.

I think at least 2 of the prospects will be on this team by the end of this season and I disagree that the Avs are not projecting 2-3 of Hishon, Bleakley, Siemens, Elliott and Bigras to make next year's roster.

The idea of the Avs trading for rentals scares the daylights out of me.

 

[Foppa Frossa]

Can we lock this thread? It makes me sad

 

[Colorado Avalanche]

I think the front office likes the idea of having a flexible cap so we don't run into a situation where we have to dismantle our team. The problem with that is we'll never get over the hump, and I really think not signing Stastny was a huge mistake.

Stastny said that he thought STL was a bit better option in terms of hockey and that he was worried about his future with the team, but I honestly believe all that still came secondary. He wanted to stay an Avs and stay in Denver, he just needed to be coaxed a bit and it's quite obvious Sakic didn't feel the need to. I also believe he would've signed a 4 x 7 contract limited NTC if we offered it, but we didn't.

Down the road we could've moved him to wing or play him as a #3 C, whatever he preferred, but it would've kept our team intact instead of signing a 37 yr old Iggy for 3 years.

I would have preferred this option. Put Stastny on MacKinnon's wing, when MacK is ready for his job as center. Iggy, while still effective(would lead our team in goals last season), but I doubt he's going to last 3 season. Third year in his contract is going to be too much though and It's probably going to hurt Avalanche.