Stastny As Good As Gone...

[Mortimer Snerd]

I never figured he was coming back. I think there is a small chance he's back but I think the higher probability is that he's gone.

Yup. That was always the case.

 

[Pongs21]

Could see him going to COL on a cheap or close to min deal. They'll be needing a C one Kadri signs a big ticket elsewhere

 

[ecolad]

Lowry was playing some shutdown hockey early in the year. Not much points either way. But easily our best defensive player, in terms of defensive metrics, from a defensive zone standpoint.

I still remember that we got into stretch time with Stastny-Lowry-Poganski as the checking line, Poganski having beat out other failed candidates early in the year such as Harkins, Toninato and Vesalainen...all wingers with less points than Lowry. And Adam Brooks too. For the month of February and March it was a choice between Reichel and Poganski as the last top 9 winger. With Ehlers going down, and then Perfetti, and Copp getting intermittently knocked out, there really wasn't much of a team. Svetchnikov I suppose could have played on a defensive zone checking line, but I think that's wishful thinking about the game he brings. And he was getting alternated by coach Lowry with Poganski in and out of the lineup for a stretch.

I don't think Stats has the speed to be a true shutdown centre. The only other guy who was capable of being that guy was being played up the lineup for some trade deadline value.

I know that we have fundamentally differing views on how Lowry might best be deployed on this team - and that`s perfectly fine, of course. We share a common view that he has the physical tools to play a highly effective defensive game, moreso than others on the roster. But I am not wedded to the thought that he MUST play as a C in order to add value to the team. In fact, I believe the opposite.

There was missed opportunity to try alternative 3rd line arrangements with Stastny at C season this past season .Of course, the objective would have been to search for a balanced 3rd line, not a shutdown line as you continue to focus on.

 

[DRW204]

I know that we have fundamentally differing views on how Lowry might best be deployed on this team - and that`s perfectly fine, of course. We share a common view that he has the physical tools to play a highly effective defensive game, moreso than others on the roster. But I am not wedded to the thought that he MUST play as a C in order to add value to the team. In fact, I believe the opposite.

There was missed opportunity to try alternative 3rd line arrangements with Stastny at C season this past season .Of course, the objective would have been to search for a balanced 3rd line, not a shutdown line as you continue to focus on.

Idk if he should be at wing at all. His strengths are better used at C notably on the defensive zone (centers usually have more responsibility than the wing), using his size and physicality through all parts of the ice and on the dot. Personally I prefer a bit more speed on the wing and players with better shots and I Dont think those are Lowrys strengths.

If he was like Gourde for instance who also centered a shut down line, but could also score or drive offense, by all means he's fine at 3C. Even the 17-18 version of Lowry - near 0.5ppg while handedly out shooting/chancing and scoring the opposition. However that hasn't been the case as of late. From the stats I've seen, (from ineffective math) his usage against top line fwds doesn't seem to be as high as it used to be either. So you're left with a 20 pt 3c getting outscored by opposing teams bottom 6ers most of the time.

Not all of it is on him though. The wingers he's had haven't been great. However, he's making nearly 3.5m and is a vet of 500+ games. Id put a bit more of the onus on him to drive that line to good results.

Cup contenders, or winners usually don't have a third line with anemic offense.

I sometimes don't like the Lowry discussion tho lol. I like him as a player but just think he's a spot to high on the depth chart. And he's a fan favorite and a good quotable, easy guy to root for.

 

[surixon]

Idk if he should be at wing at all. His strengths are better used at C notably on the defensive zone (centers usually have more responsibility than the wing), using his size and physicality through all parts of the ice and on the dot. Personally I prefer a bit more speed on the wing and players with better shots and I Dont think those are Lowrys strengths.

If he was like Gourde for instance who also centered a shut down line, but could also score or drive offense, by all means he's fine at 3C. Even the 17-18 version of Lowry - near 0.5ppg while handedly out shooting/chancing and scoring the opposition. However that hasn't been the case as of late. From the stats I've seen, (from ineffective math) his usage against top line fwds doesn't seem to be as high as it used to be either. So you're left with a 20 pt 3c getting outscored by opposing teams bottom 6ers most of the time.

Not all of it is on him though. The wingers he's had haven't been great. However, he's making nearly 3.5m and is a vet of 500+ games. Id put a bit more of the onus on him to drive that line to good results.

Cup contenders, or winners usually don't have a third line with anemic offense.

I sometimes don't like the Lowry discussion tho lol. I like him as a player but just think he's a spot to high on the depth chart. And he's a fan favorite and a good quotable, easy guy to root for.

Honestly Lowry would be great as a fourth line C in a setup where the coach uses his fourth line regularly. Couple that with first unit PK time and he likely still gets 13 to 14 minutes a game.

 

[DRW204]

Honestly Lowry would be great as a fourth line C in a setup where the coach uses his fourth line regularly. Couple that with first unit PK time and he likely still gets 13 to 14 minutes a game.

Yeah but he just signed a 3.25x5 years deal. They're not going to put him at 4c after 1 year of that imo.

 

[surixon]

Yeah but he just signed a 3.25x5 years deal. They're not going to put him at 4c after 1 year of that imo.

Who knows, they had no issue banishing Perrault to the fourth line in year 1 of his new deal when Conner pushed him out of his top 6 spot. So much will depend on the new coach and what their philosophy is.

I'd say it's more likely then not they once again try to make it work with Lowry on the third line but I wouldn't rule it out that he's pushed to the third line if the new coach has other ideas.

 

[DRW204]

Who knows, they had no issue banishing Perrault to the fourth line in year 1 of his new deal when Conner pushed him out of his top 6 spot. So much will depend on the new coach and what their philosophy is.

I'd say it's more likely then not they once again try to make it work with Lowry on the third line but I wouldn't rule it out that he's pushed to the third line if the new coach has other ideas.

We had scheifele, dubois and Stastny the last two years. We elected to put one of them at wing rather than ever pushing Lowry down. Heck Copp would have been a Better 3c option I beleive.
Yeah it depends on the new coach certainly. The new coach can double down on Chevy's view on Lowry as this team's 3c, just as much as they go against it. But considering the contract, him being a fan favorite, the intangibles/TNSE home-grown etc I'm leaning towards Lowry being the 3c to start next year.

edit: look id love for us to have him at 4c, and have a scoring 3rd line, but my opinion is based on how they've operated to-date. certainly they can change as they see what they have been doing hasn't been working, but i think nhl orgs. can be stubborn and resistant to change. we've seen it before with the jets too. if chevy ever had a problem with the handling of the roster (among other things) with previous coaching, he would've made a change of some sort sooner. im hoping they push him to 4c, but wouldn't bet on it.

 

[surixon]

We had scheifele, dubois and Stastny the last two years. We elected to put one of them at wing rather than ever pushing Lowry down. Heck Copp would have been a Better 3c option I beleive.
Yeah it depends on the new coach certainly. The new coach can double down on Chevy's view on Lowry as this team's 3c, just as much as they go against it. But considering the contract, him being a fan favorite, the intangibles etc I'm leaning towards Lowry being the 3c to start next year.

Well I mean it was Maurice that I think really pushed the narrative with Lowry doing everything he could to turn him into a a top 6 center before creating that checking line.

I don't think the org was as married to him in that role as you think. Back on 16-17 there was a clear plan to go with three scoring lines with Perrault as 3C. But Conner struggled out of the gate and injuries happened and Moe went to his default and well the checking line started having success and then it dominated the two years after which clearly solidified it in the coaches mind. No different then him falling in love with the CSW line due to a strong two year sample. He refused to change that line as well even when it struggled. We all know how stubborn Maurice can get with lines and players.

Let's be realistic, Lowry was never going to demote his son. If anything Lowry got a big push under his Dad with PP time.

I am willing to wait and see what a new coach wants.

 

[DRW204]

Well I mean it was Maurice that I think really pushed the narrative with Lowry doing everything he could to turn him into a a top 6 center before creating that checking line.

I don't think the org was as married to him in that role as you think. Back on 16-17 there was a clear plan to go with three scoring lines with Perrault as 3C. But Conner struggled out of the gate and injuries happened and Moe went to his default and well the checking line started having success and then it dominated the two years after which clearly solidified it in the coaches mind. No different then him falling in love with the CSW line due to a strong two year sample. He refused to change that line as well even when it struggled. We all know how stubborn Maurice can get with lines and players.

Let's be realistic, Lowry was never going to demote his son. If anything Lowry got a big push under his Dad with PP time.

I am willing to wait and see what a new coach wants.

my god 16-17. you're going back to 6 years to make some sort of point that lowry wont be a 3c?

what have they done in the 5 years since? jesus. maybe we should keep wheeler and scheifele together b/c of 2016 too .

you know what speaks... money. 5x3.25m is not 4c money. the gm gave him that contract a year ago, they will give him every opportunity to keep that 3c role.

 

[gojetsgo]

We had scheifele, dubois and Stastny the last two years. We elected to put one of them at wing rather than ever pushing Lowry down. Heck Copp would have been a Better 3c option I beleive.
Yeah it depends on the new coach certainly. The new coach can double down on Chevy's view on Lowry as this team's 3c, just as much as they go against it. But considering the contract, him being a fan favorite, the intangibles etc I'm leaning towards Lowry being the 3c to start next year.

-chevy wanted to see heinola in the line up and left him in the pressbox until it was clear maurice wasn't going to use him
-pearrult on the 4th line making 4 million
-myers making 5.5 on the bottom pairing
-kulikov making 4.3 on the bottom pairing
-little moved to the bottom six after we traded for stastny while making 5.2 million
-schmidt moved to bottom pair making 5.9 million

I think it's pretty clear that chevy doesn't force lineup decisions on his coaching based on the amount of money they make

 

[surixon]

my god 16-17. you're going back to 6 years to make some sort of point that lowry wont be a 3c?

what have they done in the 5 years since? jesus. maybe we should keep wheeler and scheifele together b/c of 2016 too .

you know what speaks... money. 5x3.25m is not 4c money. the gm gave him that contract a year ago, they will give him every opportunity to keep that 3c role.

So why didn't money speak with regards to Perrault, he was making more then $4 million per but had no issue using ELC Conner ahead of him in the lineup which relegated him the the fourth line. Chevy signed him as well.

Myers and kulikov making a combined $10 plus million to patrol the bottom pairing while ELC and bridge deal Morrissey and Trouba played ahead of them.

Three million DeMelo has spent a lot of time on the third pairing the last two years $5.9 million Schmidt spent time there this year.

This org has used numerous expensive players down the lineup the last number of years so no money doesn't always talk imo. Clearly the org and our past coached like Lowry, it doesn't mean that he is going to be seen the same way by his next coach.

-chevy wanted to see heinola in the line up and left him in the pressbox until it was clear maurice wasn't going to use him
-pearrult on the 4th line making 4 million
-myers making 5.5 on the bottom pairing
-kulikov making 4.3 on the bottom pairing
-little moved to the bottom six after we traded for stastny while making 5.2 million
-schmidt moved to bottom pair making 5.9 million

I think it's pretty clear that chevy doesn't force lineup decisions on his coaching based on the amount of money they make

Beat me to the punch.

 

[DRW204]

-chevy wanted to see heinola in the line up and left him in the pressbox until it was clear maurice wasn't going to use him
-pearrult on the 4th line making 4 million
-myers making 5.5 on the bottom pairing
-kulikov making 4.3 on the bottom pairing
-little moved to the bottom six after we traded for stastny while making 5.2 million
-schmidt moved to bottom pair making 5.9 million

I think it's pretty clear that chevy doesn't force lineup decisions on his coaching based on the amount of money they make

So why didn't money speak with regards to Perrault, he was making more then $4 million per but had no issue using ELC Conner ahead of him in the lineup which relegated him the the fourth line. Chevy signed him as well.

Myers and kulikov making a combined $10 plus million to patrol the bottom pairing while ELC and bridge deal Morrissey and Trouba played ahead of them.

Three million DeMelo has spent a lot of time on the third pairing the last two years $5.9 million Schmidt spent time there this year.

This org has used numerous expensive players down the lineup the last number of years so no money doesn't always talk imo. Clearly the org and our past coached like Lowry, it doesn't mean that he is going to be seen the same way by his next coach.


Beat me to the punch.

perreault was a top liner to start the year. he was demoted once they found via injury that they actually have a prolific goal scorer in KC. 2LW is ehlers.

myers averaged nearly 22 mins a night. he was highly used, and filled in the top-4 regularly with buff being oft-injured, and trouba being hurt/contract impasse.

Little was making not making 5.2m. once his new contract kicked in he was comfortably at 2c in 18-19 and 19-20 before he got hurt.

schmidt start the year on the top-pair.

kulikov i will concede, although he started top-4 upon enstroms retirement.

neither schmidt/myers/perreault/kulikov were tnse home growns or had the tenure that lowry has.

the players/vets will start the year in prominent roles, which i foresee with lowry. if they have lowry at 4c or perfetti or some1 else at 3c, id gladly be wrong and eat crow (ive been bagging the drum for a scoring 3c forever). we've had centers superior to lowry as alternatives as 3c over the years, yet we've never veered off that make up of him at 3c. then followed it up with a 5x3.25m contract. i think he will have 3C to start this year, but if there's injuries or a trade, perhaps they go another route.

 

[gojetsgo]

perreault was a top liner to start the year. he was demoted once they found via injury that they actually have a prolific goal scorer in KC. 2LW is ehlers.

myers averaged nearly 22 mins a night. he was highly used, and filled in the top-4 regularly with buff being oft-injured, and trouba being hurt/contract impasse.

Little was making not making 5.2m. once his new contract kicked in he was comfortably at 2c in 18-19 and 19-20 before he got hurt.

schmidt start the year on the top-pair.

kulikov i will concede, although he started top-4 upon enstroms retirement.

the players/vets will start the year in prominent roles, which i foresee with lowry. if they have lowry at 4c or perfetti or some1 else at 3c, id gladly be wrong and eat crow (ive been bagging the drum for a scoring 3c forever). we've had centers superior to lowry as alternatives as 3c over the years, yet we've never veered off that make up of him at 3c. then followed it up with a 5x3.25m contract. i think he will have 3C to start this year, but if there's injuries or a trade, perhaps they go another route.

I think the new coach will put lowry in the role he wants lowry in despite how much he makes

 

[DRW204]

I think the new coach will put lowry in the role he wants lowry in despite how much he makes

we will see. i think he will be 3c to start the year based on how chevy & the org. values him, but hopeful we upgrade and have a 3rd line that can score.

 

[ecolad]

Idk if he should be at wing at all. His strengths are better used at C notably on the defensive zone (centers usually have more responsibility than the wing), using his size and physicality through all parts of the ice and on the dot. Personally I prefer a bit more speed on the wing and players with better shots and I Dont think those are Lowrys strengths.

If he was like Gourde for instance who also centered a shut down line, but could also score or drive offense, by all means he's fine at 3C. Even the 17-18 version of Lowry - near 0.5ppg while handedly out shooting/chancing and scoring the opposition. However that hasn't been the case as of late. From the stats I've seen, (from ineffective math) his usage against top line fwds doesn't seem to be as high as it used to be either. So you're left with a 20 pt 3c getting outscored by opposing teams bottom 6ers most of the time.

Not all of it is on him though. The wingers he's had haven't been great. However, he's making nearly 3.5m and is a vet of 500+ games. Id put a bit more of the onus on him to drive that line to good results.

Cup contenders, or winners usually don't have a third line with anemic offense.

I sometimes don't like the Lowry discussion tho lol. I like him as a player but just think he's a spot to high on the depth chart. And he's a fan favorite and a good quotable, easy guy to root for.

We seem to share a lot of views -including the notion that the team needs a 3rd line with some balance between defense and offense if they are to compete against others, and, the notion that a Lowry centered line has clearly not been able to generate such balance ( fully supported by stats).

But it`s clear that we differ on what attributes make a good center, rather than a winger. I would respectfully suggest any discussion needs to go well beyond his "size and physicality all over the ice" or even his face-off prowess and or foot speed. It`s not apparent to me that Lowry can create any offence for himself or for his teammates- even in the most basic dump and chase scheme and or puck possession cycle scheme. He is adept at limiting space when pursuing the puck but clearly has never learned to create space when he has possession. A playmaker he most certainly is not. Even when he simply "goes to the net", he lacks stick/puck skills (ie has stone hands) and positioning knowhow that would make him more effective in screening and capitalizing on rebounds.

I quite like Lowry the person as well and believe that he is a valuable asset to the team. But imo the org made an error years ago when they determined that he would be developed as a C and nothing else.

 

[gojetsgo]

we will see. i think he will be 3c to start the year based on how chevy & the org. values him, but hopeful we upgrade and have a 3rd line that can score.

ok, they value adam lowry, but there is no proof that they force their coaches lineup decisions, I'm sure if maurice/lowry wanted to use stastny as a 3rd line center he would have had no problems considering he tried to sign him before he went to st louis, he traded for him twice and tried to sign him after the first trade, re-signed him after the second trade and didn't trade him at the deadline, I think it's very clear they also value stastny

 

[DRW204]

We seem to share a lot of views -including the notion that the team needs a 3rd line with some balance between defense and offense if they are to compete against others, and, the notion that a Lowry centered line has clearly not been able to generate such balance ( fully supported by stats).

But it`s clear that we differ on what attributes make a good center, rather than a winger. I would respectfully suggest any discussion needs to go well beyond his "size and physicality all over the ice" or even his face-off prowess and or foot speed. It`s not apparent to me that Lowry can create any offence for himself or for his teammates- even in the most basic dump and chase scheme and or puck possession cycle scheme. He is adept at limiting space when pursuing the puck but clearly has never learned to create space when he has possession. A playmaker he most certainly is not. Even when he simply "goes to the net", he lacks stick/puck skills (ie has stone hands) and positioning knowhow that would make him more effective in screening and capitalizing on rebounds.

I quite like Lowry the person as well and believe that he is a valuable asset to the team. But imo the org made an error years ago when they determined that he would be developed as a C and nothing else.

i think every thing you stated as far as his weaknesses would just get glorified on the wing. lack speed and finishing meanwhile the actual areas he provides good value in becomes less emphasized. i think we saw some of that when we had him LW with scheifele and wheeler and that line couldnt buy a goal. i wouldn't have him as a top-9er at all, but as a defensive 4C i think hes fine in that role.

ok, they value adam lowry, but there is no proof that they force their coaches lineup decisions, I'm sure if maurice/lowry wanted to use stastny as a 3rd line center he would have had no problems considering he tried to sign him before he went to st louis, he traded for him twice and tried to sign him after the first trade, re-signed him after the second trade and didn't trade him at the deadline, I think it's very clear they also value stastny

ok we will see if they have him at 3c or 4c to start the year.

 

[ecolad]

i think every thing you stated as far as his weaknesses would just get glorified on the wing. lack speed and finishing meanwhile the actual areas he provides good value in becomes less emphasized. i think we saw some of that when we had him LW with scheifele and wheeler and that line couldnt buy a goal. i wouldn't have him as a top-9er at all, but as a defensive 4C i think hes fine in that role.

Interesting take. The opposite may also be true- freed of the extra responsibilities of a C, Lowry might be able to play the physical, crash and bang game along the boards and all over the ice as you put it ,more effectively than ever .

Agreed he didn`t do much to help Wheeler/Scheifele when placed on their wing but they were clearly out of sorts at the time for wharever reason. I don`t think Lowry has the skills /aptitude to be the "puck pursuit"guy on the top line in any event - he`s no Hyman equivalent by any means. But as a winger on a 3rd line with the right scheme or playstyle, I think he could be very effective

 

[gojetsgo]

ok we will see if they have him at 3c or 4c to start the year.

he may very well end up as our 3c, I don't think any one is arguing that... the argument is that the new coach won't be forced to use him on the 3rd line and it will be his decision to make

 

[DRW204]

Interesting take. The opposite may also be true- freed of the extra responsibilities of a C, Lowry might be able to play the physical, crash and bang game along the boards and all over the ice as you put it ,more effectively than ever .

Agreed he didn`t do much to help Wheeler/Scheifele when placed on their wing but they were clearly out of sorts at the time for wharever reason. I don`t think Lowry has the skills /aptitude to be the "puck pursuit"guy on the top line in any event - he`s no Hyman equivalent by any means. But as a winger on a 3rd line with the right scheme or playstyle, I think he could be very effective

it all depends of the make-up of the line. & who is the 3C and other winger playing with him. do you want Perfetti centering Lowry for instance?
i think if that's the case id rather just bump lowry down to 4c, play a defensive role, and then have perfetti sort of as a sheltered scoring line. he'd need to play with a bit more offense/high offensive IQ linemates though. i brought up in another thread finding a shoot-first player in FA, and pairing them w/ Perfetti and Wheeler. however, idk if this org views Perfetti as a C, & idk if they would have Wheeler outside the top-6.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

I could see Stats signing with Colorado (a legit contender) next season for near league minimum...like $1 million or so. With Kadri almost sure to be gone next season, the Avs could run McKinnon on the first line and have a 2nd/3rd line centres with Stats and a rapidly improving Newhook who could probably have 50-60 points as early as next season.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Yeah but he just signed a 3.25x5 years deal. They're not going to put him at 4c after 1 year of that imo.

If they are employing that kind of thinking, contract dictates usage, then they are never going anywhere. That is deliberately making a mistake today because you made a mistake yesterday.

 

[Adam da bomb]

Should have traded him at tdl

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

We had scheifele, dubois and Stastny the last two years. We elected to put one of them at wing rather than ever pushing Lowry down. Heck Copp would have been a Better 3c option I beleive.
Yeah it depends on the new coach certainly. The new coach can double down on Chevy's view on Lowry as this team's 3c, just as much as they go against it. But considering the contract, him being a fan favorite, the intangibles/TNSE home-grown etc I'm leaning towards Lowry being the 3c to start next year.

edit: look id love for us to have him at 4c, and have a scoring 3rd line, but my opinion is based on how they've operated to-date. certainly they can change as they see what they have been doing hasn't been working, but i think nhl orgs. can be stubborn and resistant to change. we've seen it before with the jets too. if chevy ever had a problem with the handling of the roster (among other things) with previous coaching, he would've made a change of some sort sooner. im hoping they push him to 4c, but wouldn't bet on it.

Next year, we won't have either Copp or Stastny as 3C options. Lowry may be the best we have for that job.