Starfield - Bethesda Softworks - Release Date - Sep 6th 2023

Mikeaveli

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Sep 25, 2013
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This is just Microsoft trying to push things in their direction again. They are funding AMD on a bunch of projects, so what better way to recoup money than making them an official partner on products.
They can do that without excluding features, Sony has done that with their AMD sponsored titles (The Last of Us, Uncharted Legacy of Thieves Collection). Hopefully Microsoft listens and does the same. Even if they don't though, FSR 2 is already in the game so a DLSS mod will most likely come soon after release.
 

PeteWorrell

[...]
Aug 31, 2006
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I have to ask though, is anyone actually going to switch to AMD because they have feature parity with Nvidia in a few titles? All this does is make the experience worse (in line with AMD users) for the majority of players in a few specific games. Maybe if AMD had their own technology that was worth using people wouldn't be that upset about this and they would sell more GPUs.
It's true that DLSS is superior to FSR but i would be more sympathetic to your plea if you didn't sound like a butthurt fanboy who is not getting his way.
 

Mikeaveli

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Sep 25, 2013
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It's true that DLSS is superior to FSR but i would be more sympathetic to your plea if you didn't sound like a butthurt fanboy who is not getting his way.
Yes it upsets me that a game I'm incredibly hyped for is going to likely be gimped at launch because of a sponsorship deal. I'm a fanboy of getting the best experience possible, thats why I play on PC.
 

PeteWorrell

[...]
Aug 31, 2006
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Yes it upsets me that a game I'm incredibly hyped for is going to likely be gimped at launch because of a sponsorship deal. I'm a fanboy of getting the best experience possible, thats why I play on PC.
You would not have batted an eye if it was Nvidia getting the sponsorship and blocking FSR for AMD cards. You are just whining because it affects you and nothing else.
 

Knave

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Mar 6, 2007
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I have to ask though, is anyone actually going to switch to AMD because they have feature parity with Nvidia in a few titles? All this does is make the experience worse (in line with AMD users) for the majority of players in a few specific games. Maybe if AMD had their own technology that was worth using people wouldn't be that upset about this and they would sell more GPUs.

Maybe. They obviously think so since they're continuing with these deals.

I would just keep in mind the reality that Nvidia is essentially a monopoly and attacking one of two attempts to challlenge them in AMD (Intel being the other) by complaining of their unfair practices is dangerous.

I compared Nvidia up above to Microsoft but it's actually much worse than that. Nvidia is more like an ISP like AT&T. The physical infrastructure costs to set up are massive.

If AMD was 30-40% of the market or the market was split three ways I'd be a lot less sympathetic to AMD buying exclusivity. But when we're essentially living in a world of a monopoly... lets suffer in the short term for a better future instead of a much worse one.

Look at AMD and Intel in CPU chips. Intel dominated and still does dominate but AMD has become a legitimate competitor. And now Intel chips are better, Intel chips are more competitively priced. Everyone has benefited. The hope is we can get there with GPUs.
 

Beau Knows

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Obviously as a consumer you'd prefer to see a less restrictive kind of promotion, like buy an AMD GPU and get Starfield for free or discounted or something like that. If you were building a PC just to play Starfield that kind of offer might sway you.
 

Osprey

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Feb 18, 2005
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Seems like a weird complaint to be honest. The video in the spoiler even admits unhealthy practices by Nvidia in the GPU market but doesn't seem to want to admit that's why AMD is acting the way it is - to try to maintain and gain a foothold in the GPU market.
It doesn't seem weird to me to hold both companies accountable. If anything, it seems weird to excuse either one because the other does it, too.
It's true that DLSS is superior to FSR but i would be more sympathetic to your plea if you didn't sound like a butthurt fanboy who is not getting his way.
I have a 30 series card that can't use DLSS Frame Generation and I'm thinking about going back to AMD for my next card, so I still won't be able to use DLSS Frame Generation. Despite that, I agree with Mikeaveli. I want to see AMD compete by improving their software and hardware, not by crippling Nvidia's in popular games.
 
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93LEAFS

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Maybe. They obviously think so since they're continuing with these deals.

I would just keep in mind the reality that Nvidia is essentially a monopoly and attacking one of two attempts to challlenge them in AMD (Intel being the other) by complaining of their unfair practices is dangerous.

I compared Nvidia up above to Microsoft but it's actually much worse than that. Nvidia is more like an ISP like AT&T. The physical infrastructure costs to set up are massive.

If AMD was 30-40% of the market or the market was split three ways I'd be a lot less sympathetic to AMD buying exclusivity. But when we're essentially living in a world of a monopoly... lets suffer in the short term for a better future instead of a much worse one.

Look at AMD and Intel in CPU chips. Intel dominated and still does dominate but AMD has become a legitimate competitor. And now Intel chips are better, Intel chips are more competitively priced. Everyone has benefited. The hope is we can get there with GPUs.
Except in CPUs they caught up due to performance, not through exclusivity practices. They just made better chips for price to performance. These are just an inconvenience to consumers. There is nothing special about AMD GPU's that will make them perform inherently better than Nvidia. You'll likely get better price to rasterization performance. But, having to gimp a game for performance to be competitive is a disservice, and is more likely to sour people on AMD, instead of getting people to switch. Just like how people will largely ignore the Epic Game store exclusivity deals rather than switch from Steam.

It seems sort of shortsighted by MS to take the deal with AMD, when a vast majority of GPUs are Nvidia, and they should want it to perform as best as possible at launch given this is their marquee game for the year, and many will download it day one on gamepass to test it out.
 

PeteWorrell

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Aug 31, 2006
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It doesn't seem weird to me to hold both companies accountable. If anything, it seems weird to excuse either one because the other does it, too.

I have a 30 series card that can't use DLSS Frame Generation and I'm thinking about going back to AMD for my next card, so I still won't be able to use DLSS Frame Generation. Despite that, I agree with Mikeaveli. I want to see AMD compete by improving their software and hardware, not by crippling Nvidia's in popular games.
AMD are doing a lot more with FSR by having it available for new and old cards including Nvidia ones.

It's actually DLSS that is a problem with it only being available for certain specific cards. You want the latest DLSS? You need to buy the latest super expensive series or else you are stuck with an older revision.

No idea how you guys think that AMD pushing a technology that is not exclusive to a certain brand or series of cards, are somehow the bad guys in all of this.
 

Osprey

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Feb 18, 2005
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AMD are doing a lot more with FSR by having it available for new and old cards including Nvidia ones.

It's actually DLSS that is a problem with it only being available for certain specific cards. You want the latest DLSS? You need to buy the latest super expensive series or else you are stuck with an older revision.

No idea how you guys think that AMD pushing a technology that is not exclusive to a certain brand or series of cards, are somehow the bad guys in all of this.
Paying to have your competitor's technology not incorporated in a game is not pushing your own technology. Yes, it's lame for Nvidia to make DLSS exclusive to their cards, but it's also lame for AMD to fight lameness with more lameness. It would've been lame if they'd made FSR exclusive to their cards, but they didn't, and you're applauding them for that. Making technology available to more users is a good thing. In this case, though, they're making Nvidia's technology unavailable to users, which is a bad thing. More choice is good. Less choice is bad. If you're OK with this, then you would have to be OK if Nvidia responded to it by paying developers to not include FSR in their games. I'd be upset with that, since it would affect me, so I can't just be OK with AMD doing it, even though it doesn't.
 

PeteWorrell

[...]
Aug 31, 2006
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Paying to have your competitor's technology not incorporated in a game is not pushing your own technology. Yes, it's lame for Nvidia to make DLSS exclusive to their cards, but it's also lame for AMD to fight lameness with more lameness. It would've been lame if they'd made FSR exclusive to their cards, but they didn't, and you're applauding them for that. Making technology available to more users is a good thing. In this case, though, they're making Nvidia's technology unavailable to users, which is a bad thing. More choice is good. Less choice is bad. If you're OK with this, then you would have to be OK if Nvidia responded to it by paying developers to not include FSR in their games. I'd be upset with that, since it would affect me, so I can't just be OK with AMD doing it, even though it doesn't.
Nvidia have done the exact same thing for years. I am not really applauding AMD for what they are doing but it's just ironic to see Nvidia users suddenly cry foul when the shoe is on the other foot. They could care less when it did not affect them but suddenly when it does, then AMD are the worst. You can't just be against scumbag practices only when it is inconvenient which is exactly what is happening right now.
 

Osprey

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Nvidia have done the exact same thing for years. I am not really applauding AMD for what they are doing but it's just ironic to see Nvidia users suddenly cry foul when the shoe is on the other foot. They could care less when it did not affect them but suddenly when it does, then AMD are the worst. You can't just be against scumbag practices only when it is inconvenient which is exactly what is happening right now.
Nvidia has not done the exact same thing for years. Did you watch the video that I posted? The chart suggests that Nvidia hasn't blocked FSR support in the games that they've sponsored. Nvidia has done many other scummy things, though, and I've called them out on it, like in this post. Practices like that are part of why I've been leaning towards going back to AMD for my next card. I told you that and that this issue doesn't affect me now and likely won't affect me in the future, so I don't know why you're implying that I'm an Nvidia fanboy who's crying foul only now that it affects me. I'm actually doing as you advise and being against anti-consumer practices regardless of situation, rather than defending one on the grounds that the competition has done similarly.
 
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Knave

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Mar 6, 2007
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Ottawa
Except in CPUs they caught up due to performance, not through exclusivity practices. They just made better chips for price to performance. These are just an inconvenience to consumers. There is nothing special about AMD GPU's that will make them perform inherently better than Nvidia. You'll likely get better price to rasterization performance. But, having to gimp a game for performance to be competitive is a disservice, and is more likely to sour people on AMD, instead of getting people to switch. Just like how people will largely ignore the Epic Game store exclusivity deals rather than switch from Steam.

It seems sort of shortsighted by MS to take the deal with AMD, when a vast majority of GPUs are Nvidia, and they should want it to perform as best as possible at launch given this is their marquee game for the year, and many will download it day one on gamepass to test it out.

Exclusivity is the red herring here. Nvidia does not need an exclusivity clause when it signs these deals because they own over 70% of the market share and likely more if we looked specifically at consumer gaming cards.

We saw what happened in the 90s when Microsoft argued Internet Explorer was not exclusive. You could download competing products. They lost in court after regulators brought forward their cases. They paid billions in fines. Nvidia is a monopoly even if regulators are too afraid to treat it like one. Exclusivity is a red herring even if Nvidia card owners here want to pretend it is not.

And AMD CPUs caught up because they signed "get a free game" deals that pushed Ryzen into prebuilt computers. Another important thing to remember is their market share in CPU at its lowest point was still greater than their share in GPUs at their highest point.


Also sure, people will be upset. Nvidia card owners who would have never considered AMD before. Why should AMD or regulators care about that? More casual enthusiasts will buy AMD GPUs and prebuilts without as much of a fuss. People watching videos on upscaling results and frame rates are a small minority of people who play any game.
 

Khelandros

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Feb 12, 2019
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Obviously as a consumer you'd prefer to see a less restrictive kind of promotion, like buy an AMD GPU and get Starfield for free or discounted or something like that. If you were building a PC just to play Starfield that kind of offer might sway you.
You don't sell game passes when you give stuff away for free.
 

Mikeaveli

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Sep 25, 2013
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You would not have batted an eye if it was Nvidia getting the sponsorship and blocking FSR for AMD cards. You are just whining because it affects you and nothing else.
You're right, In fact I would be even more excited for the game because an Nvidia sponsorship would mean there's a greater chance of the game including advanced RT features lol. I don't know why you would expect me to be upset about something that doesn't affect me. I don't care about the game being 30 FPS on console or the game not being on PS5 either. I care about this because AMD are going out of their way to make PC games worse.
 

aleshemsky83

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Apr 8, 2008
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You would not have batted an eye if it was Nvidia getting the sponsorship and blocking FSR for AMD cards. You are just whining because it affects you and nothing else.
Theres one problem with this logic. Nvidia sponsored titles exist, and they have FSR.

FSR 2.0 is not as good as DLSS, tbh its not even better than Intels XESS. That and not having DLSS 3 hurts a lot of people.

I do feel I'm pretty impartial because I have a GTX 1080 and am probably not upgrading any time soon.
 
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93LEAFS

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So, it seems the only games that are AMD sponsored that get DLSS support are either Sony exclusives (Last of Us part 1, Horizon: Zero Dawn, Uncharted) or games that released only on Playstation/PC at launch (Deathloop and Forespoken).

It would seem to be a mistake to me for Microsoft to launch their most anticipated game in years with only FSR support when a better-competing technology exists for most consumers on PC game pass, especially when your primary competitor isn't doing this to their titles (granted, they also don't release day one on PC).
 
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Osprey

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Basically, if you buy a Ryzen 7000 series CPU, a Radeon 7000 series GPU, a Radeon 6000 series GPU or a whole computer with a combination of Ryzen and Radeon hardware between now and the end of September, you'll get Starfield for free.
 
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Jovavic

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One month left, let's go!

My plan is to get GP for a month and see how it is (renting it, basically), if I like it I'll just buy it instead of paying monthly for one game. I've watched and read very little on it.
 

Mikeaveli

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I went with the premium edition from GreenManGaming (18% off) despite having game pass because I want early access and the DLC but I really don't want to pay extra for a game on a service and I won't be renewing my game pass sub after it expires in 2024.

 
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542365

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5 days early access is quite a bit. If it wasn’t going to be on Gamepass day 1 I’d probably get the special edition.I’ll save the $100 and just wait, though patience is not my strength.
 
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