Online Series: Star Wars: The Acolyte on Disney+
- Thread starter Jussi
- Start date
This has literally been said since the f***ing prequels.
Stylizer1
Teflon Don
tacogeoff
Registered User
Eh. another lame episode. still better than BF but way worse than Ashoka. I don't want to see this writing crew do KOTR it will not be good.
BrindamoursNose
Registered User
- Oct 14, 2008
- 20,359
- 14,500
Dude I'm a very liberal guy, but I absolutely hate what they're doing.
BrindamoursNose
Registered User
- Oct 14, 2008
- 20,359
- 14,500
Just my quick-hit opinion as a dude who dislikes the show, but is a pretty liberal dude
- Fires technically can't happen in space, but they have in SW before so I don't even care. That's certainly not something I think damages the show. I think it's weird they even needed to have her put fires outside the ship. Why not just be a mechanic in the ship? Blah whatever.
- The knife shouldn't be enough to stop a Jedi as-in it shouldn't have been able to even get to Undarra's heart in the first place (since she's a Master and should've been able to sense it probably). Makes Undarra look super weak when I want her to be pretty strong. So that bums me out as a fan.
- The witches with the babies? I'm fine with that. Whatever. But it is pretty performative IMO. Like is there a reason we needed to know Quorra carried the twins instead of just saying the mother (forget her name) created them using the Force? Like did we *need* to know who carried the kids? That's where I can see why people feel an agenda is afoot.
If the rumors are right and after they wee about this episode, it gets WAAAAAAY worse.
This isn't even a good parody of Star Wars or witchcraft, Robin Hood: Men in Tights had a better and a more accurate portrayal of the occult
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
Rob
Registered User
I will accept Spaceballs as cannon before the Acolyte.
Hint1k
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2017
- 4,125
- 2,529
If you have a car and the brake is broken or steering wheel is missing - that is very important. It means your car is not functional. You can't use it.
If your car has a dirty spot on a door, you still can drive it from point A to point B. The car is still functional.
What you are talking about are such dirty spots that have nothing to do with the main function of this show. If you really want to support you opinion on a show / movie you should talk about its main ideas. There is no way around it.
But can you?
Here are simple questions:
1) What is a character-driven story and how it is different from a plot-driven story?
2) How many charter archetypes do you know?
3) What are the main movie principles?
Can you answer these questions without googling them?
It is nothing wrong with you if you cannot, you do not have to be an expert in cinematography to just watch movies and form an opinion: "I like it" or "I do not like it".
Just please don't waste other people time on reading your arguments that have nothing to do with the show main ides. Your arguments do not support any opinion "like" or "dislike". They are just irrelevant.
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BrindamoursNose
Registered User
- Oct 14, 2008
- 20,359
- 14,500
Do you even know what a rack focus is, bruh.
What input are you adding to this discussion other than telling me I can't give the opinion I gave?
Tell me what I am incorrect about, or what is *great* about the Acolyte if you'd like to join the discussion. Otherwise, you're just some dude being snarky in the back of the classroom at someone who raised their hand.
I'm a little split.
I agree with the above that (not relevant to the most recent episode) Undarra, as a jedi master should have sensed the dagger and been able to stop two of them at once. I get that there's variance in proficiency with the force and it could well be that this was a time of peace so the standards for a master could be dulled somewhat but not to this extent. It's two knives. She can't focus on two things with all her training and experience? The jedi on Geonosis and in multiple clone wars episodes, plus episode 3 have to contend with a great deal of blaster fire to block/deflect it and she can't sense that a knife is about to kill her? I think that's a contrivance meant to expand on this idea that people in this galaxy can defeat lightsaber wielders but there's better, less ridiculous ways to do that.
As for this episode, I'm trying to be fair and not nitpick for sport but I do feel like there are issues. I'm fairly leftist and can't stand when conservatives cry woke as soon as they see one too many minorities or same sex couples simply existing, but even I couldn't help but feel that this coven backstory was drafted up, in large part, as this personal (for the writers) sapphic fantasy of a lesbionic society of women who can procreate without the need for a single man to be present. It's not like that concept makes me uncomfortable but the longer the episode progresses the less subtle the messaging becomes, and when your message dominates the tone, plot structure and narrative of your story, it becomes distracting.
This coven is shown to be, by and large, an ideal community that is supposed to be unfairly persecuted by the Republic and Jedi because their practice of force mastery doesn't follow the jedi dogma. The head witch indicates that their practice is "viewed" as dark but their central philosophy appears to be benign and structured around the coven's sense of unity and community. And realistically, the two biggest flaws shown by this coven are meant to, ultimately, paint them in a positive light while denigrating "traditional values" of the Republic and Jedi. The first, the head witch is shown to be willing to take feedback from the rest of the coven on whether to let either of her daughters leave and not all of them are in agreement with letting the jedi do what they want. But it's all in the interest of preserving their community. The second, they use dark magic to subdue one of the jedi, but they do that to ensure things don't escalate to violence and they let him go no worse for wear. Again, something sketchy but done to protect themselves.
On the other hand, the jedi are shown to be intruding on their culture and way of life to strip them of their young under the false guise of giving them a choice to give consent. They're still fairly coercive and manipulative, at least with Osha, and ultimately their presence and intrusion is the triggering factor that leads to Mae burning it all down. I don't have an issue with the pre-Luke Skywalker jedi being shown to be a problematic and dogmatic to a fault order. Lucas himself set the foundation for that with the prequels. And there's a fairly compelling enough question here with whether Mae is even remotely justified blaming the jedi for the fall of her coven since it was her own independent response to the jedi's interference that ultimately led to death and destruction.
My problem is that there's heavy favoritism drawn up for this anti-traditional community in how they are portrayed. Sure their customs and culture toe the line on potentially playing with evil forces, but past that, they're portrayed as a morally functional community, and on top of that, Osha's mother as head witch is still willing to let her make her own choices. Even with me scoffing at anti-woke bullshit that pervades all around the internet, I felt like this was a heavy-handed exercise in putting out a message of: trad values bad, progressive communities/non-traditional family structures/communities good and unfairly persecuted. There may well be some truth to that, but I resent the idea that people who live traditional lives are somehow in the wrong when, in reality, people should just be treated with equal due respect and dignity.
As it pertains to the rest of the show, I hope something more compelling comes out of Osha and Mae's respective world views that led to these events because on its face, Osha's willingness to abandon her family simply because she doesn't want to be tied to her twin seems weak.
That said, the griping about this being a retcon over how Anakin was conceived, I don't see the big deal. Palpatine said that Plagueis learned how to manipulate midichlorians to create life. He never said how. Whether we want to accept that midichlorians are a reality of this narrative universe or not, I see no reason why a Sith couldn't learn non-traditional abilities in the dark side from sources outside the Sith, and given the expansiveness of the galaxy and the mystical nature of the force I see no reason why there can't be factions alternative to the jedi and sith who develop different dogmas and methods around this kind of space magic. That said, I will admit the ascension ceremony and the accompanying song was borderline laughable.
I'm still willing to give the show the chance to deliver once the full product has been revealed but overall, I'm not super pleased with episode 3. On the other hand, I don't think it kills Star Wars like so many overdramatic fans like to say. The whole point of expanding past the mainline saga was to tell new stories and/or show new corners of this mythical galaxy. The mindset of "this isn't Star Wars", is kind of the point. It's not star wars as we knew it because the idea is we're supposed to be seeing more than what we've already been shown. As for the quality, I'll hold judgment until this show is near or at its finale.
I agree with the above that (not relevant to the most recent episode) Undarra, as a jedi master should have sensed the dagger and been able to stop two of them at once. I get that there's variance in proficiency with the force and it could well be that this was a time of peace so the standards for a master could be dulled somewhat but not to this extent. It's two knives. She can't focus on two things with all her training and experience? The jedi on Geonosis and in multiple clone wars episodes, plus episode 3 have to contend with a great deal of blaster fire to block/deflect it and she can't sense that a knife is about to kill her? I think that's a contrivance meant to expand on this idea that people in this galaxy can defeat lightsaber wielders but there's better, less ridiculous ways to do that.
As for this episode, I'm trying to be fair and not nitpick for sport but I do feel like there are issues. I'm fairly leftist and can't stand when conservatives cry woke as soon as they see one too many minorities or same sex couples simply existing, but even I couldn't help but feel that this coven backstory was drafted up, in large part, as this personal (for the writers) sapphic fantasy of a lesbionic society of women who can procreate without the need for a single man to be present. It's not like that concept makes me uncomfortable but the longer the episode progresses the less subtle the messaging becomes, and when your message dominates the tone, plot structure and narrative of your story, it becomes distracting.
This coven is shown to be, by and large, an ideal community that is supposed to be unfairly persecuted by the Republic and Jedi because their practice of force mastery doesn't follow the jedi dogma. The head witch indicates that their practice is "viewed" as dark but their central philosophy appears to be benign and structured around the coven's sense of unity and community. And realistically, the two biggest flaws shown by this coven are meant to, ultimately, paint them in a positive light while denigrating "traditional values" of the Republic and Jedi. The first, the head witch is shown to be willing to take feedback from the rest of the coven on whether to let either of her daughters leave and not all of them are in agreement with letting the jedi do what they want. But it's all in the interest of preserving their community. The second, they use dark magic to subdue one of the jedi, but they do that to ensure things don't escalate to violence and they let him go no worse for wear. Again, something sketchy but done to protect themselves.
On the other hand, the jedi are shown to be intruding on their culture and way of life to strip them of their young under the false guise of giving them a choice to give consent. They're still fairly coercive and manipulative, at least with Osha, and ultimately their presence and intrusion is the triggering factor that leads to Mae burning it all down. I don't have an issue with the pre-Luke Skywalker jedi being shown to be a problematic and dogmatic to a fault order. Lucas himself set the foundation for that with the prequels. And there's a fairly compelling enough question here with whether Mae is even remotely justified blaming the jedi for the fall of her coven since it was her own independent response to the jedi's interference that ultimately led to death and destruction.
My problem is that there's heavy favoritism drawn up for this anti-traditional community in how they are portrayed. Sure their customs and culture toe the line on potentially playing with evil forces, but past that, they're portrayed as a morally functional community, and on top of that, Osha's mother as head witch is still willing to let her make her own choices. Even with me scoffing at anti-woke bullshit that pervades all around the internet, I felt like this was a heavy-handed exercise in putting out a message of: trad values bad, progressive communities/non-traditional family structures/communities good and unfairly persecuted. There may well be some truth to that, but I resent the idea that people who live traditional lives are somehow in the wrong when, in reality, people should just be treated with equal due respect and dignity.
As it pertains to the rest of the show, I hope something more compelling comes out of Osha and Mae's respective world views that led to these events because on its face, Osha's willingness to abandon her family simply because she doesn't want to be tied to her twin seems weak.
That said, the griping about this being a retcon over how Anakin was conceived, I don't see the big deal. Palpatine said that Plagueis learned how to manipulate midichlorians to create life. He never said how. Whether we want to accept that midichlorians are a reality of this narrative universe or not, I see no reason why a Sith couldn't learn non-traditional abilities in the dark side from sources outside the Sith, and given the expansiveness of the galaxy and the mystical nature of the force I see no reason why there can't be factions alternative to the jedi and sith who develop different dogmas and methods around this kind of space magic. That said, I will admit the ascension ceremony and the accompanying song was borderline laughable.
I'm still willing to give the show the chance to deliver once the full product has been revealed but overall, I'm not super pleased with episode 3. On the other hand, I don't think it kills Star Wars like so many overdramatic fans like to say. The whole point of expanding past the mainline saga was to tell new stories and/or show new corners of this mythical galaxy. The mindset of "this isn't Star Wars", is kind of the point. It's not star wars as we knew it because the idea is we're supposed to be seeing more than what we've already been shown. As for the quality, I'll hold judgment until this show is near or at its finale.
Sad People
Registered User
- Jun 4, 2021
- 4,133
- 1,915
Theres so much open endedness to this show. I dunno how i feel about it. 1 side its good because its making people talk about their ideas or theories about whats going and the other side it makes me think that its just a result of bad writting. Which side is it?
No way those witches died because of the fire. Did the jedi or Mae have something to do with it? Is this the reason why the jedi who were involved feel so much regret? We only saw Oshas POV from that night and not Maes so something easily could have happened.
I dont think the twins were conceived from the force. I wanna know what the "how" is that the mother who "created" the twins was talking about. I dont think it ruins Anakins legacy as the chosen one either. I think the witches lean more towards magick than actual force user. Like when the mother who carried the twins took control of the padwan and made his eyes go black that wasnt the force that was more magick to me, her eyes are also sith yellow.
Its been awhile since i watched but what did the nightsisters and mother talezen do to Vasage? If i am remembering correctly could it be something similar or is my memory booty?
I think theres a lot of answeres that will be answered later on.
Again is it a good show? Nah not at all. Is it a bad show? Nah i dont think it is.
No way those witches died because of the fire. Did the jedi or Mae have something to do with it? Is this the reason why the jedi who were involved feel so much regret? We only saw Oshas POV from that night and not Maes so something easily could have happened.
I dont think the twins were conceived from the force. I wanna know what the "how" is that the mother who "created" the twins was talking about. I dont think it ruins Anakins legacy as the chosen one either. I think the witches lean more towards magick than actual force user. Like when the mother who carried the twins took control of the padwan and made his eyes go black that wasnt the force that was more magick to me, her eyes are also sith yellow.
Its been awhile since i watched but what did the nightsisters and mother talezen do to Vasage? If i am remembering correctly could it be something similar or is my memory booty?
I think theres a lot of answeres that will be answered later on.
Again is it a good show? Nah not at all. Is it a bad show? Nah i dont think it is.
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Sad People
Registered User
- Jun 4, 2021
- 4,133
- 1,915
Bounces R Way
Registered User
I think there's the makings of what could be a pretty good show here, the story I do think is interesting. The execution of it is just so clunky though.
Same lack of attention to detail that really diminished Obi-Wan and BoBF. Everything is just plot advancement and too much of it relies on convenience. Just gives it a comic book young adult feel that I struggle getting into tbh. Somebody at Disney needs to put the people slated to direct these shows through directors school because they're doing a very mid job of it. A bit more polish would go a real long way.
As far as how the Jedi Order is being portrayed, it's actually one of the things I think has been done well. They're at or near the height of their power, with thousands of Jedi scattered throughout the galaxy. Makes sense to me that the talent has been diluted and that they may not be as intuitive and powerful as our traditional idea of them is. That power corrupts is by no means a fresh new concept but in this case it's not sinister, more of a malaise and complacency that has allowed idiots like Jod or Jord or whatever that guy's name is to become a Jedi Knight.
Same lack of attention to detail that really diminished Obi-Wan and BoBF. Everything is just plot advancement and too much of it relies on convenience. Just gives it a comic book young adult feel that I struggle getting into tbh. Somebody at Disney needs to put the people slated to direct these shows through directors school because they're doing a very mid job of it. A bit more polish would go a real long way.
As far as how the Jedi Order is being portrayed, it's actually one of the things I think has been done well. They're at or near the height of their power, with thousands of Jedi scattered throughout the galaxy. Makes sense to me that the talent has been diluted and that they may not be as intuitive and powerful as our traditional idea of them is. That power corrupts is by no means a fresh new concept but in this case it's not sinister, more of a malaise and complacency that has allowed idiots like Jod or Jord or whatever that guy's name is to become a Jedi Knight.
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Very Stable Genius
#WeLostOurKarlssons
"OSHA!"
"MAE!"
"OSHA!"
"MAE!"
"OSHA?"
"MAE?"
"WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?"
"WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?"
Incredible dialogue. I'm done with SW until Andor S2 comes out.
"MAE!"
"OSHA!"
"MAE!"
"OSHA?"
"MAE?"
"WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?"
"WHAT HAVE YOU DONE?"
Incredible dialogue. I'm done with SW until Andor S2 comes out.
Stylizer1
Teflon Don
I was killed in episode 7, sorry.
johnjm22
Pseudo Intellectual
- Aug 2, 2005
- 20,541
- 16,963
I think one of the reasons medieval story telling endures is because of how gendered it is. Princesses in dresses, knights in shining armor, kings and queens. The setting allows for traditional gender roles, which I think most people enjoy in story context.
In modern Star Wars they're trying to create gender "equality", but I think it reduces both the masculinity and femininity of the characters (traditionally speaking), thus they become more bland. (Although I admit a coven of lesbian witches is pretty cool).
A cocky male and a beautiful princess are fun. I doubt Han or Leia could even be conceived of in modern SW.
NyQuil
Big F$&*in Q
We spend so much time talking about genders and representation when for me it’s about:
1. Is the story good?
2. Are the characters credible and believable?
3. Is it fun?
That’s it.
0 for 3 so far.
1. Is the story good?
2. Are the characters credible and believable?
3. Is it fun?
That’s it.
0 for 3 so far.
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
Reducing Leia to a "beautiful princess" is not understanding the character at all.
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