Online Series: Star Wars: The Acolyte on Disney+

[Hivemind]

Well not really. That was a blaster shot from probably the best bouny hunter in the galaxy at the time - a true Mandalorian warrior in Jango Fett, while staring down Count Dooku whom was right there of course. A bit more significant than a sneaky dagger from this evil twin person.

I could buy this argument if Jango did anything at all. But he didn't. None of the Mandalorian anti-Jedi tricks or weapons were used. No flame throwers or whipcords or jet packs or darts or beskar*. Jango didn't even move. He stood still, with his arm out, and just blasted Master Tabor a couple times. Count Dooku didn't do anything, either (didn't even draw his weapon). This wasn't some incredible match-up, it was a Jedi High Council member being ganked by a couple pistol shots.

*beskar wasn't a "thing" yet at this point, but that's a whole separate rant of mine for Mandalorian threads about how the "lore" is a hot mess of retcons and multiple writers

Further still, this is just one example. Tons of Jedi have had crummy deaths. Just watch the Order 66 scene, where Kai Adi Mundi is the only one who even puts up a fight. Not to mention the dozens of other Jedi who die in that same battle scene as Master Tabor. Jedi died like chumps all the time.

Indirra (spelled right?) is a core character, as we've learned. The scale is totally different when it comes to expectations. No matter what happens with her moving forward, barring this being the most special dagger in the world, I will forever think she died like a total chump for a character that is supposed to be meaningful to the story.

She's a character with some level of plot significance, but core? If she's "core," so are about 10 other characters. She didn't even appear in episode 2, and it's unclear which future episodes will also feature flashbacks of her. Moreover, the reason she's meaningful to the plot is precisely because she died. She's the instigating event, not the protagonist.

If you want to gripe about one of those Jedi dying like a chump - Master Torbin. Just poisoned himself, and did so without saving innocent civilians like Master Indara did. Not to mention - it's been 16 years since the events of the flashback (where he was a Padawan), and he hasn't talked to anyone in 10 years. So he went from Padawan to Master in 6 years? Hmmmm.

And there's a lot of reasons to dislike this show. We can't pretend it's been Mandalorian S1 or anything.

This is precisely my point. There are tons of legitimate reasons to hate on this show. Why are people so hung up on this nit-picky, invalid bullshit? Point out the terrible dialogue, miscast actors, inconsistent (at best) make-up and VFX, awkward pacing, etc etc etc. When people start ranting about daggers and space fires it just shows that folks are *trying* to hate the show, and looking for any excuse they can.

 

[Hivemind]

Star Wars has always had fake beards. Your internal head canon about characters having real beards all the time doesn't really hold true. Why are you only now getting mad about something that's been a frequent part of Star Wars? It's just another example of manufactured outrage because you're looking for reasons to hate this show.

Seriously, you don't need to repeatedly point out when something that people are criticizing has been in Star Wars before. That doesn't mean that they can't criticize it now (if not again). Now, if people actually suggest that it's never happened before (like Jedi never being killed in an embarrassing fashion or Star Wars never showing open flames in space) or that it wasn't dumb in the past, then sure, go right ahead and correct them on that, but that doesn't appear to be what's going on.

This is intentionally missing the point.

Just look at the rationale posters are giving for being offended at the dagger death. It makes Jedi look like "chumps" and ruins their "mystic" (still laughing at that typo, personally). They view it as being beneath the standard required for Jedi combat. Except prior Star Wars has shown that Jedi die by less than that all the time. Their own internal view of Jedi is simply not in line with how Jedi have been portrayed. That's why past incidents are relevant and important here.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Here is how your message looks like:

"My opinion is better than opinions of those professionals who won their jobs by competing with other professionals. They know less about writing scripts, then I do. It does not matter that I never read any books on writing, got no education in writing and no experience in writing scripts. I still know better, because it me, and not some other people."

If you do not want it to look like this, you need to bring some supporting evidence showing that you understand the subject you are talking about.

Isn’t that a little hypocritical? It’s a subjective opinion on a message board I don’t know why it’s gotta be so serious.

Star Wars is mid-quality, pop-culture, lowest common denominator, content owned by Disney. They tricked us with Mando S1 and 2 into thinking it’s going to be some huge turnaround and resurgence of Star Wars. It’s not.

These shows are not critically acclaimed and it’s not unreasonable to find the holes in the writing/plot glaring enough to not enjoy the shows or criticize them.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

I could buy this argument if Jango did anything at all. But he didn't. None of the Mandalorian anti-Jedi tricks or weapons were used. No flame throwers or whipcords or jet packs or darts or beskar*. Jango didn't even move. He stood still, with his arm out, and just blasted Master Tabor a couple times. Count Dooku didn't do anything, either (didn't even draw his weapon). This wasn't some incredible match-up, it was a Jedi High Council member being ganked by a couple pistol shots.

*beskar wasn't a "thing" yet at this point, but that's a whole separate rant of mine for Mandalorian threads about how the "lore" is a hot mess of retcons and multiple writers

Further still, this is just one example. Tons of Jedi have had crummy deaths. Just watch the Order 66 scene, where Kai Adi Mundi is the only one who even puts up a fight. Not to mention the dozens of other Jedi who die in that same battle scene as Master Tabor. Jedi died like chumps all the time.


She's a character with some level of plot significance, but core? If she's "core," so are about 10 other characters. She didn't even appear in episode 2, and it's unclear which future episodes will also feature flashbacks of her. Moreover, the reason she's meaningful to the plot is precisely because she died. She's the instigating event, not the protagonist.

If you want to gripe about one of those Jedi dying like a chump - Master Torbin. Just poisoned himself, and did so without saving innocent civilians like Master Indara did. Not to mention - it's been 16 years since the events of the flashback (where he was a Padawan), and he hasn't talked to anyone in 10 years. So he went from Padawan to Master in 6 years? Hmmmm.


This is precisely my point. There are tons of legitimate reasons to hate on this show. Why are people so hung up on this nit-picky, invalid bullshit? Point out the terrible dialogue, miscast actors, inconsistent (at best) make-up and VFX, awkward pacing, etc etc etc. When people start ranting about daggers and space fires it just shows that folks are *trying* to hate the show, and looking for any excuse they can.

My easy response is that all of those "crummy deaths" during Order 66 were on Jedi who were being surprise attacked by ally soldiers with guns. Infinitely more respectable than what Mae did to myself as a viewer. However, we also saw/know of Jedi who escaped that fate (like Yoda). Sometimes, power level matters in how well you deal with these things and what I learned when Mae killed Indarra is that Indarra is more of a chump than I thought - and it was my FIRST impression of her. Started me off on the wrong foot with the character immediately.

Well the show isn't over yet, so I'm not going to argue how core she is - but clearly the most famous actor on the show is part of the core, it appears.

Torbin killed himself, so no I don't consider that dying like a chump. Weakling? Maybe, but he died via torment and not because he couldn't pat his head & rub his belly simultaneously (like Indarra).

I'm not *that* hung up on this stuff. It's just what people reply to usually when I give a criticism. Like this wasn't that big of a talking point for me, but you replied so here we are.

 

[NyQuil]

Isn’t that a little hypocritical? It’s a subjective opinion on a message board I don’t know why it’s gotta be so serious.

Star Wars is mid-quality, pop-culture, lowest common denominator, content owned by Disney. They tricked us with Mando S1 and 2 into thinking it’s going to be some huge turnaround and resurgence of Star Wars. It’s not.

These shows are not critically acclaimed and it’s not unreasonable to find the holes in the writing/plot glaring enough to not enjoy the shows or criticize them.

Andor was critically acclaimed.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Let's take fire for example:

[lots of blabla]

The knife scene.

[more blabla]

Ok, I appreciate that you share your readings of these scenes - even if I think you're wrong and try to justify stuff with pseudo-significant intention - but please drop the "let me teach you something" tone, that's just ridiculous.

Well I have to say I appreciate you expanding on your comments & injecting what looks to be a lot of time in film school. And I think you know what you're talking about. Seriously.

[...]

Basically I'm just saying I think this is very high academic-critique

Please don't indulge him


edit: that being said, I've watched the first episode and thought it was more than ok, but yeah, it's SW and it won't suddenly be brilliant...

 

[x Tame Impala]

Andor was critically acclaimed.

8.4/10! How’d I miss that one? I might have to check that one out actually

 

[NyQuil]

8.4/10! How’d I miss that one? I might have to check that one out actually

It’s a bit slow starting but the pay off is worth it.

 

[Power Man]

Oooh Kathleen Kennedy, what are you doing….
Episode 3 was a disaster

 

[Hivemind]

8.4/10! How’d I miss that one? I might have to check that one out actually

Andor is legitimate prestige TV that just happens to have a Star Wars setting.

 

[Sombastate]

Andor is legitimate prestige TV that just happens to have a Star Wars setting.

So I’m looking for a new show to watch which is why I came in here to gauge the response to Acolyte. Obviously I’ll have Boys and HotD this week, but Andor should be added to the list?

 

[Hivemind]

So I’m looking for a new show to watch which is why I came in here to gauge the response to Acolyte. Obviously I’ll have Boys and HotD this week, but Andor should be added to the list?

Andor should absolutely be added to that list. It's my favorite show of the past few years. I realize I am a Star Wars geek, so that will influence my opinion, but I think Andor is great in spite of it being Star Wars not because it is Star Wars.

It is worth noting that Andor is more or less divided into three-episode "arcs," and it's probably worthwhile to at least watch the first arc in relatively quick succession (those three episodes were released all at once at the beginning of the series).

 

[Osprey]

Spoiler: Theory

I think that we're going to eventually get another flashback to that night in which it's revealed that the witches were killed by the Jedi, not by the fire or explosion, and Mae witnessed it from a distance. In the first scene of the show, Indara says that Jedi don't attack the unarmed and Mae says "Yes, you do." She probably said that because she saw them do exactly that 16 years ago. Also, massacring the unarmed is something that the four Jedi might genuinely feel great guilt over, especially the youngest, Torbin, who ended up putting himself into a Force coma and then committing suicide. When Mae told him that only she could offer him the absolution that he wanted, it's likely because they both thought that she was the only survivor of the massacre that he took part in. Giving up his life for her allowed him to atone for helping to take everything away from her as a child.

 

[Hint1k]

Ok, I appreciate that you share your readings of these scenes - even if I think you're wrong and try to justify stuff with pseudo-significant intention - but please drop the "let me teach you something" tone, that's just ridiculous.


Please don't indulge him


edit: that being said, I've watched the first episode and thought it was more than ok, but yeah, it's SW and it won't suddenly be brilliant...

Where did I teach you anything? You cited a message who is addressed to another poster.

Now let's actually teach you something. In this case - accountability.

And It is very simple lesson. Write a short text - 3/4 paragraphs explaining what writers of the show did right or did wrong. It does not matter what you choose. Take any scene from The Acolyte. Break it down. Explain - How it affects the plot? How it affects the characters? How it affects the viewer experience? What would you do better and how?

P.s. Your reaction to the post with combination of the highlighted text already told me all I need to know. Another attempt to lie. Mate, you are not deceiving me. You are deceiving yourself.

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

Where did I teach you anything? You cited a message who is addressed to another poster.

Well, if you didn't want others to read/react to your fancy knowledge posted on an internet forum, there's something called conversations in the upper right corner. Little private mailbox for you.

Now let's actually teach you something. In this case - accountability.

And It is very simple lesson. Write a short text - 3/4 paragraphs explaining what writers of the show did right or did wrong. It does not matter what you choose. Take any scene from The Acolyte. Break it down. Explain - How it affects the plot? How it affects the characters? How it affects the viewer experience? What would you do better and how?

Now wait a minute... I need to write what seems to be a high school homework so I can make fun of you? Will you be grading it?

P.s. The main point: This is not important to me. This is important to you.

Oh, it's important to you, and only you. Believe me. In case you haven't noticed, your screenwriting workshop is taking place in a thread about Star Wars.

You need to check yourself - do you actually know what you are talking about? Or you are deceiving first of all - yourself, pretending to have the understanding that is not there.

Well, at least you're funny.

 

[Hint1k]

1) Well, if you didn't want others to read/react to your fancy knowledge posted on an internet forum, there's something called conversations in the upper right corner. Little private mailbox for you.


2) Now wait a minute... I need to write what seems to be a high school homework so I can make fun of you? Will you be grading it?


3) Oh, it's important to you, and only you. Believe me. In case you haven't noticed, your screenwriting workshop is taking place in a thread about Star Wars.


4) Well, at least you're funny.

1) Learn to speak for yourself, not for other people and feel free to ignore messages that are not addressed to you.

2) No, you need to prove the claim you made. Or don't make claims that require explanations.

3) Wrong again. For me it is important that you stop claiming expertise you do not posses.

4) Well, you are not. You made a classic mistake of thinking: "just because I am generally speaking a smart person, I am able to talk about anything and look like an expert".

Here is surprise for you - it only works until you meet someone who actually have better understanding of the topic you chose to talk about.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Imagine a 5 year old kid sitting alone in a room with no any other kids in a house. He is surrounded with a bunch of opened jars. And from top to bottom is covered with jam. With a straight face he is saying

This is too boring to keep up with you lost me. I’m going to watch Andor because apparently it’s awesome but by most accounts this show sucks just like most all of the entire Disney SW catalogue. Enjoy the rest of the series pal I’m out

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

This is too boring to keep up with you lost me. I’m going to watch Andor because apparently it’s awesome but by most accounts this show sucks just like most all of the entire Disney SW catalogue. Enjoy the rest of the series pal I’m out

Andor was indeed the best of all these series (don't ask me why I've watched them all), but this one is only three episodes old, and really not that bad IMO (just watched the last two).

 

[Pranzo Oltranzista]

1) Learn to speak for yourself, not for other people and feel free to ignore messages that are not addressed to you.

2) No, you need to prove the claim you made. Or don't make claims that require explanations.

3) Wrong again. For me it is important that you stop claiming expertise you do not posses.

4) Well, you are not. You made a classic mistake of thinking: "just because I am generally speaking a smart person, I am able to talk about anything and look like an expert".

5) Here is surprise for you - it only works until you meet someone who actually have better understanding of the topic you chose to talk about.

[It seems my first answer to this was judged inappropriate so I'll try again without using any terms related to the circus]

1) Don't pretend I spoke for anybody else than myself, and don't post on a message board if you don't want people to react to your opinions.

2) I didn't make any particular claim other than yours were simple and wrong - I also advised to drop the "let me teach you something" tone, which clearly went over your head.

3) I didn't claim expertise (not in this thread anyway), so don't try to make this argument anything else than what it is.

4) I am generally speaking a smart person? Well thank you very much. (I think this was verbatim my original answer to this - I take for granted it's polite enough)

and 5) I politely ask again what is the topic on which you pretend you have more understanding than me (or anyone else here) ?

Because, clearly, you are the only one who claims expertise. And you seem to think that you did backed that up pretty solidly... I mean:

- You did tell someone that they seriously should read about the difference between fiction and documentaries (!) and backed yourself with a link to a post on Quora (woah).

- You did claim that it was better to have a fire in space in fiction because more thought-provoking.

- You did use big words like foreshadowing.

I guess that's what experts do. How would I know?

 

[Hasbro]

Andor should absolutely be added to that list. It's my favorite show of the past few years. I realize I am a Star Wars geek, so that will influence my opinion, but I think Andor is great in spite of it being Star Wars not because it is Star Wars.

It is worth noting that Andor is more or less divided into three-episode "arcs," and it's probably worthwhile to at least watch the first arc in relatively quick succession (those three episodes were released all at once at the beginning of the series).

I worship at the Altar of Andor. When Disney does their creative reassement, that needs to be the arceatype they look at.

 

[Hasbro]

Just my quick-hit opinion as a dude who dislikes the show, but is a pretty liberal dude

• Fires technically can't happen in space, but they have in SW before so I don't even care. That's certainly not something I think damages the show. I think it's weird they even needed to have her put fires outside the ship. Why not just be a mechanic in the ship? Blah whatever.
• The knife shouldn't be enough to stop a Jedi as-in it shouldn't have been able to even get to Undarra's heart in the first place (since she's a Master and should've been able to sense it probably). Makes Undarra look super weak when I want her to be pretty strong. So that bums me out as a fan.
• The witches with the babies? I'm fine with that. Whatever. But it is pretty performative IMO. Like is there a reason we needed to know Quorra carried the twins instead of just saying the mother (forget her name) created them using the Force? Like did we *need* to know who carried the kids? That's where I can see why people feel an agenda is afoot.

Franz Ferdinand died due to a wrong turn, Zachory Taylor might have been killed by Cherries and Cream, Houdini died because he dared people to gut punch him. Dumb happens.

Anyway, it was supposed to be the trolley problem put into action.

 

[John Price]

The disney+ star wars universe has not been very well received and this show is no different. It just seems like they are pushing out so much mediocre content like they did with Marvel. When you mess up Obi Wan that's a problem.

As much as I disliked the Mandalorian season 1 let's admit that was the apex and it just petered out from there

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

How dare these people accuse me of being a Star Wars fan, they're all misogynist, racist, homophobic right wing extremist, Trump loving, indoctrinated bigots!

 

[The Great Mighty Poo]

The disney+ star wars universe has not been very well received and this show is no different. It just seems like they are pushing out so much mediocre content like they did with Marvel. When you mess up Obi Wan that's a problem.

As much as I disliked the Mandalorian season 1 let's admit that was the apex and it just petered out from there

Post Deadpool's release, Disney just needs to completely clean house, cancel everything and just start over, it went from infuriating, to annoying, to sad, to just flat out comical at this point, they seriously have no f***ing clue how to write a story, craft a character or do anything.

 

[kingsfan28]

As much as all the fanboys wanted Filoni to run things and thought everything would be golden like when Lucas was in charge, it hasn't. If anything, he's more like Lucas when it comes to not knowing how to execute is vision. Nothing he's done so far has really stuck with me, including his directing on the Mandalorian/BOBF . His future SW project has a lot riding on it.