Movies: Star Wars: Episode VIII THE LAST JEDI (NO SPOILERS - Use the other thread for spoilers)

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

It was even a friggen commercial. The stick thin model beating the hell out of 200 pound men is rife today. Charlize was kicking the **** out of everyone while looking great in stilettos for her last role.

How can you even argue that it isn't happening? Rey, the skinny pretty young woman beats the big badass Sith while needing no training. It's almost a movie stereotype now.

Kylo Ren is not a Sith.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

Kylo Ren is not a Sith.

Fine. An almost Sith. He's as much a Sith as Darth Vader was when he turned.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Context isn't important I guess.

Anakin got owned by Count Dooku, so I guess it really just took away from his power. Or, maybe it was that Anakin was not fully developed as a Jedi yet...

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Fine. An almost Sith. He's as much a Sith as Darth Vader was when he turned.

First of all, the Sith does not exist in this trilogy.

Second, that doesn't mean he was as developed as Anakin/Darth Vader was at that point. Not every "beginner Sith" starts at the same level. Anakin was labeled as the strongest Jedi ever, so to compare Ren to him is ridiculous to begin with.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

First of all, the Sith does not exist in this trilogy.

Second, that doesn't mean he was as developed as Anakin/Darth Vader was at that point. Not every "beginner Sith" starts at the same level. Anakin was labeled as the strongest Jedi ever, so to compare Ren to him is ridiculous to begin with.

Hey, you're the one who started with the distinct (by the book) labels. Now you are trying to give different levels for the almost label?

That doesn't seem fair.

So the Sith went extinct? That boss guy looks pretty Sith-like.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Hey, you're the one who started with the distinct (by the book) labels. Now you are trying to give different levels for the almost label?

That doesn't seem fair.

So the Sith went extinct? That boss guy looks pretty Sith-like.

No, I said it doesn't exist.. but even if it does exist, the comparison is poor.

 

[BonMorrison]

I'm wondering how many more times I have to see the "why did Kylo get his ass kicked" people get rekt by people who understand context and character development before I have an aneurysm.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Anakin got owned by Count Dooku, so I guess it really just took away from his power. Or, maybe it was that Anakin was not fully developed as a Jedi yet...

Poor example.

One Anakin was protagonist they are meant to face challenges if he just showed up and beat Dooku that would suck, no tension.. but then in the story Dooku has been a Jedi Master for what? 60 years, was Anakin even a Knight at that point?

Here we have someone who has been trained for lets be modest and say he has been trained in the Force for a decade getting straight up owned by someone who didn't even know about the Force for what..3 hours before?

He isn't exactly a credible villain now.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Kylo Ren certainly knows the tricks and how to do them in a specific context, but considering THE FORCE DEALS WITH THE MENTAL AND NOT SO MUCH THE PHYSICAL Kylo Ren is unable to harness his power nearly well enough when things go poorly for him. He is incredibly conflicted mentally which hurts his abilities.

Remember how Luke Skywalker was able to just "use the force" without any training to guide a proton torpedo into a small vent? He was able to do it because he let go and was mentally ready to make it happen.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

It looks even worse considering how damaged Rey was at that point in the fight just watching her mentor get killed right in front of her and her only friend probably get killed.

She should have been a crying mess.

 

[RobBrown4PM]

I'm wondering how many more times I have to see the "why did Kylo get his ass kicked" people get rekt by people who understand context and character development before I have an aneurysm.

Rekt? The argument is coming fast and furious from all sides. When so many are asking the same question I would imagine there is some validity to it.

 

[HanSolo]

I'm wondering how many more times I have to see the "why did Kylo get his ass kicked" people get rekt by people who understand context and character development before I have an aneurysm.

At least a thousand.

 

[HanSolo]

Rekt? The argument is coming fast and furious from all sides. When so many are asking the same question I would imagine there is some validity to it.

I and many other sources answered your question numerous times throughout the last two years. You just refuse to accept it as valid. I suppose you'd only be okay with Kylo losing to Rey if Chewie blew his arms off.

 

[HanSolo]

It looks even worse considering how damaged Rey was at that point in the fight just watching her mentor get killed right in front of her and her only friend probably get killed.

She should have been a crying mess.

Cause angry and wanting revenge isn't a sensible response?

 

[BonMorrison]

Literally two years.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Poor example.

One Anakin was protagonist they are meant to face challenges if he just showed up and beat Dooku that would suck, no tension.. but then in the story Dooku has been a Jedi Master for what? 60 years, was Anakin even a Knight at that point?

Here we have someone who has been trained for lets be modest and say he has been trained in the Force for a decade getting straight up owned by someone who didn't even know about the Force for what..3 hours before?

He isn't exactly a credible villain now.

But Anakin was supposed to be the greatest ever, and he even thought so. And went on to get his ass kicked. Hmm... someone thinking they're stronger than they are... sounds familiar.

It's clear that they were making the point that Ren is not fully developed yet. That. Is. The. Point. There is a character arc for a bad guy.. what's so terrible about that? I, for one, am glad they don't just insert Ren as a total badass. They are actually trying to develop him with time. How terrible! How does that not make him credible? That's ridiculous. He will have completed his training heading into this one and will be stronger. That was the whole point of this, and you seem to ignore it. Not to mention he was just shot with a blaster that kills most people. Also, it was a lightsaber dual. Rey has practice with her little stick thingy or whatever it's called, so it's not like she was totally without combat in her life. Once she channeled her inner force (like how Anakin does in Episode I, or Luke does in his training), she was able to overcome an opponent that overestimated his own skills and was weakened considerably.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

Cause angry and wanting revenge isn't a sensible response?

That is not the Jedi way

 

[HanSolo]

That is not the Jedi way

Ooh. That might apply it Rey was a Jedi. And still, no it doesn't.

Luke almost kills Vader in pure anger before checking himself.

 

[OhCaptainMyCaptain]

Ooh. That might apply it Rey was a Jedi. And still, no it doesn't.

Luke almost kills Vader in pure anger before checking himself.

This one clearly does not understand the force.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

So enough about the Mary Sue right now, what does everyone think about the possibility of Luke dying?

I mean it would fit everything we have seen in Star Wars so far and his death would probably be the only ones who well also kind of doesn't really matter since he can come back as a ghost but whatever.

How do you feel they are treating Luke in the new movies?

 

[HanSolo]

This one clearly does not understand the force.

I just think it's amusing he moans about Rey beating Ren with no training and then in the same gripe expects her to have learned "the Jedi way"...with no training.

 

[CokenoPepsi]

I just don't get why some of you are such denial about her being a mary sue.. does it really matter that much?

 

[Mr Fahrenheit]

So enough about the Mary Sue right now, what does everyone think about the possibility of Luke dying?

I mean it would fit everything we have seen in Star Wars so far and his death would probably be the only ones who well also kind of doesn't really matter since he can come back as a ghost but whatever.

How do you feel they are treating Luke in the new movies?

I think Luke becomes a villain and will be around for IX

 

[CokenoPepsi]

I think Luke becomes a villain and will be around for IX

Luke become a villain? Wow that would really piss off the fanboys. Can you imagine then a team of Rey/Finn/Poe/Ren teaming up to take down the evil Luke Skywalker?

 

[HanSolo]

I just don't get why some of you are such denial about her being a mary sue.. does it really matter that much?

There's a difference between the Mary Sue argument, (which I've admitted has legs and is pretty undeniable as a whole) and willfully ignoring the context of how Rey beat Kylo. Being super good with tech, pulling off a force mind trick, evading capture in a heavily guarded military instillation. These are valid Mary Sue complaints. Managing to best a deeply wounded foe who wasn't trying to kill her after being on the defensive for 90% of the fight is not.