Online Series: Star Wars: Ahsoka (August 23rd)

[Tawnos]

I think it just comes down to how we interpreted and experienced those scenes. I've mentioned a number of times I don't have a fleshed out understanding of where Rebels Ashoka was at past her duel with Vader, but even with my lack of experience with the rest of the story I felt this episode served an entirely different purpose for her character. It's not reckoning with who Ashoka was in the scope of Darth Vader's former padawan and someone who turned her back on the Jedi Order. To me it read like it's about who she is now in the wake of the Galactic Civil War, who she is after failing to mentor Sabine, who she is as a hero in this post war time. People don't necessarily go through character growth once and they're absolved of any future self doubt, uncertainty, etc.

I kind of resent that. I tried watching Rebels and enjoyed parts of it but couldn't bring myself to sit through the stuff clearly tailored for kids to get to the good parts. There was better payoff for that kind of tolerance in Clone Wars. It just wasn't my cup of tea at the time and maybe I'll come back to it later. I'm also behind on the Bad Batch and the last season of Clone Wars that came out in the Disney era. I don't think that makes me or anyone else "not a Star Wars fan".

And personally I don't find Ashoka to be devalued as a live action creative work just because I didn't fully immerse myself in Rebels canon. It's still been a solid show without knowledge needed to appreciate nods and callbacks. Though I found both animated iterations of Ashoka to be a bit more compelling from a character perspective than this older/more experienced one.

I agree, the whole thing with her and Anakin absolutely served a different purpose for her character than her duel with Vader in Rebels. 100%.

I think it’s an interesting concept as a whole actually, because while I do think it was a Force vision and she was never actually in the World Between Worlds, I also think Anakin-as-Force-ghost was an active participant with agency.

And one thing that occurs to me as I further absorb the episode. There’s a symmetry here with Ahsoka and Obi Wan regarding the aftermath of Anakin’s fall. Both needed two confrontations with him to find real closure and move on. Obi Wan gets his first on Mustafar and his second on that barren moon in the Kenobi show. Ahsoka gets her first on Malachor in Rebels and her second in a Force vision in this last episode. In both cases, their first fight is driven by resolve and emotion. In both cases, their second ends with deciding not to strike him down (even though Ahsoka’s Anakin wasn’t even really alive) and a deeper understanding of themselves, allowing them to move past whatever they had bound up in Anakin. At least seemingly for Ahsoka. We know Obi Wan goes on to his reconnection to the Force to the point he can become a Force ghost. Ahsoka the White seems to be in a similar place.

 

[GabeTravels]

One thing the Clone Wars scenes in this episode really drove home is how young Ahsoka was. It's easy to forget in the animated shows that she was essentially a child soldier. I thought the actress who played her was fantastic playing a young Ahsoka. And Hayden...it's just so damn cool to have him back as Anakin. The way he delivered his lines was like a perfect combination of him and Lanter's version of Anakin from TCW. And of course he had to do the patented Anakin behind the back lightsaber twirl.

Young Ahsoka honestly shook me. It's a great performance and really underscores just how wrong and awful the Jedi Order was to have Padawans in battle.

Hayden was spectacular as well, and I agree that he bridged the gap between animated and live action Anakin perfectly.

 

[RandV]

You know what bugs me the most here? I know it's always been in Star Wars, and kind of a pet peeve of mine for sci-fi in general, but I feel like this is the most erroneous example as you're the new Republic now and at peace. All this back and forth talk about this being against the order for Hera... and no one seems to concern themselves with the fact that two just straight up died, their X-Wings destroyed. No recognition, no remorse, no consequence, just eh whatever. I mean it's not going to ruin my day or drop my opinion of the show or whatever, just a casual disregard of life has always kind of bugged me in sci-fi. Something about being an advanced future society cool but life is valued like it's the 1800's again bugs me.

I say it's the most erroneous example for Star Wars here because it wasn't really necessary and it's really really silly if you stop to think about it all. Like imagine you're watching Top Gun and Maverick pulls off one of his stunts disregarding orders again. Except in the process Phoenix and Bob crash into the side of a cliff and die... and then are immediately forgotten and never mentioned again. Mavericks' in trouble for disregarding orders but not that much because he was right or something, but wait were we forgetting about someone? No? Okay then just don't do that again Maverick.

 

[Bounces R Way]

I bleed when Chopper speaks. He's so damn cheesy!

the movie fans deserve but Disney will never give us

You know what bugs me the most here? I know it's always been in Star Wars, and kind of a pet peeve of mine for sci-fi in general, but I feel like this is the most erroneous example as you're the new Republic now and at peace. All this back and forth talk about this being against the order for Hera... and no one seems to concern themselves with the fact that two just straight up died, their X-Wings destroyed. No recognition, no remorse, no consequence, just eh whatever. I mean it's not going to ruin my day or drop my opinion of the show or whatever, just a casual disregard of life has always kind of bugged me in sci-fi.

I say it's the most erroneous example for Star Wars here because it wasn't really necessary and it's really really silly if you stop to think about it all. Like imagine you're watching Top Gun and Maverick pulls off one of his stunts disregarding orders again. Except in the process Phoenix and Bob crash into the side of a cliff and die... and then are immediately forgotten and never mentioned again. Mavericks' in trouble for disregarding orders but not that much because he was right or something, but wait were we forgetting about someone? No? Okay then just don't do that again Maverick.

Justice for Porkins

Something about being an advanced future society cool but life is valued like it's the 1800's again bugs me.

Something tells me you're going to hate the 2030s then

 

[hotcabbagesoup]

You know what bugs me the most here? I know it's always been in Star Wars, and kind of a pet peeve of mine for sci-fi in general, but I feel like this is the most erroneous example as you're the new Republic now and at peace. All this back and forth talk about this being against the order for Hera... and no one seems to concern themselves with the fact that two just straight up died, their X-Wings destroyed. No recognition, no remorse, no consequence, just eh whatever. I mean it's not going to ruin my day or drop my opinion of the show or whatever, just a casual disregard of life has always kind of bugged me in sci-fi. Something about being an advanced future society cool but life is valued like it's the 1800's again bugs me.

I say it's the most erroneous example for Star Wars here because it wasn't really necessary and it's really really silly if you stop to think about it all. Like imagine you're watching Top Gun and Maverick pulls off one of his stunts disregarding orders again. Except in the process Phoenix and Bob crash into the side of a cliff and die... and then are immediately forgotten and never mentioned again. Mavericks' in trouble for disregarding orders but not that much because he was right or something, but wait were we forgetting about someone? No? Okay then just don't do that again Maverick.

Agreed.

This is why I can't even watch Star Wars anymore.

 

[LarKing]

Not to play god but I’d argue losing two men in an attempt to stop another galactic war is a small price to pay. I kindve wished she would have just gotten clearance because that whole part of the plot feels so unnecessary.

 

[Dubi Doo]

I'm enjoying it so far. I'm about halfway through episode 5. At least there's a Star Wars show holding my attention again!

 

[Hivemind]

Not to play god but I’d argue losing two men in an attempt to stop another galactic war is a small price to pay. I kindve wished she would have just gotten clearance because that whole part of the plot feels so unnecessary.

I don't think anyone is saying that it's not "worth it." I believe what's being said is the lack of reaction to their deaths pierces the veil of suspension of disbelief. This wasn't an active warzone, and these pilots all knew each other by name. The fact that everyone involved was able to just move on instantly without any grief for those they lost is kinda absurd, if you stop to think about it. Even in comparison to the show, where Huyang and Hera are freaking out about Sabine and Ahsoka possibly dying, neither Hera or Tevo seem to even care that they watched 2 others die in front of them.

For comparison, here are some examples of how characters react to deaths in Andor


(and really this scene continues afterwards into much more relevant stuff, but I can't find that part on YouTube)

And not to mention, the whole plot of Andor is instigated by Syril Karn refusing to turn a blind eye to the death of two corporate security officers

 

[Warden of the North]

What the f*** was THAT?

Holy shit that was stupid. Sorry guys I'm just not into childrens tales. Why did they make everything so damn convoluted and stupid.

Space Slugs???? REALLY? Thats the ONLY thing they could think of? Make a MacGuffin to set up SPACE SLUGS????? THAT GO THROUGH HYPERSPACE? haahahahahahahahah

What do they shit the force next?

Welp kids, I AM OUT.

I'll cancel Disney plus until Andor comes out. Star Wars is pure trash. How about just tell a good f***ing story for ONCE.

SPACE SLUGS THAT SHIT HYPERSPACE.

Great one, Dave

Star Wars, noted not children's content.

LMAO

 

[Warden of the North]

That episode was outstanding. It actually had emotional impact to it. Wow

 

[HanSolo]

Young Ahsoka honestly shook me. It's a great performance and really underscores just how wrong and awful the Jedi Order was to have Padawans in battle.

Hayden was spectacular as well, and I agree that he bridged the gap between animated and live action Anakin perfectly.

To say nothing of how well Hayden can play the character with a decent script and a competent director. Those little bites of Anakin easily eclipse anything he did in the prequels.

To add, I'm glad he's gotten a couple more chances with it too. Hayden seems like a good dude.

 

[Dubi Doo]

You know what bugs me the most here? I know it's always been in Star Wars, and kind of a pet peeve of mine for sci-fi in general, but I feel like this is the most erroneous example as you're the new Republic now and at peace. All this back and forth talk about this being against the order for Hera... and no one seems to concern themselves with the fact that two just straight up died, their X-Wings destroyed. No recognition, no remorse, no consequence, just eh whatever. I mean it's not going to ruin my day or drop my opinion of the show or whatever, just a casual disregard of life has always kind of bugged me in sci-fi. Something about being an advanced future society cool but life is valued like it's the 1800's again bugs me.

I say it's the most erroneous example for Star Wars here because it wasn't really necessary and it's really really silly if you stop to think about it all. Like imagine you're watching Top Gun and Maverick pulls off one of his stunts disregarding orders again. Except in the process Phoenix and Bob crash into the side of a cliff and die... and then are immediately forgotten and never mentioned again. Mavericks' in trouble for disregarding orders but not that much because he was right or something, but wait were we forgetting about someone? No? Okay then just don't do that again Maverick.

I may be wrong here, but the senate said they may strip her of her command. I'm not sure if they'll dive any deeper into it, but there may be consequences for her actions in the next episode when Hera returns to the senate.

On a separate note, I finished the episode. I've really enjoyed the entire series thus far. The actress who plays Ashoka has killed it, imo. Even the little things like folding her arms reminds me of the (admittedly little bit) Clone Wars episodes I've seen with Ashoka in it. I'm a big fan of her calm and cool demeanor. She's quiet and not very expressive, which tells me she's very aware of the situations at hand and is rarely overwhelmed. She listens to people very well. Almost reading them like a poker player. She just gives off Jedi vibes to me even though she claims not to be one.

Oh, and I actually liked the whales. The fact she's the whale whisper is pretty badass.

 

[Dubi Doo]

To each their own, but I don't think Rebels is a "children's tale." At least no moreso than any other Star Wars.

The Purrgil are expanded on pretty decently in Rebels, and feel part of the world/mythology in my opinion. They establish that the hyperdrive was invented after studying them. Works for me, maybe not you.

I think it's worthy to criticize the show not bringing non-Rebels viewers more up to speed. Definitely a downside to a show within this connected universe. But for me and pretty much everyone I've talked to that's seen Rebels, the show is hitting very well.

I've only seen bits and pieces of both shows, but I'm loving this show. It may help that I know of characters like Thrawn. I've never seen him in action. He's like a myth to me. Everything I've heard about him says he's one of the most wicked villains in Star Wars history. A true psychopath. So, in some sense, only knowing the myth of Thrawn has me extremely excited to see him in action. It'd be like seeing Genghis Khan in action instead of just reading some history about him.

 

[Warden of the North]

To each their own, but I don't think Rebels is a "children's tale." At least no moreso than any other Star Wars.

The Purrgil are expanded on pretty decently in Rebels, and feel part of the world/mythology in my opinion. They establish that the hyperdrive was invented after studying them. Works for me, maybe not you.

I think it's worthy to criticize the show not bringing non-Rebels viewers more up to speed. Definitely a downside to a show within this connected universe. But for me and pretty much everyone I've talked to that's seen Rebels, the show is hitting very well.

I know only the very basic storylines from CW and Rebels and found it completely fine to follow. The Clone Wars flashbacks are easy enough to understand to anyone who's watched the prequel trilogy and the World between Worlds or whatever its called is a fairly straightforward fantasy/sci-fi trope that a little bit of imagination can be understood to acceptable amounts.

 

[MadDevil]

For anybody who wants to "quickly" catch up with TCW and Rebels...

 

[beowulf]

Haven't really chimed in on this series yet but so far I am liking it. The links and continuations of ideas from Clone War and Rebels shows. Seeing certain characters in flesh and blood (as it were) etc. has made this a good one so far on par with the first season of the Mandalorian. Chopper in the real is fun!

 

[Baby Punisher]

You really have to suspend reality when you watch Star Wars, but some of the things that happen in Ahsoka really push that to the limits. The flying whales with hyperdrive are just too much. Just when I thought I saw it all with Ahsoka defying the laws of gravity in space the whales show up. Not just any whales mind you. Flying space whales.

The pacing is either too slow or too fast. It feels like it's all over the place.

The show isn't terrible, it's not great either. I got goosebumps when I saw Anakin appear, I liked their scenes together.

 

[Superman33]

Y'all are up in here arguing about the Space Whales* instead of talking about how great some of the shots were in this episode. They did shots like this twice, of which this is the 2nd time. The first one was him running off into the distance during the battle and young Ahsoka sees a similar effect from behind. Loved it.

*I have watch Clone Wars and Rebels. Knowing Ahsoka was coming, I wanted to piece together the full storyline. Some of those episodes and storylines are straight up for kids which made them hard to get through, but others were great. In a fantastical universe such as Star Wars, when Space Whales show up I'm of the opinion that you go with it.

 

[RandV]

Yeah I don't know about Rebels but I have no problems with Space Whales. Star Wars is space fantasy, not sci-fi, there's already been giant asteroid worms and general laws of physic's are routinely ignored. An organic hyper drive? We don't even know what a hyper drive is supposed to be technically, so why not. And if you're going to make a migratory 'space' something whales are a very good choice as that's basically what they do. They'll give birth in Hawaii, head down to South America for a feeding season, make the trek North to Alaska to hit those grounds up, and so on. They are intelligent very long distance migratory animals.

 

[MadDevil]

Y'all are up in here arguing about the Space Whales* instead of talking about how great some of the shots were in this episode. They did shots like this twice, of which this is the 2nd time. The first one was him running off into the distance during the battle and young Ahsoka sees a similar effect from behind. Loved it.

*I have watch Clone Wars and Rebels. Knowing Ahsoka was coming, I wanted to piece together the full storyline. Some of those episodes and storylines are straight up for kids which made them hard to get through, but others were great. In a fantastical universe such as Star Wars, when Space Whales show up I'm of the opinion that you go with it.

The shot from behind was even better to me because you see Anakin leading the clones and then when it switches to Vader he's all alone. The voice when he says "You lack conviction" was pretty damn good too. I know part of the terror of Vader is the suit, but man the fighter he would have been if Obi-Wan hadn't maimed him on Mustafar...

 

[Tawnos]

Yeah I don't know about Rebels but I have no problems with Space Whales. Star Wars is space fantasy, not sci-fi, there's already been giant asteroid worms and general laws of physic's are routinely ignored. An organic hyper drive? We don't even know what a hyper drive is supposed to be technically, so why not. And if you're going to make a migratory 'space' something whales are a very good choice as that's basically what they do. They'll give birth in Hawaii, head down to South America for a feeding season, make the trek North to Alaska to hit those grounds up, and so on. They are intelligent very long distance migratory animals.

The story goes that the first interstellar travelers discovered hyperspace lanes by following the purgills. I love that idea, personally.

 

[#37]

The shot from behind was even better to me because you see Anakin leading the clones and then when it switches to Vader he's all alone. The voice when he says "You lack conviction" was pretty damn good too. I know part of the terror of Vader is the suit, but man the fighter he would have been if Obi-Wan hadn't maimed him on Mustafar...

Lord Vader didn't have to fight, he only did so to amuse himself. The force was his ally. Why fight when you can force choke someone who isn't even in the same room as you... His suit and combat prowess were fearsome, sure, but his command of the force is what was feared.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Not the most entertaining episode, but it sets up the two final ones nicely.

 

[GabeTravels]

Loved live action Thrawn and the Dathomiri!

Score was on point. Definitely a transition episode though.

 

[HanSolo]

I enjoyed it. My only real complaints are:

1. The opening effect of hyperspace and the purgills looked laughably cheap. Like I get that hyperspace might look different when it's a biological species doing it but the old-new effect Disney has been using was fine. The effect here was laughable.

2. Not enough Ashoka in an Ashoka show again.

But that said it was a good Sabine episode and I enjoyed the sort of self contained adventure she went on in the way I enjoyed season 1 of Mando episodes. Good progression on Baylan and his apprentice, solid reveals. Only one real action scene but that's fine.

Spoiler

I can't remember if I actually watched episodes of Rebels with Thrawn or YouTube clips but I thought the introduction of the character was well handled and Lars Mikkelsen is off to an awesome start. Wasn't expecting the Ezra reveal so quickly. A bit annoying that Sabine isn't in more of a rush to tell Ezra what the circumstances are so they can plan accordingly in a hurry, but I understand that's how a drama series operates sometimes. Even the best prestige dramas will have characters keep their mouths shut with necessary information another character should know to keep the episodic narrative flow compelling.