Online Series: Star Wars: Ahsoka (August 23rd)

[Hivemind]

On the plus side:
At least this was the first episode of "Ahsoka" where the focus was firmly placed on Ahsoka herself and her development as a character, rather than Sabine, Thrawn, or the quest to find Ezra.

On the minus side:
The f***ing Purgill are back. I mean, everyone who watched Rebels knew what was coming and that they'd be the way out there. But the Purgill were stupid is Rebels (easily the second worst part of that show), and bringing them back again was not a choice I wanted (yet we all knew was coming as soon as they appeared in Mando season 3).

It also doesn't help that the second stupidest part of Rebels (the world between worlds/time travel) also is making an appearance again.

Also on the minus side:
I thought I would get over the "uncanny valley" of the make-up & costumes eventually, but it's not happening. In particular the younger Ahsoka really made the show feel like cosplay for a while there. CGI de-aged Anakin didn't help either.

And on the big detraction side:
Having Ahsoka and Anakin/Vader fight again is just fan service that undercuts their duel in Rebels (which was also lessened by Ezra going back in time as the explanation for Ahsoka living). It's basically like what happened in much of the Obi Wan series. We already had this great emotional payoff between Ahsoka and Anakin, but since it happened in cartoon form they decided to shoehorn another one into the live action (despite the fact that only those who watched the cartoons in the first place will have any attachment to their confrontation).

 

[Hivemind]

To each their own, but I don't think Rebels is a "children's tale." At least no moreso than any other Star Wars.

Big disagree. For as good as the peak moments in Rebels (and even Clone Wars) are, they are still very much young-adult shows. The protagonists tends to be coming-of-age stories (including Ahsoka herself being one of these). There are episodes were characters learn life lessons. The plots are very suitable for pre-teens and teenagers. They shoe-horn in cameos and familiar faces (although now apparently all of Star Wars media does that). Adults can definitely enjoy Rebels (or Clone Wars or Bad Batch), but it's still very much content designed for kids and young adults. Even more so than other Star Wars.

 

[HanSolo]

I thought the whales were fine. Not the best plot device ever used in Star Wars but not the worst either.

Good episode overall but the flashback stuff was better than the last third or so.

And on the big detraction side:
Having Ahsoka and Anakin/Vader fight again is just fan service that undercuts their duel in Rebels (which was also lessened by Ezra going back in time as the explanation for Ahsoka living). It's basically like what happened in much of the Obi Wan series. We already had this great emotional payoff between Ahsoka and Anakin, but since it happened in cartoon form they decided to shoehorn another one into the live action (despite the fact that only those who watched the cartoons in the first place will have any attachment to their confrontation).

It served a narrative purpose though...like I'm not going to deny it's fan service but it's not schlock fan service like random Mos Eisley cantina patron bumping into Jyn Erso for no reason but memberberries.

And how does it undercut the Rebels duel? The context is totally different. The first is a genuine consequence of Ashoka discovering Anakin became Vader, the second is a dream sequence/vision derived from Ashoka (presumably) communing with the force for an introspective/self-discovery journey. The former is meant to deliver an emotional pay off as Rebels bridged the gap between Clone Wars and Ashoka after the fall of the Republic, the latter is meant as a character development device for an older Ashoka if you're familiar with the character, or a primer on her backstory if you aren't. I thought the flashback sequences served an effective purpose at catering the storytelling for either audience. Also the duel against Vader was against a real, tangible, and living person; this was, again, a manifestation of Ashoka communing with the force. It's entirely different stakes. I don't see how this undercuts anything other than surface level analysis like "ugh, they did it again."

 

[Hivemind]

I thought the whales were fine. Not the best plot device ever used in Star Wars but not the worst either.

Good episode overall but the flashback stuff was better than the last third or so.

It served a narrative purpose though...like I'm not going to deny it's fan service but it's not schlock fan service like random Mos Eisley cantina patron bumping into Jyn Erso for no reason but memberberries.

And how does it undercut the Rebels duel? The context is totally different. The first is a genuine consequence of Ashoka discovering Anakin became Vader, the second is a dream sequence/vision derived from Ashoka (presumably) communing with the force for an introspective/self-discovery journey. The former is meant to deliver an emotional pay off as Rebels bridged the gap between Clone Wars and Ashoka after the fall of the Republic, the latter is meant as a character development device for an older Ashoka if you're familiar with the character, or a primer on her backstory if you aren't. I thought the flashback sequences served an effective purpose at catering the storytelling for either audience. Also the duel against Vader was against a real, tangible, and living person; this was, again, a manifestation of Ashoka communing with the force. It's entirely different stakes. I don't see how this undercuts anything other than surface level analysis like "ugh, they did it again."

First off, I don't think it's clear that this was a dream sequence or vision. While that's a possibility, this is not the first time the World Between Worlds has been used to save Ahsoka's life, and last time it very much wasn't a dream sequence. Ezra physically pulled her from her duel with Vader in Rebels. The door to the World Between Worlds in Rebels also tells the story of the Father, Son, & Daughter - which we first learn through Anakin's confrontation with them in The Clone Wars. It's more than likely what we saw was actually Anakin existing in the World Between Worlds (possibly as a force ghost), not a dream sequence or manifestation.

Not all fan service has to be corny Easter eggs. It can also be unnecessary plot points or unnecessary fight sequences. We didn't need two lightsaber fights between Ahsoka and Anakin to get flashbacks that explain Ahsoka's past to live action-only viewers. Shoe-horning in an additional Master vs Apprentice trope duel is absolutely fan-service, and it's fan service that only serves the interests of those who have already seen the better, more impactful duel between these characters in Rebels. They certainly didn't need to do the "oh sheesh, remember that Anakin is Vader!?" bit near the end, as Ahsoka's reckoning with that was already handled as well.

And that last point is why it undercuts the Rebels duel. We already got to see Ahsoka coming to terms with the fact her master, mentor, and friend fell to the dark side. We already saw her reckon with the fact she had "abandoned" him shortly before his moment of crisis. We already saw her confront these issues, and to use them as a trope again takes the legs out from underneath the previous story arcs. It's just rehashing previous story elements, and doing so in a fashion that undermines the character growth Ahsoka has previously experienced.

 

[LarKing]

Another fantastic episode. As someone who hated the space whales and world between worlds storylines in rebels, I must say I think they’ve done a fantastic job with it in Ahsoka. The ending scene in particular was beautiful. I’m assuming the next few episodes will have more of a darker tone with Thrawn returning. Anyone know how many episodes there will be total?

 

[Bounces R Way]

Count me as another Purrgil convert. Didn't care for their use in Rebels and didn't think they'd be cool in live action but I've reconsidered. If mystical hyperspace whales ain't Star Wars I dunno what is.

Anyone know how many episodes there will be total?

I believe it was 8.


I don't think the flashbacks or world between worlds portions of Episode 5 were re-hashing anything. Neither do I think it's pointless fan service. Anakin played a huge role in Ahsoka's life and there needed to be a connection with him for this series and the character to stand on its own two feet. I do however feel their interaction could have been more meaningful, have more substance, Anakin's big piece of space wizard wisdom was choose to live. And then she does. And then that's kind of it. Not that their relationship was super complex and deeply profound to begin with, but I think there was a missed opportunity here to tie some stuff in later in the season. Maybe that's intended.

 

[Ben Grimm]

I bleed when Chopper speaks. He's so damn cheesy!

 

[MadDevil]

I bleed when Chopper speaks. He's so damn cheesy!

I just assume he's cursing in astromech most of the time. Crazy little homicidal maniac. I love him.

 

[#37]

I laugh at people arguing over canon. (Erm... ha, ha, ha... ) There is no canon, they make this $h!t up as they go along. Nothing is sacred, ask anyone who was once a fan of Boba Fett.

A few random thoughts...

Spoiler: Spoilers

1. 'Never work with children or animals' -W.C. Fields. The actress who portrayed young Ahsoka carried this episode on her back while acting circles around everybody else. Of course, she also had the benefit of not having to act alone in front of a green-screen. Unfortunately, the actress portraying Hera doesn't have that benefit and it shows. Badly.

2. Less Sabine is better. I used to like the character before she became a moody navel gazer, er, somewhere around the middle of Rebels. Now she is just a female Fonzi on water-skies. The shark is in her rear view mirror.

3. If I had to sum up the overall theme of the Star Wars universe in two words? Bad parenting.

Filoni is a hack. Disney should hire the guys from Robot Chicken...

 

[PB37]

I just assume he's cursing in astromech most of the time. Crazy little homicidal maniac. I love him.

I'm not sure if CC will pick up his lines but he is speaking english words, just muffled.

 

[Hivemind]

It's not always as clear as it is in this scene, but Chopper is indeed speaking English (basic) thru a voice modifier.



(This is also easily my favorite scene of the series so far)

 

[MadDevil]

Spoiler

 

[PB37]

To each their own, but I don't think Rebels is a "children's tale." At least no moreso than any other Star Wars.

The Purrgil are expanded on pretty decently in Rebels, and feel part of the world/mythology in my opinion. They establish that the hyperdrive was invented after studying them. Works for me, maybe not you.

I think it's worthy to criticize the show not bringing non-Rebels viewers more up to speed. Definitely a downside to a show within this connected universe. But for me and pretty much everyone I've talked to that's seen Rebels, the show is hitting very well.

Agreed but I will have to touch on something here that's annoyed me from comments I've heard here and from other people across different forms of social media and even real life.

You need to watch Rebels and even Clone Wars to fully understand the Ahsoka show. Some people seem put off by this and don't understand why but it's like anything else that has a chronological order. Can you watch Kenobi without watching Revenge of the Sith? Should you watch the original series before watching The Mandalorian? You're doing yourself a disservice if you're not watching the prior material.

Personally, I can't take anyone seriously who call themselves a Star Wars fan but haven't bothered watching Clone Wars and/or Rebels. It has some of the best Star Wars content in it's vast universe and it adds so much lore and context. The Purrgil have been in Star Wars continuity for 7/8 years now and the people getting upset by them now just have me shaking my head. f***, this isn't even their live action debut, lol. They appeared in the Mandalorian!

 

[Hivemind]

I've watched The Clone Wars (including the Tartakovsky version), Rebels, and The Bad Batch. There are indeed episodes and story arcs in those series that are among the best Star Wars content since the OT. The Siege of Mandalore arc is brilliant, in particular.

But the "you're only a real Star Wars fan if you've watched the cartoons" gatekeeping is awful and needs to stop. Plenty of people simply aren't interested Star Wars content that is the TV equivalent of young adult fiction. That doesn't make them lesser fans. That doesn't mean that their opinions on newer content is less valuable. Pointing out Ahsoka's dependency on shows from a different medium is a perfectly valid criticism. This isn't Rebels Season 5, or even a live action adaptation of Rebels, it was billed as a show about Ahsoka Tano (who they had introduced to live action viewers in The Mandalorian and BoBF). Speaking more broadly, the "Marvelization" of Star Wars is a perfectly valid criticism. Not everyone wants a gigantic, interconnected network of shows and movies where you have to spend 150 hours viewing other content to stay current and understand new content. And, hell, that's even a perfectly valid criticism of the MCU. Andor was exceptional, in part, because you only really needed to know the original trilogy to understand it. Not knowing who Saw Guerrera was didn't really detract from the show at all. Ahsoka is built upon having a pre-existing connection to these characters and their relationships.

(And the Purgill have been dumb for the entire 8 years they've been in the continuity)

 

[Sad People]

I dont really understand the dislike or distaste for the Purgill. Can only imagine how pissed off people got towards stormtrooper aim or as previously stated the sarlacc pit where something lives in a hole in the desert with tentacles, dont even get me started on the monster/ animal living in a garbage pit on a space station.

 

[Hivemind]

I dont really understand the dislike or distaste for the Purgill. Can only imagine how pissed off people got towards stormtrooper aim or as previously stated the sarlacc pit where something lives in a hole in the desert with tentacles, dont even get me started on the monster/ animal living in a garbage pit on a space station.

It's not the existence of the Purgill that bothers most people. If hyperspace whales were just a background novelty in the universe, it would be one thing. Creatures and monsters inhabiting asteroids, desert pits, and trash compactors are flavor for the universe, and make for nice short-term (mostly single scene) threats. If the Purgill were a passing curiosity or set-piece, I think most of us would be okay with it.

It's how the Purgill have been used in the narrative that bothers people. As a one-off in an episode of Rebels where Ezra inadvertently teaches the rest of the Ghost crew the value of respecting and trusting animals? Pretty corny young-adult plot, but whatever, it's fine. But that's not where they left the Purgill. They brought them back as a pseudo-Deus Ex Machina for a teenager to outwit Thrawn in the dumbest way possible. Thrawn lost to some hyperspace whales? Really? And entire Imperial fleet of Star Destroyers can be destroyed by some whales? Come on. That's definitely the all-conquering, tyrannical Empire - at the mercy of some whales. And the whales are motivated by what exactly? Their friendship with a teenager they met briefly in the past? It's just such an immensely silly way to end the series. They wrote themselves into a corner and came up with the dumbest way to get out of it.

Even in Ahsoka, their narrative usage continues to be ridiculous. Of course the Purgill were going to be the way they followed Thrawn and Ezra to the unknown regions. That was so patently obvious from the beginning. But why didn't the characters think of it until the last moment, and why was everyone stunned by Ahsoka going with that plan? Like Sabine and Ahsoka have been stewing on Ezra and Thrawn going to the unknown region for 10+ years, and neither of them ever said "hey, you know those hyperspace whales that dragged them to the unknown regions? I wonder if we can also commune with them via the force like Ezra did?" It's not like the Purgill were some big secret. They showed up at the Battle of Lothal, which is now a big part of the history of the rebellion. Mon Mothma and the New republic senate know who Thrawn is and how he was defeated.

 

[PB37]

I've watched The Clone Wars (including the Tartakovsky version), Rebels, and The Bad Batch. There are indeed episodes and story arcs in those series that are among the best Star Wars content since the OT. The Siege of Mandalore arc is brilliant, in particular.

But the "you're only a real Star Wars fan if you've watched the cartoons" gatekeeping is awful and needs to stop. Plenty of people simply aren't interested Star Wars content that is the TV equivalent of young adult fiction. That doesn't make them lesser fans. That doesn't mean that their opinions on newer content is less valuable. Pointing out Ahsoka's dependency on shows from a different medium is a perfectly valid criticism. This isn't Rebels Season 5, or even a live action adaptation of Rebels, it was billed as a show about Ahsoka Tano (who they had introduced to live action viewers in The Mandalorian and BoBF). Speaking more broadly, the "Marvelization" of Star Wars is a perfectly valid criticism. Not everyone wants a gigantic, interconnected network of shows and movies where you have to spend 150 hours viewing other content to stay current and understand new content. And, hell, that's even a perfectly valid criticism of the MCU. Andor was exceptional, in part, because you only really needed to know the original trilogy to understand it. Not knowing who Saw Guerrera was didn't really detract from the show at all. Ahsoka is built upon having a pre-existing connection to these characters and their relationships.

(And the Purgill have been dumb for the entire 8 years they've been in the continuity)

Star Wars has always been geared towards a younger audience. Andor bucked that trend, which is why it's wildly popular among adults. I would argue that while Clone Wars started off for a younger audience, it certainly didn't stay that way. Rebels wasn't any more or less young viewership targeted than the Star Wars movies.

They never billed this to be a jump in series about Ahsoka. We all knew going in that Hera, Sabine, finding Ezra/Thrawn were going to be the focus of the storyline. You can't know who those characters are outside of their names and why they're in their current place in the galaxy story without watching Rebels. This was always suppose to be a continuation of the story but with the main focus on Ahsoka's journey.

I would heavily disagree with your point about gate keeping. You can dislike the prequels after watching them but if you haven't watched them because of whatever bias you have and just stick with the OT, I can't take your opinion seriously on any new content you decide to jump into. It's fine if you watched Rebels/Clone Wars and came out thinking it sucked but a refusal to watch because of <insert reason> and then complain you don't understand the new live action show because it follows a storyline feels like a wasted opinion to me.

 

[Hivemind]

Star Wars has always been geared towards a younger audience. Andor bucked that trend, which is why it's wildly popular among adults. I would argue that while Clone Wars started off for a younger audience, it certainly didn't stay that way. Rebels wasn't any more or less young viewership targeted than the Star Wars movies.

Yes, these shows are aimed at an even younger target audience than Star Wars movies. That doesn't make them bad. But there's episodes that essentially boil down to "Chopper learns how to make a friend," "Ezra learns humility after being given authority," and a whole arc about Sabine learning how to lead and find herself. They're very much coming-of-age shows.

They never billed this to be a jump in series about Ahsoka.

The f***ing name of the show is Ahsoka.

I would heavily disagree with your point about gate keeping.

Being a gate keeper is not something to brag about.

You can dislike the prequels after watching them but if you haven't watched them because of whatever bias you have and just stick with the OT, I can't take your opinion seriously on any new content you decide to jump into. It's fine if you watched Rebels/Clone Wars and came out thinking it sucked but a refusal to watch because of <insert reason> and then complain you don't understand the new live action show because it follows a storyline feels like a wasted opinion to me.

You're missing the point. If the only audience something appeals to is hardcore fans who will eat up every bit of Star Wars content possible, pointing that out is absolutely a valid opinion.

 

[Sad People]

It's not the existence of the Purgill that bothers most people. If hyperspace whales were just a background novelty in the universe, it would be one thing. Creatures and monsters inhabiting asteroids, desert pits, and trash compactors are flavor for the universe, and make for nice short-term (mostly single scene) threats. If the Purgill were a passing curiosity or set-piece, I think most of us would be okay with it.

It's how the Purgill have been used in the narrative that bothers people. As a one-off in an episode of Rebels where Ezra inadvertently teaches the rest of the Ghost crew the value of respecting and trusting animals? Pretty corny young-adult plot, but whatever, it's fine. But that's not where they left the Purgill. They brought them back as a pseudo-Deus Ex Machina for a teenager to outwit Thrawn in the dumbest way possible. Thrawn lost to some hyperspace whales? Really? And entire Imperial fleet of Star Destroyers can be destroyed by some whales? Come on. That's definitely the all-conquering, tyrannical Empire - at the mercy of some whales. And the whales are motivated by what exactly? Their friendship with a teenager they met briefly in the past? It's just such an immensely silly way to end the series. They wrote themselves into a corner and came up with the dumbest way to get out of it.

Even in Ahsoka, their narrative usage continues to be ridiculous. Of course the Purgill were going to be the way they followed Thrawn and Ezra to the unknown regions. That was so patently obvious from the beginning. But why didn't the characters think of it until the last moment, and why was everyone stunned by Ahsoka going with that plan? Like Sabine and Ahsoka have been stewing on Ezra and Thrawn going to the unknown region for 10+ years, and neither of them ever said "hey, you know those hyperspace whales that dragged them to the unknown regions? I wonder if we can also commune with them via the force like Ezra did?" It's not like the Purgill were some big secret. They showed up at the Battle of Lothal, which is now a big part of the history of the rebellion. Mon Mothma and the New republic senate know who Thrawn is and how he was defeated.

If loop holes or semantics bug you i feel like youre following the wrong IP my man.

 

[HanSolo]

First off, I don't think it's clear that this was a dream sequence or vision. While that's a possibility, this is not the first time the World Between Worlds has been used to save Ahsoka's life, and last time it very much wasn't a dream sequence. Ezra physically pulled her from her duel with Vader in Rebels. The door to the World Between Worlds in Rebels also tells the story of the Father, Son, & Daughter - which we first learn through Anakin's confrontation with them in The Clone Wars. It's more than likely what we saw was actually Anakin existing in the World Between Worlds (possibly as a force ghost), not a dream sequence or manifestation.

Not all fan service has to be corny Easter eggs. It can also be unnecessary plot points or unnecessary fight sequences. We didn't need two lightsaber fights between Ahsoka and Anakin to get flashbacks that explain Ahsoka's past to live action-only viewers. Shoe-horning in an additional Master vs Apprentice trope duel is absolutely fan-service, and it's fan service that only serves the interests of those who have already seen the better, more impactful duel between these characters in Rebels. They certainly didn't need to do the "oh sheesh, remember that Anakin is Vader!?" bit near the end, as Ahsoka's reckoning with that was already handled as well.

And that last point is why it undercuts the Rebels duel. We already got to see Ahsoka coming to terms with the fact her master, mentor, and friend fell to the dark side. We already saw her reckon with the fact she had "abandoned" him shortly before his moment of crisis. We already saw her confront these issues, and to use them as a trope again takes the legs out from underneath the previous story arcs. It's just rehashing previous story elements, and doing so in a fashion that undermines the character growth Ahsoka has previously experienced.

I think it just comes down to how we interpreted and experienced those scenes. I've mentioned a number of times I don't have a fleshed out understanding of where Rebels Ashoka was at past her duel with Vader, but even with my lack of experience with the rest of the story I felt this episode served an entirely different purpose for her character. It's not reckoning with who Ashoka was in the scope of Darth Vader's former padawan and someone who turned her back on the Jedi Order. To me it read like it's about who she is now in the wake of the Galactic Civil War, who she is after failing to mentor Sabine, who she is as a hero in this post war time. People don't necessarily go through character growth once and they're absolved of any future self doubt, uncertainty, etc.

Agreed but I will have to touch on something here that's annoyed me from comments I've heard here and from other people across different forms of social media and even real life.

You need to watch Rebels and even Clone Wars to fully understand the Ahsoka show. Some people seem put off by this and don't understand why but it's like anything else that has a chronological order. Can you watch Kenobi without watching Revenge of the Sith? Should you watch the original series before watching The Mandalorian? You're doing yourself a disservice if you're not watching the prior material.

Personally, I can't take anyone seriously who call themselves a Star Wars fan but haven't bothered watching Clone Wars and/or Rebels. It has some of the best Star Wars content in it's vast universe and it adds so much lore and context. The Purrgil have been in Star Wars continuity for 7/8 years now and the people getting upset by them now just have me shaking my head. f***, this isn't even their live action debut, lol. They appeared in the Mandalorian!

I kind of resent that. I tried watching Rebels and enjoyed parts of it but couldn't bring myself to sit through the stuff clearly tailored for kids to get to the good parts. There was better payoff for that kind of tolerance in Clone Wars. It just wasn't my cup of tea at the time and maybe I'll come back to it later. I'm also behind on the Bad Batch and the last season of Clone Wars that came out in the Disney era. I don't think that makes me or anyone else "not a Star Wars fan".

And personally I don't find Ashoka to be devalued as a live action creative work just because I didn't fully immerse myself in Rebels canon. It's still been a solid show without knowledge needed to appreciate nods and callbacks. Though I found both animated iterations of Ashoka to be a bit more compelling from a character perspective than this older/more experienced one.

 

[HanSolo]

Sorry @Hivemind, I started my reply to your post earlier this morning and didn't finish before I replied to PB37

 

[PB37]

Yes, these shows are aimed at an even younger target audience than Star Wars movies. That doesn't make them bad. But there's episodes that essentially boil down to "Chopper learns how to make a friend," "Ezra learns humility after being given authority," and a whole arc about Sabine learning how to lead and find herself. They're very much coming-of-age shows.

The f***ing name of the show is Ahsoka.

Being a gate keeper is not something to brag about.


You're missing the point. If the only audience something appeals to is hardcore fans who will eat up every bit of Star Wars content possible, pointing that out is absolutely a valid opinion.

The OT is very much a coming of age story as well. Out of all the mainstream content, I'd say that the 1st season of Clone Wars was the most heavily slanted towards youth than anything that came after it. Rebels felt more in line with the OT in terms of lessons that can be learned by younger eyes.

Yes, the name of the show is Ahsoka. But there was NOTHING that suggested it was a jump in and have fun series. Trailer, interviews, articles all wrote about how some of the main stories would be about the Rebels crew and finding Ezra/Thrawn. This was always going to be a continued story, which if you didn't get cliff notes or watch the prior series, you're going to be left in the dark about some of the nuances. That's just par for the course of any big universe franchise.

I think it just comes down to how we interpreted and experienced those scenes. I've mentioned a number of times I don't have a fleshed out understanding of where Rebels Ashoka was at past her duel with Vader, but even with my lack of experience with the rest of the story I felt this episode served an entirely different purpose for her character. It's not reckoning with who Ashoka was in the scope of Darth Vader's former padawan and someone who turned her back on the Jedi Order. To me it read like it's about who she is now in the wake of the Galactic Civil War, who she is after failing to mentor Sabine, who she is as a hero in this post war time. People don't necessarily go through character growth once and they're absolved of any future self doubt, uncertainty, etc.

I kind of resent that. I tried watching Rebels and enjoyed parts of it but couldn't bring myself to sit through the stuff clearly tailored for kids to get to the good parts. There was better payoff for that kind of tolerance in Clone Wars. It just wasn't my cup of tea at the time and maybe I'll come back to it later. I'm also behind on the Bad Batch and the last season of Clone Wars that came out in the Disney era. I don't think that makes me or anyone else "not a Star Wars fan".

And personally I don't find Ashoka to be devalued as a live action creative work just because I didn't fully immerse myself in Rebels canon. It's still been a solid show without knowledge needed to appreciate nods and callbacks. Though I found both animated iterations of Ashoka to be a bit more compelling from a character perspective than this older/more experienced one.

My issue isn't with people like you, who tried it and didn't like it.

 

[Felidae]

Agreed but I will have to touch on something here that's annoyed me from comments I've heard here and from other people across different forms of social media and even real life.

You need to watch Rebels and even Clone Wars to fully understand the Ahsoka show. Some people seem put off by this and don't understand why but it's like anything else that has a chronological order. Can you watch Kenobi without watching Revenge of the Sith? Should you watch the original series before watching The Mandalorian? You're doing yourself a disservice if you're not watching the prior material.

Personally, I can't take anyone seriously who call themselves a Star Wars fan but haven't bothered watching Clone Wars and/or Rebels. It has some of the best Star Wars content in it's vast universe and it adds so much lore and context. The Purrgil have been in Star Wars continuity for 7/8 years now and the people getting upset by them now just have me shaking my head. f***, this isn't even their live action debut, lol. They appeared in the Mandalorian!

I've watched all the live action Star Wars content but not the animated ones. Maybe that makes me "less" of a fan and thats fine with me since i wouldnt consider myself a hardcore one. But in terms of media it was my first introduction into Sci fi, both the original and prequels being some of my most rewatched films when I was younger.

Am I not a "real" Star Wars fan?

I think criticizing people talking about Ahsoka as if it's supposed to be a standalone series is fine, but I'm not sure talk like that serves any purpose other than to alienate more casual fans.

 

[account deactivated]

I really liked this episode. I didn't watch all of Clone Wars (I think I've only seen most of the way through like Season 2) and watched ZERO of Rebels, so I didn't have a problem with any of the gripes that the super nerds are writing insufferable essays about.

 

[MadDevil]

I cringe every time somebody uses the phrase "real fans". It always reminds me of that line from Tywin in GOT about anybody who has to keep calling himself King is no true King.

As for this show, I think it was always going to struggle with being so connected to shows that not everybody is familiar with. I think they've done a pretty good job dropping hints via exposition, but I'm also biased since I am so familiar with the material, so I don't know how easy or difficult its been for those not familiar with it. Even being familiar with it there were points in this episode I was like " the hell is going on?" I still have questions that will probably only be answered by Filoni at some point, if at all.

One thing the Clone Wars scenes in this episode really drove home is how young Ahsoka was. It's easy to forget in the animated shows that she was essentially a child soldier. I thought the actress who played her was fantastic playing a young Ahsoka. And Hayden...it's just so damn cool to have him back as Anakin. The way he delivered his lines was like a perfect combination of him and Lanter's version of Anakin from TCW. And of course he had to do the patented Anakin behind the back lightsaber twirl.