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Ok, the last three episodes have been terrible, but so far the season has been a lot better then the last two. Then the writers . . .
Said hold my beer, merry christmas jerkfaces
The Burn, the big storyline with promise, well it was a mutated kid that had a bad day and his temper tantrum caused the burn.
Michael questioning Saru's objectivity and his emotions compromising him. Pretty freaking laughable as that's her MO, and you can just tell they writers want Burnham in the Captain's chair badly.
Tilly, worst Captain ever, Fire all sarcasm weapons, as the battle between her and the villain, was basically an episode of 90210 between mean girl in a cafeteria.
Nobody on the away mission knows what's going on, Saru tells Burnham to stay as he's the Captain, she tells him he needs to stay with the deranged Burn baby because they're the same species, and Saru agrees, Thereby leaving Tilly in charge with Michael intending to once again save the day.
Oh what else, the B roll story of Aidra and her boyfriend the Force Ghost, seriously who cares anymore.
I can see the next episode will be about Tilly the terrible Captain trying to redeem herself. Saru will probably fracking sacrifice himself and that leaves Burnham as Captain of the Discovery rubbing the dent or spur on the Captains Chair.
Last year the writers did the same thing, took a strong story line, and then completely wrecked the last half of the season.
Same thing here.
This probably does it for me. Haven't watched last week and from what you wrote, I won't be watching this week either. The only intrigue I had left was concerning The Burn which I thought had some promise of being interesting. Now that I know what caused The Burn (so f***ing stupid), I'm not going to continue wasting my time watching this putrid version of Star Trek.
I'll still be keeping an eye on this thread but I can't envision what would bring me back to this show. Disappointing as I am a fan of Star Trek in general.
Can't wait for the Orville to come back to get my Star Trek fix.
Ok, the last three episodes have been terrible, but so far the season has been a lot better then the last two. Then the writers . . .
Said hold my beer, merry christmas jerkfaces
The Burn, the big storyline with promise, well it was a mutated kid that had a bad day and his temper tantrum caused the burn.
Michael questioning Saru's objectivity and his emotions compromising him. Pretty freaking laughable as that's her MO, and you can just tell they writers want Burnham in the Captain's chair badly.
Tilly, worst Captain ever, Fire all sarcasm weapons, as the battle between her and the villain, was basically an episode of 90210 between mean girl in a cafeteria.
Nobody on the away mission knows what's going on, Saru tells Burnham to stay as he's the Captain, she tells him he needs to stay with the deranged Burn baby because they're the same species, and Saru agrees, Thereby leaving Tilly in charge with Michael intending to once again save the day.
Oh what else, the B roll story of Aidra and her boyfriend the Force Ghost, seriously who cares anymore.
I can see the next episode will be about Tilly the terrible Captain trying to redeem herself. Saru will probably fracking sacrifice himself and that leaves Burnham as Captain of the Discovery rubbing the dent or spur on the Captains Chair.
Last year the writers did the same thing, took a strong story line, and then completely wrecked the last half of the season.
Same thing here.
Show starts with the crew still celebrating Empress "I like to eat people I've enslaved" Georgiou because "ohmygodshessokewl!"
Saru staying on the planet when his ship is under attack was laughable.
Tilly's sarcastic retort to the Orion Baddie just didn't seem authentic to me at all.
Remember, Tilly is the one who just accepted having food thrown in her face by Georgiou a few days earlier and was afraid to beam down to the planet with Saru in the second episode of the season.
Now, all of a sudden she's throwing quips like Spider-Man!?!
Adira was created by the writers for the sole purpose of delivering this one line, "I would prefer they or them from now on" so the writers could pat themselves on the back and win a participation award.
I would give the writers credit for the Orion Baddie invading and taking the ship from a woefully inexperienced Tilly, but, lets face it, we all know that they're doing this to set up Tilly somehow regaining control of the ship.
If the writers really wanted to do something creative and shocking, they should have had the Orion Baddie kill Tilly when she refused to get out of the Captain's chair.
Instantly, every one of those nameless bridge officers now has a purpose to re-take the ship, avenge their deceased first officer and deal with real grief.
Saru, when he returns to the ship, has to deal his ill advised decision to name an inexperience and unqualified ensign a his first officer and leave her in command of the ship which ultimately resulted in her death.
Michael also has to deal with the fact that her insubordinate act which led to her demotion and Tilly's subsequent promotion also led to Tilly's death.
And finally, the series treats the audience like grownups who understand that the universe is indifferent to us carbon based meat suits, that life isn't fair and that most people are not special and they don't care about your damn feelings.
I'm utterly disappointed in The Burn solution. A stressed out child, really? The Tilly as captain trying desperately to be glib scene was not my taste as well.
After reflection, I've now switched my reasons for viewing this show from seeing the resolution of the Burn, to watching if for the same reason why you would watch a fireworks factory burn. Because watching the show in a Mystery Science Fiction 3000 mode would be better then watching this show as a serious piece of the Star Trek Universe.
I liked how Burnham questioned Saru's ability to remain objective because the child was Kelpian... even though all of last season was about her relationship to her half brother and biological mother.
I also liked (no sarcasm this time) that Tilly was Acting Captain for one hour and Discovery got boarded and captured.
I liked how Burnham questioned Saru's ability to remain objective because the child was Kelpian... even though all of last season was about her relationship to her half brother and biological mother.
I also liked (no sarcasm this time) that Tilly was Acting Captain for one hour and Discovery got boarded and captured.
Because she's plucky? I mean they have more senior officers especially on the bridge. But in this show, they're furniture. I mean I guess its some kind of experiment to take the second most annoying character on the show behind Burnham and see if they can make her a beloved character.
I mean I guess its some kind of experiment to take the second most annoying character on the show behind Burnham and see if they can make her a beloved character.
I'm reading on Wikipedia that "Tilly was included to represent people 'at the very bottom of this ladder' of the Starfleet hierarchy." This was probably the writers' agenda from the beginning, to promote her from the very bottom to the very top. Maybe she'll be made an Admiral next season (if not next episode).
She was made acting First Officer after Burnham was removed from the position and Saru went on an away mission. People tend to forget that First Officer, and Department Heads (Chief Science Officer, Chief Medical Officer, etc), aren't ranks. They're essentially job titles. Some department heads are Lieutenants (Worf). Some are Lt Commanders (Data). Some get promoted while keeping the same job title (LaForge, Dax, Bashir). Others aren't even enlisted (O'Brien). It's why you can have two different people of the same rank with different amounts of actual authority (think Commander Riker vs Dr Crusher). Hell, you don't even need to be a Captain to be a Commanding Officer. For me, this absolutely leads to the implication that these job titles can be filled by someone of lower rank than those they'll be commanding or who are in their departments... even if it never occurred to me before it happened on Discovery. What's important here is not rank, but operational responsibility.
There really isn't anything that prevents this kind of thing and Saru's reason for it, being that she's best shown the ability to adapt to their current circumstance, does make a certain amount of sense. That she has adapted the best seems obviously true, at least to me. Granted, we aren't getting enough of 5 of the other officers to be totally confident in that judgment. Of the other 5 officers we have gotten a bunch of, none of them would be right for the position. Burnham just lost the job. Culber and Stanmets aren't bridge officers and have their duties they need to stay with. Detmers is trying to work through her PTSD and Owoshekun seems to be distracted by that as well.
What makes it a bad decision in this case is that she clearly isn't ready for the responsibility of command in a crisis. So even though she's adapted the best to their circumstance, this means it's still the wrong decision. She doesn't really think it's the right decision either. At this point, it looks like she's right. The conflict she has to handle in this last episode leads to major overcompensation on her part, and that leads to a pretty spectacular failure.
I'm utterly disappointed in The Burn solution. A stressed out child, really? The Tilly as captain trying desperately to be glib scene was not my taste as well.
I don't think the Kelpian is the entirety of the answer though. Why didn't his little freak out cause a mini-burn? Just because it's the initial conclusion of the away team doesn't mean it's the whole story. They haven't really worked the whole thing out yet.
In any navy in history, to be a first officer or executive officer you have to be trained for it, tested for it and qualify for it. You really can't be just randomly picked, because "You're supposedly able to adapt to it". So there's absolutely no way that an ensign would be qualified in any way to take the role the first officer unless she was the second person serving on a two person rowboat crew.
The only other way that she could ascend to that role would be in a battle where the command crew were killed, but even then its not senior rank up, unless you're not qualified. IE the case of a ships doctor treating his injured captain and then finding out that he was the last senior officer standing and by default was made Captain.
The whole idea of a neurotic immature engineer who had never stood watch on the bridge being named first officer is ludicrous and the Admiral should have asked for a psychiatric evaluation of Saru as a Captain or I don't know assigned a first officer that was qualified to discovery.
I get its fiction, but frankly its stupid writing like this that just makes you realize how badly crafted and thought out this show is. Just like, and I'm going to sound bad here, the flimsy premise of Saru staying behind so that they can have Michael and Tilly saving the ship.
And with two episodes back, one of which is probably going to be heavily based around taking back the discovery, I have my doubts that they're going to ad in any more elements around the burn. Instead they'll have the debate about whether to kill the Burn Baby, or have Saru stay behind to become daddy.
This show lacks ambition. It just feels like CBS is doing because it's an IP. It's just by the numbers story telling. Having a Kelpian be responsible for a burn across the galaxy at the same time is not only just stupid, it's unambitious. Would have been interesting if some supreme powerful multi-dimensional aliens were responsible perhaps that being that transported Phillipe, maybe they fear how fast "lesser" beings were growing too fast. Something that presents a moral dilemma, just an example. This whole "what caused the burn" was so uninteresting, a misstep to have that be the focus 900 years in the future.
Also, since others are talking about, having Telly be the captain was such a terrible decision by Saru. She has no command training, no experience on smaller ship class and most of all she has no desire to be a captain or a leader. And it was never really built up. Trusting someone's character is great, and Tilly has great character, but you also have to trust a person's ability to do the job well. Saru put the whole ship at risk because he had trust issues with Burnham.
Its funny how they've written and placed the characters.
Burnham - Has the answers to everything, super brilliant, and driven with a natural command presence who hurts herself because she cares too much. If there's a problem, Burnham has all the answers
Tilly - The ultimate underdog, socially awkward, but she's a mini burnham that she has all of the answers. Clearly loved and beloved by the crew, Saru trusts her "Intincts" and makes her second in command though she didn't finish the command course and has never stood a bridge watch.
Detmer - Furniture for the most part, but they keep making her the X factor hero, Completely dropped the storyline of her PTSD no muss no fuss.
Georgio - Former Empress and brutal cannibal, that is redeemed for stuff, in the most ludicriss fashion. She likes nothing better then being an insult comic, but the writers somehow equate this with leadership.
Saru - The Captain that everyone loves, but that's because he's a nice guy, he's the principle in saved by the bell, he's everyone's buddy, but easily duped and weak. As a Captain he continually makes bad decisions, and when things get tough he looks at Michael with sad puppy dog eyes, and then she screws him over with her decisions.
Stamets - Is he really anything except furniture with a few lines. He comes up with solutions, that pretty well everyone on the ship over rides or tells him its wrong. He makes lofty speeches to Aidra and Tilly, but other then that, he's really a nothing character.
The Doctor - Forget his name, but all he does is make speeches and jam needles in people. He's just there to be in a relationship with Stametts but other then that he's just two dimensional.
The rest of the bridge crew, there to collect a paycheck. Pretty much furniture to push buttons.
I mean the character writing is so terrible, they're basically there to make Burnham and Tilly look awesome, and in some cases be intentionally incompetant so Tilly and Michael look like superstars. Every other Star Trek series was an ensemble where they even made the background characters interesting. This show is the Michael show co-starring Tilly and a ship of clowns who make pretty but irrelevant statements once in a while.
I think that's what bugs me so much about the series besides the awful writing in terms of plot and story, or the aggravation that they started with something interesting then in the last four episodes were no better then bong smoking morons who have written themselves into an awful corner and made the main story line incredibly ridiculous.
The characters for the most part, aren't interesting and are intentionally written that way, except for Michael and Tilly, and the writing that goes into Saru is to make him look weak, undecisive and not Captain's material, and there's no path except putting Michael in command if there's a next season. Stamets hasn't had a story line in the last year, and when they've used him its a nothing burger or he's weak, or incompetent (Mirror universe).
Right now the writers on Lower Decks have really put together the closest thing to a good Star Trek Show.
In any navy in history, to be a first officer or executive officer you have to be trained for it, tested for it and qualify for it. You really can't be just randomly picked, because "You're supposedly able to adapt to it". So there's absolutely no way that an ensign would be qualified in any way to take the role the first officer unless she was the second person serving on a two person rowboat crew.
The only other way that she could ascend to that role would be in a battle where the command crew were killed, but even then its not senior rank up, unless you're not qualified. IE the case of a ships doctor treating his injured captain and then finding out that he was the last senior officer standing and by default was made Captain.
The whole idea of a neurotic immature engineer who had never stood watch on the bridge being named first officer is ludicrous and the Admiral should have asked for a psychiatric evaluation of Saru as a Captain or I don't know assigned a first officer that was qualified to discovery.
I get its fiction, but frankly its stupid writing like this that just makes you realize how badly crafted and thought out this show is. Just like, and I'm going to sound bad here, the flimsy premise of Saru staying behind so that they can have Michael and Tilly saving the ship.
And with two episodes back, one of which is probably going to be heavily based around taking back the discovery, I have my doubts that they're going to ad in any more elements around the burn. Instead they'll have the debate about whether to kill the Burn Baby, or have Saru stay behind to become daddy.
OK, well I didn't say she was picked because she could adapt to the job, I said she was picked because she was the one having the least difficult time adapting to their current circumstances... as in, being in the 32nd century and all that comes with it, including never having any possibility of seeing anyone they care about ever again. In other words, she was the one who wasn't struggling with it. And she was picked as acting, not permanent. That should be interpreted as Saru believing there will be better candidates once everyone settles in. Conceivably, those candidates are Lts Rhys and Nilsson, who we've seen stand watch when the Captain leaves the bridge. I don't think we've seen anyone else do it. I agree that she wasn't a good choice, but I think it's understandable why Saru went there. I'm talking about in-universe here, which is the topic I prefer to stick to. Obviously, they're setting it up so that ultimately she excels in the position and gets rank promotions to match.
By the way, in your scenario with the doctor, chain of command would dictate that the doctor would only become Acting Captain if they were trained and on the books as a bridge officer, like Crusher was. If not, it'd be the highest ranking bridge officer. In chain of command, you report to those directly above you and command those directly below you. If someone isn't a bridge officer, they wouldn't be eligible to command on the bridge, regardless of their rank relative to those who are bridge officers. Tilly was in the command training program, so I assume she's on the books as a bridge officer, even if her standard assignment is in engineering. So the real question is who the second officer was. Data was a second officer (third in command). Were they Rhys or Nilsson? Or maybe Nhan was the second officer and Saru hadn't replaced her yet? Pretty sure it was Airiam at the beginning of last season. This is absolutely a justifiable criticism of this show. Unclear structure of the crew.
Looking at Memory Alpha, Bryce, Linus and Owo are actually Lieutentant Junior Grade. Detmer, Rhys, and Nilsson are full Lieutenants. Beyond them are the ones who don't seem to be bridge officers. Culber and Stanmets are Lieutenant Commanders. Much like Lt Cmdr Daren in TNG, I don't think you'd expect them to have bridge training. Reno seems to be a Commander, and the situation in engineering isn't exactly clear. Is she in charge of standard engineering and Stanmets of spore drive related items? Could use some clarity.
So, I just watched the latest episode, the one before the finale. It's very dumb, but nothing really stood out... until the final scene. These three Wall-E-looking robots that look totally out of place in Star Trek appear out of nowhere before Tilly. One of them says, "I'm at your service, Captain. Shall we take back the ship?" and then they each lift up one arm and do this while the music swells and the episode ends:
Please tell me that they're not mimicking the Vulcan salute.
For an episode leading up the the season finale, it was at best meh.
I mean what do they do, they bring back the pirate king who lambasted and intimidated Tilly earlier this year, and basically reset his challenge level to dumb. They made the sphere data into the robot character from the power rangers. Nothing stood out in the episode or made me excited about the season finale. The season ran out of gas something like 4 episodes and the writers fell back into bad habits from the previous seasons. I can't believe this train wreck is getting another season. Still expect to see Michael sitting in the Captains seat at the end of this season while the music swells and her number 2 is Tilly.
Just has become a real joke of a Star Trek season, Voyager was bad, Enterprise was meh, this series is so poorly written and acted that I almost think its and intentional parody.
So, I just watched the latest episode, the one before the finale. It's dumb, but nothing really stood out... until the last scene. These three Wall-E-looking robots that look totally out of place in Star Trek appear out of nowhere before Tilly. One of them says, "I'm at your service, Captain. Shall we take back the ship?" and then they each lift up one arm and do this while the music swells and the episode ends:
Please tell me that they're not mimicking the Vulcan salute.
For an episode leading up the the season finale, it was at best meh.
I mean what do they do, they bring back the pirate king who lambasted and intimidated Tilly earlier this year, and basically reset his challenge level to dumb. They made the sphere data into the robot character from the power rangers. Nothing stood out in the episode or made me excited about the season finale. The season ran out of gas something like 4 episodes and the writers fell back into bad habits from the previous seasons. I can't believe this train wreck is getting another season. Still expect to see Michael sitting in the Captains seat at the end of this season while the music swells and her number 2 is Tilly.
Just has become a real joke of a Star Trek season, Voyager was bad, Enterprise was meh, this series is so poorly written and acted that I almost think its and intentional parody.
What the hell was with the engineer trying to "spore jump" the ship back to the planet so he can rescue his husband and Michael sticks him in a forcefield bubble to stop him.
The engineer has a hissy fit, "Micheal....noooooo....we followed you into the future so you wouldn't be alone....." the she blows a hole into space so the the space pirates can't use him to "spore jump" the ship.
Both he and his husband are Starfleet officers and they know that means there is a possibility that one or both of them may die in the line of duty.
I don't expect him to be emotionless like a Vulcan, but, his response was so un-Starfleet like.
CaptainCrunch67 is right, this has to be an intentional Star Trek parody!
As I understood it, Stamets never attended Starfleet Academy. He and a fellow researcher were working on the mycelial network and were co-opted by Starfleet.
I found that whole thing melodramatic, but there is an in-universe reason why he might not react like a typical Starfleet officer.
As I understood it, Stamets never attended Starfleet Academy. He and a fellow researcher were working on the mycelial network and were co-opted by Starfleet.
I found that whole thing melodramatic, but there is an in-universe reason why he might not react like a typical Starfleet officer.
What seemed wrong to me was Burnham ejecting Stamets from the ship. She's Chief Science Officer and he's a scientist, so I suppose that she has authority over him, but I would think that she'd need permission from the Captain to do something like that, especially since Stamets operates the ship's most valuable ability. It was a crisis situation, but, still. He also protested strongly and had a good reason for it. I think that the "Star Trek" thing to do would've been to have her back down and work with him on an alternative, as cliched as that is.
It just felt like Burnham once again acting unilaterally to do what she thought was right, to heck with whether she was out of line or hurting anyone in some way, similar to when she mutinied in Season 1 and violated a direct order from Saru. She's a total loose cannon, yet she's going to end up saving the ship, being excused for her protocol breaking and being promoted to her former rank so that she can be emboldened to do it all over again next season.
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