Stamkos Debate - PostDeadline 2016

[ACC1224]

I know what would.... his price tag. That is the only real issue.

Agreed but some have other concerns, not me.

 

[Purity*]

Do you think that criticism would give any Team pause for concern over obtaining him?
To me it's a non issue.

Really? How WOULDN'T it?

When you're making someone the highest paid player in the league it's going to come with some extreme factors. IE: questionable production in the post-season.

This isn't team Canada where the cap is non-existent.

 

[Peace Frog]

When we all look back at Stamkos' career after he's retired, what do you think we'll think about it?

I think we're about to see the beginning of what he'll be long remembered for.... his career as a Leaf. I truly believe that this management team is committed to building something special here and that we will see not just one Cup, but perhaps multiple Cups during Stamkos' tenure here.

It's not going to be all about Stammer, but about a core of players that develop something permanent here. Heck, I don't even thing Stamkos will be the central figure to our success when it comes, but he'll be the reason that our youth were able to grow into the players they will become.

As the next captain of the Leafs, he will have shouldered the weight of the spotlight that is Leafland, and displayed true leadership to these young guns of today and the future. He will be a class act that will have led the Leafs to the promise land, and that's what he'll be remembered for. Whatever stats he's compiled up to this point, will merely be a footnote to a magical career.

 

[Stephen]

This team without a #1 goalie… and with only Jake Gardiner signed beyond the start of the 2019 season is going to win a Cup in 7 years?

Cool.

Sorry, what is the argument. We aren't good enough for Stamkos or Stamkos isn't good enough for us?

 

[ACC1224]

Really? How WOULDN'T it?

When you're making someone the highest paid player in the league it's going to come with some extreme factors. IE: questionable production in the post-season.

This isn't team Canada where the cap is non-existent.

I imagine they view it a little differently and have far greater insight than the average fan. Personally, I doubt the question is even raised.

 

[Clark4Ever]

This team without a #1 goalie… and with only Jake Gardiner signed beyond the start of the 2019 season is going to win a Cup in 7 years?

Cool.

Conveniently ignore the significant amount of players that will be under team control, the abundance of cap space we will have available to plug holes in the roster, and the assets available to trade to improve over the next few years to make a condescending comment.

Cool.

 

[Stephen]

When we all look back at Stamkos' career after he's retired, what do you think we'll think about it?

I think we're about to see the beginning of what he'll be long remembered for.... his career as a Leaf. I truly believe that this management team is committed to building something special here and that we will see not just one Cup, but perhaps multiple Cups during Stamkos' tenure here.

It's not going to be all about Stammer, but about a core of players that develop something permanent here. Heck, I don't even thing Stamkos will be the central figure to our success when it comes, but he'll be the reason that our youth were able to grow into the players they will become.

As the next captain of the Leafs, he will have shouldered the weight of the spotlight that is Leafland, and displayed true leadership to these young guns of today and the future. He will be a class act that will have led the Leafs to the promise land, and that's what he'll be remembered for. Whatever stats he's compiled up to this point, will merely be a footnote to a magical career.

I hope he's remembered as the Leafs Yzerman.

 

[Gallagbi]

Sure... doesn't change the fact. Like I said, they got Keith locked up for 5.5mil, will never happen again. History could have been much different if Keith was post new CBA. Could they have made the same Towes/Kane deals then? I dunno.... be hard.

How many teams could function off of 8 forwards making under 1mil? You better have great D, and better have a great G, and they do. Even with Stamkos, to have a team like Chicago will take us a long time.... We are far away... we have some pieces, but even those pieces are years away from making a large impact.

They certainly used the cap to their advantage with Keith and Hossa, but they'll also pay on the back-end now.

They've also won with cap anchors like Huet, Bickell and Campbell (with Toews and Kane on much more reasonable deals). So that's worth mentioning as well.

Every cup winner will need good bargains, that seems obvious to me. Previously it was with cap circumvention like Keith and Hossa, but you also have quality players desperate for contracts (look at all the 1-year deals we've signed then flipped for picks). You can still sign good deals without cap circumvention.

 

[Pookie]

Sorry, what is the argument. We aren't good enough for Stamkos or Stamkos isn't good enough for us?

It's that if Stamkos wants to lead a team to a Cup… this place isn't at the top of the list over his 7 years.

 

[Pookie]

Conveniently ignore the significant amount of players that will be under team control, the abundance of cap space we will have available to plug holes in the roster, and the assets available to trade to improve over the next few years to make a condescending comment.

Cool.

You mean the players that are in the OHL and AHL without much (if any) NHL experience that many fans have anointed as the future?

RFAs like Holland? Corrado? Marincin? Sparks? (and Rielly and Kadri)?

In a land far, far away from a Cup… it's called Toronto.

 

[Stephen]

It's that if Stamkos wants to lead a team to a Cup… this place isn't at the top of the list over his 7 years.

Sorry, 7 years ago the Los Angeles Kings were drafting ahead of the Toronto Maple Leafs.

A LOT can happen in 7 years.

 

[Gallagbi]

It's that if Stamkos wants to lead a team to a Cup… this place isn't at the top of the list over his 7 years.

If Stamkos wants to lead his hometown team to a cup I think we're his only option.

That'd be the reason he comes here.

 

[Purity*]

I imagine they view it a little differently and have far greater insight than the average fan. Personally, I doubt the question is even raised.

None of us are part of the management and none of us know anything that goes on behind the closed doors. Why are you here then? Atleast try and make some compelling arguments.

Cap space has never been more valuable than it is today, I don't think you can win a cup with 12M tied in a player like Stamkos. The recent cup winners support this notion quite thoroughly.

 

[Pookie]

Sorry, 7 years ago the Los Angeles Kings were drafting ahead of the Toronto Maple Leafs. A LOT can happen in 7 years.

In the 17 years between LA making the Cup final and actually winning it, they:

- Won 1 playoff series
- Missed the playoffs 11 times

7 years eh? It's funny when people start the "rebuilding clock"

#argumentofconvenience

 

[The Blue Leafs]

I understand the logic to not wanting to make Stamkos the highest paid player in the league....

However I don't understand the logic of not wanting to add one of the premier players in the league for nothing but cap space. Do you assume we already have our Claude Giroux or Patrick Kane in Nylander and Marner (I'm a big fan by the way) and will need the space when they ask for 10 million a year. What if there not?

Stamkos has his warts. So does Tavares, as does Toews. However the guy is a proven ELITE level player. 1st overall pick. Highest "Goal" scorer next to a guy named Ovechkin since entering the league. Only 26 years old when he is ready to sign.

I get saving for the future but how many great opportunities do you get in Life. Should we just sit on our hands and wait for Mcdavid? Because he's clearly coming and is clearly going to be the better player?

What if Stamkos come's and elevates what we do have. What if Marner becomes a greater player because he gets the chance to play with a GREAT player like Stamkos.

If it's all about money for Stamkos he won't be a Leaf. I think Management has already made this decision. However I think they are realists and have a number that's fair to compensate him with the UFA premium and not break our "cap" bank.

And with the way things are looking "cap" is an asset that we do have a lot of over the next year.

I don't see the problem. We are the Toronto Maple Leafs. The butt end of jokes in many circles. Yet we are to good for a UFA Stamkos? Oh boy.

 

[Gallagbi]

None of us are part of the management and none of us know anything that goes on behind the closed doors. Why are you here then? Atleast try and make some compelling arguments.

Cap space has never been more valuable than it is today, I don't think you can win a cup with 12M tied in a player like Stamkos. The recent cup winners support this notion quite thoroughly.

The NHL is going through a change period. Salaries for top players have never been as high as they are now, so it has never been tried.

I doubt he gets $12 personally, the market is set in the 8.5-11 range and $11 is a big stretch with Kane at 10.25

 

[Menzinger]

I'm still on the "pro" sign him side (barely), but i will say that it's not an efficient use of cap space to pay a guy whose on ice play that is worth 8-9 million 12 million a season. That's 3-4 million in dead capspace for the next 7 years. Management can likely work around that but it's not ideal (the Kings had a 5 million per year Mike Richards as a 4th line centre when they won the cup) and also keep in mind leafs have 1.2 million further dead cap space in Kessel retention.

i have no desire also to pay a player 12 million a year because of "intangibles". When that much capspace is involved it should be for on ice play.

So yes I'd still grit my teeth and sign him, but I may also likely breath a sigh of relief if he signs elsewhere.

 

[Stephen]

In the 17 years between LA making the Cup final and actually winning it, they:

- Won 1 playoff series
- Missed the playoffs 11 times

7 years eh? It's funny when people start the "rebuilding clock"

#argumentofconvenience

7 years ago, the Los Angeles Kings were busy drafting Brayden Schenn ahead of the Leafs.

I get people want a slow cook rebuild that takes a decade because there's a fun fetishistic aspect to that kind of pain but at least acknowledge that 7 years is a long, long time.

 

[ACC1224]

None of us are part of the management and none of us know anything that goes on behind the closed doors. Why are you here then? Atleast try and make some compelling arguments.

Cap space has never been more valuable than it is today, I don't think you can win a cup with 12M tied in a player like Stamkos. The recent cup winners support this notion quite thoroughly.

Killing time while I work, I wouldn't be here otherwise. I didn't know my opinion had to be held to a certain standard.

I form an opinion based on what I think is reality, it's always compelling whether I make up numbers or not.

 

[Ovate]

The market was pretty well set by Kane. If he wants more than 10.5, Stamkos is going to have to make the argument that he's better than Kane.

 

[Babcocks Marner]

The NHL is going through a change period. Salaries for top players have never been as high as they are now, so it has never been tried.

I doubt he gets $12 personally, the market is set in the 8.5-11 range and $11 is a big stretch with Kane at 10.25

People also seem to forget that those Kane and Toews deal were signed in happy times.
Oil was booming, the CDN dollar was roaring, cap growth expectations were very high.

Then Oil plummeted.

I am not sure what they would get today... although Kop just got 10, so maybe not so much difference. Great players always get paid I guess. I do think it would be lower though.

 

[Menzinger]

The market was pretty well set by Kane. If he wants more than 10.5, Stamkos is going to have to make the argument that he's better than Kane.

8 year vs 7 year contract.

And Stamkos is also a centre and will be on the open market.

To me this looks like a perfect storm to make him the highest paid NHLer in the salary cap era.

I'll jump for joy if he signs with the leafs for less than 10, but I'm confident it will be in the 11-12 range.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I understand the logic to not wanting to make Stamkos the highest paid player in the league....

However I don't understand the logic of not wanting to add one of the premier players in the league for nothing but cap space. Do you assume we already have our Claude Giroux or Patrick Kane in Nylander and Marner (I'm a big fan by the way) and will need the space when they ask for 10 million a year. What if there not?

Stamkos has his warts. So does Tavares, as does Toews. However the guy is a proven ELITE level player. 1st overall pick. Highest "Goal" scorer next to a guy named Ovechkin since entering the league. Only 26 years old when he is ready to sign.

I get saving for the future but how many great opportunities do you get in Life. Should we just sit on our hands and wait for Mcdavid? Because he's clearly coming and is clearly going to be the better player?

What if Stamkos come's and elevates what we do have. What if Marner becomes a greater player because he gets the chance to play with a GREAT player like Stamkos.

If it's all about money for Stamkos he won't be a Leaf. I think Management has already made this decision. However I think they are realists and have a number that's fair to compensate him with the UFA premium and not break our "cap" bank.

And with the way things are looking "cap" is an asset that we do have a lot of over the next year.

I don't see the problem. We are the Toronto Maple Leafs. The butt end of jokes in many circles. Yet we are to good for a UFA Stamkos? Oh boy.

Your first sentence answers the question implied in your second sentence.

Nothing but cap space ... if it's 9m cap space no problem. If it's "pay him anything he wants even if it's 14m it's a no brainer because OMG it's Steven Stamkos we're talking about" then no thanks.

 

[Gary Nylund]

8 year vs 7 year contract.

And Stamkos is also a centre and will be on the open market.

To me this looks like a perfect storm to make him the highest paid NHLer in the salary cap era.

I'll jump for joy if he signs with the leafs for less than 10, but I'm confident it will be in the 11-12 range.

I'm pretty sure Toronto won't pay him more than 10.5.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

It's that if Stamkos wants to lead a team to a Cup… this place isn't at the top of the list over his 7 years.

Why can't Stamkos be here for double that time frame? If I'm signing him, it's with the intent of pretty much taking him through to his retirement.