TBN: Stadium/Arena Thread

[Ehran]

Couldn’t the Pegula’s easily correct any errors in the story themselves if they wanted to? Every time something like this happens it’s “no comment” and people wonder why the facts are muddy.

It’s their whole thing, they don’t give a f*** what the hoi polloi think as long as their lifestyle is funded.

When have the Pegula's every been good at PR?

 

[WeDislikeEich]

They’re not going to get $1.5B in taxpayer money, that’s just ridiculous.

I believe the most taxpayer funds ever used to build a stadium was the $700 million for the stadium in Las Vegas (to lure the Raiders from Oakland).

Yankee Stadium got $600M from taxpayers.

I think Buffalo deserves to get a new stadium and keep the Bills.

We know that we’re eventually going to have to build a stadium to keep the team long term. That’s just how it is. Nothing we can do will change that.

28 of the 32 current NFL stadiums were built with taxpayer funds, the NFL is greedy and we know there are numerous other cities that would love to foot the bill for a new stadium in order to land an NFL team.

I don’t like it but I am ok with a small tax increase if it means we get to keep the Bills in Buffalo for decades to come.

We are a small market. If we lose the Bills and/or Sabres, we will never get another pro sports franchise here.

Realistically how much are our taxes going to go up? (curious, don’t know the answer) I’d guess nothing drastic.

I’d also argue that many of us gain more value from the Bills/Sabres than we do for some other things our tax dollars are used for.



I am not ok with taxpayers footing 100% of the bill though. Not unless Erie county is getting the revenue from other events held at the stadium, naming rights money, etc.
I think we should get that regardless, but I doubt it happens.

 

[Husko]

They’re not going to get $1.5B in taxpayer money, that’s just ridiculous.

I believe the most taxpayer funds ever used to build a stadium was the $700 million for the stadium in Las Vegas (to lure the Raiders from Oakland).

Yankee Stadium got $600M from taxpayers.

I think Buffalo deserves to get a new stadium and keep the Bills.

We know that we’re eventually going to have to build a stadium to keep the team long term. That’s just how it is. Nothing we can do will change that.

28 of the 32 current NFL stadiums were built with taxpayer funds, the NFL is greedy and we know there are numerous other cities that would love to foot the bill for a new stadium in order to land an NFL team.

I don’t like it but I am ok with a small tax increase if it means we get to keep the Bills in Buffalo for decades to come.

We are a small market. If we lose the Bills and/or Sabres, we will never get another pro sports franchise here.

Realistically how much are our taxes going to go up? (curious, don’t know the answer) I’d guess nothing drastic.

I’d also argue that many of us gain more value from the Bills/Sabres than we do for some other things our tax dollars are used for.



I am not ok with taxpayers footing 100% of the bill though. Not unless Erie county is getting the revenue from other events held at the stadium, naming rights money, etc.
I think we should get that regardless, but I doubt it happens.

There are roughly 1 million residents of Erie County. It would cost $1000 per person to raise a billion dollars.

Obviously the math wouldn't actually work out that way.

 

[Ehran]

There are roughly 1 million residents of Erie County. It would cost $1000 per person to raise a billion dollars.

Obviously the math wouldn't actually work out that way.

It wouldn't just be the Erie County residents that pay for the stadium, the state would kick in some as well, which would spread the cost across a much larger tax base.

Plus, the money would be raised through bonds payable across 10 years or so (just a guess on the length).

To use your example, that $1,000/resident of Erie County would actually be $100/year per resident, for 10 years.

Not to mention there would be fees added to ticket prices to help pay off the bonds, hotel tax fees, etc., etc.

To be clear, I'm against the use of public funds to build these stadiums. I just wanted to throw out how I understand the funding process would work.

 

[Jim Bob]

Pegula spokesman disputes report that Bills want $1.1 billion in public money for new stadium - ProFootballTalk

 

[joshjull]

Couldn’t the Pegula’s easily correct any errors in the story themselves if they wanted to? Every time something like this happens it’s “no comment” and people wonder why the facts are muddy.

It’s their whole thing, they don’t give a f*** what the hoi polloi think as long as their lifestyle is funded.

Go read the post I was responding to. It had their spokesman’s response. That’s why I posted what I did.

It wasn’t as widely reported like the clickbait

 

[explore]

Pegula spokesman disputes report that Bills want $1.1 billion in public money for new stadium - ProFootballTalk

"Here’s the text Precious added: “After publication of the story, a PSE spokesman, Jim Wilkinson, said the team is not seeking any funds for work at KeyBank Center [home of the Buffalo Sabres]. Wilkinson also said the figure of at least $1.1 billion being sought in public money for a new Bills’ stadium was incorrect; he declined to say if the request by the team was higher or lower.”"

Reads like a cop out. "We didn't ask for $1.1 billion!... it was actually $1.5 billion"

There are people in the state and country worrying about being evicted, parents worrying about providing basic necessities for their kids and the Pegulas are out here holding their diamond-encrusted golden chalice out asking for a small donation of a billion dollars

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Go read the post I was responding to. It had their spokesman’s response. That’s why I posted what I did.

It wasn’t as widely reported like the clickbait

All he said was "that's not 100% true." Didn't give any revised figures or new information, and didn't refute the report that they pointed to Austin as a potential alternate location. The spokesperson's response made them look worse, if anything.

It's legitimate news and not just "clickbait" or fake news to most people.

 

[Buffaloed]

When have the Pegula's every been good at PR?

When they first purchased the team Kim or Terry, and a merry band of groupies used to visit season ticket holders homes to show their appreciation for the fans.

 

[OkimLom]

When they first purchased the team Kim or Terry, and a merry band of groupies used to visit season ticket holders homes to show their appreciation for the fans.

You can thank Ted Black for that idea. Then when he went away, any good PR ideas went away.

 

[TehDoak]

When they first purchased the team Kim or Terry, and a merry band of groupies used to visit season ticket holders homes to show their appreciation for the fans.

To be fair, the photo ops with Terry and Kim visiting any sabres fans house unannounced might be needed as evidence for the criminal/civil trial later at this point. You ever see the Seinfeld episode where George's dad tells off Steinbrenner? It'd be a lot like that.

"WHY'D YOU SIGN SKINNER FOR SO MUCH?"

 

[Fezzy126]

Poloncarz with a briefing on a bunch of topics today, he briefly touched on the Bills:

 

[SnuggaRUDE]

If I'm the NFL I'd really want the Bills out of Buffalo. If I'm the NHL I'd certainly be open to the idea, but not leading that parade.

 

[TehDoak]

If I'm the NFL I'd really want the Bills out of Buffalo. If I'm the NHL I'd certainly be open to the idea, but not leading that parade.

See, I disagree here. Now that LA has two teams, what major market doesn't have a team?

San Antonio? You're stepping on Houston's market. Columbus? Pissing off both Cleveland and Cincy. Austin? Pissing off Dallas and Houston AND UT.

People flock to Buffalo games to tailgate. The fans generate more clicks and online content than fan bases of huge market teams. And you can always sell them as an underdog.

I don't think the NFL really has a horse in the race to relocate the Bills.

If I were the Pegula's, I'd want to get out of OP entirely and downtown. Work with the city about building up an arena district between the Sabres and new Bills stadium, shared parking between them and tailgate lots. Just make downtown Buffalo a big party central 8 sundays a year + playoff games + preseason games.

 

[Chainshot]

We are the well.

I feel like he's been drilling me for the last decade, that's for sure.

 

[MayDay]

See, I disagree here. Now that LA has two teams, what major market doesn't have a team?

Don't think this is a likely outcome for the Bills here, but playing devil's advocate...

You have St. Louis and San Diego, which have both recently lost their teams, yet remain major markets in terms of size.

And then you have cities like Toronto, Mexico City, London, etc. These are all enormous cities and major markets. Each comes with its own set of logistical challenges, but the NFL has been itching to extend its footprint overseas for years now.

 

[Husko]

Austin and San Antonio are only 90 minutes from each other and have about 5 million combined people between their metro areas, if we're talking about major markets without an NFL team.

 

[Ehran]

Austin and San Antonio are only 90 minutes from each other and have about 5 million combined people between their metro areas, if we're talking about major markets without an NFL team.

Spurs, Rockets, Mavs...... 3 NBA teams work pretty well in Texas so it can be done.

There is a TON of money and growth in Central Texas. Finding construction workers and companies that are available to do work is more of a hindrance to growth down here than people willing to build.

 

[TehDoak]

Austin and San Antonio are only 90 minutes from each other and have about 5 million combined people between their metro areas, if we're talking about major markets without an NFL team.

It's also 3 hours to Houston. I know several people in SA who are season ticket holders to the Texans. Austin is a little more Dallas leaning, but plenty make the drive for the Houston games as well.

I would almost guarantee both Houston (if not both Houston and Dallas) would oppose a NFL team going there.

Spurs, Rockets, Mavs...... 3 NBA teams work pretty well in Texas so it can be done.

There is a TON of money and growth in Central Texas. Finding construction workers and companies that are available to do work is more of a hindrance to growth down here than people willing to build.

the NBA is NOT the NFL.

I simply don't see it as an imperative to the NFL's growth to put a team in in that market like it was to have a team in LA. Texas is pretty well football central. I don't think adding a team to that metro area adds to overall eyeballs watching NFL on sunday there.

 

[Fezzy126]

If I'm the NFL I'd really want the Bills out of Buffalo. If I'm the NHL I'd certainly be open to the idea, but not leading that parade.

The revenue gaps between teams aren't what you might think. In the NFL, basically all teams are printing money when it comes to revenue.

Here’s How Rich Every NFL Team Is

According to the number from 2020, Dallas and (to a lesser extent) New England are the outliers in revenue generation.

Forbes also printed an article a few years back that was pretty interesting too:
NFL Small Market "Problem" Is Overblown

While population matters for revenue, the relationship is very noisy. Metro area (consolidated metro areas where available) can only explain about 15 percent of the differences in team revenue. The relationship tightens up some if Dallas (the highest revenue team) is dropped out but, then again, that also reduces the revenue gap.

The biggest gaps are driven by Dallas at $700 million per year in revenue and New England at $523 million. The stories behind the revenues generated by Dallas and New England undercut the "disadvantaged" narrative. Although both reside in the top ten market areas, their outsized revenues owe to sound and creative management. In New England's case it can be attributed to the past 20 years of on-the-field success. For Dallas, it can be chalked up to marketing and the stadium deal secured by Jerry Jones to take advantage of football-centric Texas and the Cowboys long run historical success and brand name.

Bottom line is that the small markets are pulling their weight in revenue generation.

 

[Bferra13]

This thread is a cesspool. The Bills arnt moving. As for the Sabres, who knows. There's a reason to be salty there with the way this franchise has been run. But buncha drama queens buying into ridiculous reporting. Just sayin. Even if the Pegulas threatened this, the whole thing is a negotiation. That's there first offer (it wasn't from the corrected reports), and you compromise from there.

 

[Husko]

This thread is a cesspool. The Bills arnt moving. As for the Sabres, who knows. There's a reason to be salty there with the way this franchise has been run. But buncha drama queens buying into ridiculous reporting. Just sayin. Even if the Pegulas threatened this, the whole thing is a negotiation. That's there first offer (it wasn't from the corrected reports), and you compromise from there.

A pox on both our houses!

 

[Cirris]

Honestly though, I'd even consider it being funded, if the stadium was a downtown dome in where the region could use it more than 10 times a year.

But if it's just going to sit out in OP again like the current sparsely used stadium, I ain't going to support it.

 

[joshjull]

 

[joshjull]

One of the things that’s forgotten when talking about market size is Buffalo gets short changed by the border. Metro Rochester and to a lesser extent metro Syracuse can get counted as places to draw fans/corporate money. But not the Toronto/Hamilton corridor which is one of the largest and wealthiest areas in North America. A place were a lot of corporate money can be tapped into (and is by the Bills). We also draw a large chunk of our fan base from Ontario.