TBN: Stadium/Arena Thread

[joshjull]

They’ll get the money or at least most of it. New York State has already handed out billions in funds, tax breaks, etc. to metro NYC sports teams at the major league and minor league levels. They’ve got even more projects in the pipeline down there adding to that total. It’s not just for stadiums but for supporting infrastructure as well.

 

[Beerz]

Stadiums are such a tricky thing...

They don't generate enough revenue to make it worthwhile for public funds ..

And it's not a smart business decision for it to be privately funded.

Should be a 50/50 split I guess.

But I agree..Bills stadium should be downtown and incorporated with a new home for Sabres.

 

[valet]

sorry but i don’t want to pay for a stadium in OP, you want county money you need to build it within city limits, preferably down at the outer harbor where there is tons of easily accessible undeveloped space

 

[valet]

The Pegulas are so fake lol. I really thought they cared about the people of Buffalo. Looks like just another business venture.

i’m sure they care, it’s just at the end of the day sports is a business and you have to make prudent decisions that guarantee financial sustainability, otherwise it just won’t happen anywhere

 

[sabremike]

I can't see the Bills being allowed to move because it would be a PR nightmare equal to the Browns moving that was so awful the league was pretty much forced to give them an expansion team and pay most of the costs to build a new stadium. If he tried to relocate the Sabres the league finds a Dundon type who wants to own a team and makes a condition of sale that they will be allowed to relocate on the 10th of never.

 

[paulmm3]

Say the stadium is a Covid treatment facility that doubles as an NFL stadium and see if you can get the Feds to pay for it

 

[kirby11]

I'm mostly bummed they're so committed to OP and not even considering a mega football/ice arena/harbor center/convention center/everything else in the world you could want facility in downtown Buffalo. Not only would it be way cooler and more useful (And let us knock down the hellhole that is the arena), but it would be a way easier sell for use of public funds.

Even discounting the roadblock of the Pegulas not being willing to invest the $ necessary for a downtown stadium, I think they'd run into some issues of property acquisition with the city. It's a colossal waste to build the Ralph 2.0 in OP, though. No real draw there outside of football.

 

[sabremike]

Even discounting the roadblock of the Pegulas not being willing to invest the $ necessary for a downtown stadium, I think they'd run into some issues of property acquisition with the city. It's a colossal waste to build the Ralph 2.0 in OP, though. No real draw there outside of football.

Not if the plan is to do what Kraft did in Foxboro with building a retail village.

 

[jfb392]

At least $200M will come from the Pegulas to get $200M in free money from the NFL. They aren't going to chip in nothing, but it's still going to be ugly.

I do chuckle that the $400M for renos to KBC. That's TWICE what it cost to build the place in inflation adjusted dollars.

I figure it’ll probably fall somewhere in between the last two renovations for arenas of similar age: Enterprise Center ($150M) and Wells Fargo ($300M), likely closer to Wells Fargo due to the expansive renovations required.

Like any negotiation, bid high and let it get talked down.

Even discounting the roadblock of the Pegulas not being willing to invest the $ necessary for a downtown stadium, I think they'd run into some issues of property acquisition with the city. It's a colossal waste to build the Ralph 2.0 in OP, though. No real draw there outside of football.

I’ve been told for years that they are eyeing the ECC campus in the hopes of getting the land at a discount.
It would also allow them to use the current stadium and facilities for practice purposes in the future.

 

[My Cozen Dylan]

At least $200M will come from the Pegulas to get $200M in free money from the NFL. They aren't going to chip in nothing, but it's still going to be ugly.

I do chuckle that the $400M for renos to KBC. That's TWICE what it cost to build the place in inflation adjusted dollars.

At that rate, spend a bit more and just build a new arena.

 

[SackTastic]

Even discounting the roadblock of the Pegulas not being willing to invest the $ necessary for a downtown stadium, I think they'd run into some issues of property acquisition with the city. It's a colossal waste to build the Ralph 2.0 in OP, though. No real draw there outside of football.

From sone I trust who is well connected in the Buffalo business community (but take this all with a grain of salt; I trust him, not saying anyone else should):

Pegula had been buying up a lot of property around the old Perry Projects to put the stadium there. The BMHA said they would be open to selling him the old projects, but only if everything was locked in and a done deal that it would be used for the stadium, and it was a fair price so they could acquire more land elsewhere to rebuild those units. Pegula was willing to pay them whatever they wanted, but the 'done deal' bit has obviously been elusive.

Eventually the BMHA got tired of waiting and put bids out on the redevelopment of the Perry properties last year, and that's why the OP site is back on the table.

 

[sabresnyper]

If they use our money, we should get free tickets, concessions, and parking. Who pays for that stuff at a building they paid to build? NOBODY

 

[SackTastic]

I figure it’ll probably fall somewhere in between the last two renovations for arenas of similar age: Enterprise Center ($150M) and Wells Fargo ($300M), likely closer to Wells Fargo due to the expansive renovations required.

Like any negotiation, bid high and let it get talked down.

Yup.

I said it before; I can't stand the Pegulas, but this was the first volley to see what they could get away with. It will not land anywhere close to that.

I do laugh at the leak about Austin being attributed to someone from the 'ownership group'. Complete BS. 100% that came from someone in state government to turn public opinion against the Pegulas early to get them to start moving down.

Welcome to NYS Politics, Terry.

 

[MayDay]

I can't see the Bills being allowed to move because it would be a PR nightmare equal to the Browns moving that was so awful the league was pretty much forced to give them an expansion team

The Rams, Raiders, and Chargers have all been allowed to relocate in recent years.

St. Louis and San Diego are both considerably larger markets than Buffalo, and I don't think either of them are in line to get a new expansion team as a replacement.

 

[SackTastic]

If they use our money, we should get free tickets, concessions, and parking. Who pays for that stuff at a building they paid to build? NOBODY

It's always your money, man.

For the Cowboys new stadium, the City of Arlington took out $150M as a direct loan to Jerry Jones. It was secured by all of the ticket and parking taxes collected at the stadium, and if there was not enough in a given year to cover the debt service, the Cowboys were on the hook to make the difference up.

Those sorts of deals are not terrible IMO, as long as they are structured so that the team is on the hook if enough money doesn't come through. It is essentially a loan to the team, but once the receipts cover that balance, the municipality does make out in the end.

Public financing that can help front some costs BUT protect the municipality can work , if done thoughtfully. But that is very rare, and most of the time the deal is very team slanted.

 

[SackTastic]

I can't see the Bills being allowed to move because it would be a PR nightmare equal to the Browns moving that was so awful the league was pretty much forced to give them an expansion team and pay most of the costs to build a new stadium. If he tried to relocate the Sabres the league finds a Dundon type who wants to own a team and makes a condition of sale that they will be allowed to relocate on the 10th of never.

The NFL owners don't want teams in Buffalo, Green Bay, etc. They prefer them to be in markets where they can make more money so all the other owners can make more money.

That being said, Modell moving the Browns will never happen again like that. The NFL charter has been changed so that can't happen; any move would have to be pre-approved. And if Pegula walked into a meeting saying "I have a deal for Austin to build me a $1.5B stadium, and we'll make 40% more every year", it will be approved.

 

[Jim Bob]

 

[Kublakhan]

The Pegula's are just going to burn this city to the ground on there way out aren't they??

 

[Fezzy126]

Twitter is f***ing overreactive volcano of petulant children today, so I've mostly stayed offline. But I happened to stumble across this - looks like PSE officially commented and TBN edited their article:

A PSE official declined to comment before this story was published.
After publication of the story, a PSE spokesman, Jim Wilkinson, said the team is not seeking any funds for work at KeyBank Center. Wilkinson also said the figure of at least $1.1 billion being sought in public money for a new Bills' stadium was incorrect; he declined to say if the request by the team was higher or lower.

Although TBN did still keep their headline (mostly) intact. What a hack job, oh well, I guess they they can take their clicks from today and maybe land an new advertisor or two...

 

[sabremike]

 

[joshjull]

Twitter is f***ing overreactive volcano of petulant children today, so I've mostly stayed offline. But I happened to stumle across this - looks like PSE officially commented and TBN edited their article:



Although TBN did still keep their headline (mostly) intact. What a hack job, oh well, I guess they they can take their clicks from today and maybe land an new advertisor or two...

Shocking that the nitwits online went nuts without the full story.

 

[dortt]

posted this in the Pegula thread, but probably more important here

Austin considered as destination for NFL's Buffalo Bills

Got this from our governor's facebook page. Abbott is taking note of a possible move

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

 

[Der Jaeger]

Say the stadium is a Covid treatment facility that doubles as an NFL stadium and see if you can get the Feds to pay for it

Fort Bragg’s ice rink is technically listed as a morgue. It received Army funding for upkeep.

 

[Doug Prishpreed]

Shocking that the nitwits online went nuts without the full story.

Couldn’t the Pegula’s easily correct any errors in the story themselves if they wanted to? Every time something like this happens it’s “no comment” and people wonder why the facts are muddy.

It’s their whole thing, they don’t give a f*** what the hoi polloi think as long as their lifestyle is funded.