TBN: Stadium/Arena Thread

[Taro Tsujimoto]

 

[brian_griffin]

What a lot of people don't get is Buffalo is basically a hick town a stones throw away from cow pastures and hunting camps. We don't know how to behave like cultured big city folks.

...and that's the way we like it...

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I think real reason is time and money. It would cost at least a billion more to build downtown. It's also a project that could easily stall due to lawsuits, environmental studies, historical preservation concerns mistakes, and cost overruns. All these things take time to resolve. The NFL could force the team to move if a suitable stadium isn't built in a timely manner.

Agreed. I live in a small city that is older than Buffalo, and, similar to Buffalo, has a 2-mile long downtown on a river. ~1 mile of BUF downtown roughly would be from Lasalle Park to the KBC, or from KBC to the south/east at Larkinville / Smith St. interchange to the 190 / railyard sidings. Just ~1 mile, or half of that length, has undergone substantial re-development / new development where I live, which has been done well via public-private coordination and is proactive and non-contentious for Enviro, historic preservation, and cost overruns. It has still taken years for the sewers, water, overhead utilities, roads, sidewalks, curbs, etc., to be updated, and all that independent of buildings themselves.

You have to also look at the stimulative nature of the dollars and long-term infrastructure improvements. Where is the money better spent. If you get infrastructure upgrades in the area to roads, power, etc, those could be much needed investments that aren't happening now and could help the area long-term.

Although I do agree in a very narrow and extremely limited way, to the contrary, you also need to look at "broken window" economic theory. Choosing not to spend that money (or more likely, the incremental money - i.e., the difference between two options) - a problem compounded by bureaucratic corruption - and ideally not collecting it in the first place, will do more to help NYS and WNY long term. No population growth in both NYS and WNY in the last 50 years is by far the biggest problem in the state. I estimate that NYS tax receipts have increased from ~$14.5B to ~$83B in that same timeframe, a CAGR of 3.5%. That's tax revenue, not expenditures, which I assume have increased substantially more. Logic test: If NYS spent an incremental (beyond their projected expenditures) $1 trillion over the next 10 years, would that cause people to move to NYS and stay there knowing that "largesse" must be paid back somehow, someway, sometime? Are you convinced the Buffalo Billion / Solar City / Buffalo Schools were economic successes AND the best use of taxpayer dollars? Or would, e.g., keeping government spending at 2022 levels for 10 years, or limiting growth to a 1% CAGR, do more good?

 

[Buffaloed]

...and that's the way we like it...

Agreed. I live in a small city that is older than Buffalo, and, similar to Buffalo, has a 2-mile long downtown on a river. ~1 mile of BUF downtown roughly would be from Lasalle Park to the KBC, or from KBC to the south/east at Larkinville / Smith St. interchange to the 190 / railyard sidings. Just ~1 mile, or half of that length, has undergone substantial re-development / new development where I live, which has been done well via public-private coordination and is proactive and non-contentious for Enviro, historic preservation, and cost overruns. It has still taken years for the sewers, water, overhead utilities, roads, sidewalks, curbs, etc., to be updated, and all that independent of buildings themselves.

Although I do agree in a very narrow and extremely limited way, to the contrary, you also need to look at "broken window" economic theory. Choosing not to spend that money (or more likely, the incremental money - i.e., the difference between two options) - a problem compounded by bureaucratic corruption - and ideally not collecting it in the first place, will do more to help NYS and WNY long term. No population growth in both NYS and WNY in the last 50 years is by far the biggest problem in the state. I estimate that NYS tax receipts have increased from ~$14.5B to ~$83B in that same timeframe, a CAGR of 3.5%. That's tax revenue, not expenditures, which I assume have increased substantially more. Logic test: If NYS spent an incremental (beyond their projected expenditures) $1 trillion over the next 10 years, would that cause people to move to NYS and stay there knowing that "largesse" must be paid back somehow, someway, sometime? Are you convinced the Buffalo Billion / Solar City / Buffalo Schools were economic successes AND the best use of taxpayer dollars? Or would, e.g., keeping government spending at 2022 levels for 10 years, or limiting growth to a 1% CAGR, do more good?

That reminds me. This book series seems made for you.

Serge Storms Books in Order

Serial killer Serge A. Storms and others appear in these satirical Florida thrillers:

www.readthistwice.com

 

[brian_griffin]

^^ @Buffaloed, I clicked through and admit I am intrigued.

 

[Buffaloed]

Stadium deal is done. It will not cost the taxpayers $1 billion, only $850 million

Buffalo Bills, New York State, Erie County reach 'ironclad' 30-year deal to build $1.4 billion stadium

The new stadium will be built directly across the street on Abbott Road, adjacent to Erie Community College’s South Campus, in what Gov. Kathy Hochul called “the largest construction project

buffalonews.com

Done deal; Agreement is reached on new Bills stadium in Orchard Park

After months of waiting, a deal has been announced on a deal for a new stadium and lease for the Buffalo Bills. Read more from our sister station, WBEN:

www.audacy.com

New Buffalo Bills stadium FAQs: Here's what we know

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. (WIVB) – The Buffalo Bills, New York State and Erie County agreed on a deal to build a new football stadium in Orchard Park, as well as a new lease agreement that ties the team t…

www.wivb.com

 

[Ehran]

Stadium deal is done. It will not cost the taxpayers $1 billion, only $850 million

Buffalo Bills, New York State, Erie County reach 'ironclad' 30-year deal to build $1.4 billion stadium

The new stadium will be built directly across the street on Abbott Road, adjacent to Erie Community College’s South Campus, in what Gov. Kathy Hochul called “the largest construction project

buffalonews.com

Done deal; Agreement is reached on new Bills stadium in Orchard Park

After months of waiting, a deal has been announced on a deal for a new stadium and lease for the Buffalo Bills. Read more from our sister station, WBEN:

www.audacy.com

New Buffalo Bills stadium FAQs: Here's what we know

ORCHARD PARK, N.Y. (WIVB) – The Buffalo Bills, New York State and Erie County agreed on a deal to build a new football stadium in Orchard Park, as well as a new lease agreement that ties the team t…

www.wivb.com

Hey, maybe they can take the $150M in "savings" and do some repairs on KBC?

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Can't wait to take the the new train out to OP to see the new stadium in a couple years...

ps edit: Metro bus, Lyft, not sure there is safe, direct way to bike from Buffalo to southtowns (about 15mi) ?

Would be nice if they build that area up like in Foxboro with a outlet mall.

Months back they talked about building up the ECC campus next door as part of the entire picture in the area, weeks ago ECC cut programs. Kids are taking classes online

US Soccer might give them bone at some point. Have to see the place first.

 

[brian_griffin]

This rendering here looks a lot like the current stadium...

 

[ValJamesDuex]

DLT

 

[Jim Bob]

This rendering here looks a lot like the current stadium...

Included was a conceptual drawing of the 60,000- to 62,000-seat stadium, featuring all-blue seating, a party deck and an overhang above the upper deck.

“I saw the sketches and think it’s going to be great,” Green Bay Packers president and suburban Buffalo native Mark Murphy said. “It’s smaller, but the footprint will be larger, and that’s been the trend across the league. It will have all kinds of amenities and more premium spaces.”

Two weeks ago, the Bills hired stadium architect Populous to design their new home, an indication stadium negotiations with the state and county ostensibly have been settled for a while. Complete renderings should be available in four to six months.

 

[ValJamesDuex]

Good article on the design of Spurs stadium (same firm hired by Bill's).

Make it Loud: Designing for Atmosphere at New Tottenham Hotspur Stadium - Populous

Learn how architects pushed the boundaries of design at the new Tottenham Hotspur Stadium to amplify the crowd noise on matchdays.

populous.com

 

[Jacob582]

After Bills stadium deal, will KeyBank Center upgrades become next priority?​

The Buffalo News

On the long list of improvements that could be undertaken: widening and opening up the narrow concourses, replacing the old seats, upgrading technology, digital screens and audio, reimagining concessions and retail offerings and improving the look and feel around the building and to its exterior.

And after the state agreed to kick in $600 million and county $250 million for the new $1.4 billion Bills stadium construction, there’s not much of an appetite at any level of government to help with funding for the arena

At this point, the county, which has an arena lease with the Sabres that expires in 2025, is not planning to put any funding toward renovations at the arena.
“Under the current lease, it is the responsibility of the team owner to do that,” said Peter Anderson

That’s because the arena is a crucial asset to downtown, hosting many events in addition to Sabres games and supporting businesses in the area

Some of my thoughts:

The Pegulas have prioritized the Bills over the Sabres at the moment. This also hurts downtown. Money has gone elsewhere instead of benefiting the city.

I wonder if they will wait until the arena lease is up in 2025 and then squeeze the county (and city as well) for more money for a major upgrade.

The article went more in depth on the 2019 study by architecture firm Populous which outlines ideas for upgrading KeyBank Center. Pretty interesting if you can get the paper. I wonder how many fans care about some of the upgrades. Like more roomy suites at the expense of regular seating.

 

[Djp]

Maybe theycan do a bills Sabres combo facility….

 

[RefsIdeas]

After Bills stadium deal, will KeyBank Center upgrades become next priority?​

The Buffalo News










Some of my thoughts:

The Pegulas have prioritized the Bills over the Sabres at the moment. This also hurts downtown. Money has gone elsewhere instead of benefiting the city.

I wonder if they will wait until the arena lease is up in 2025 and then squeeze the county (and city as well) for more money for a major upgrade.

The article went more in depth on the 2019 study by architecture firm Populous which outlines ideas for upgrading KeyBank Center. Pretty interesting if you can get the paper. I wonder how many fans care about some of the upgrades. Like more roomy suites at the expense of regular seating.

Some of the things wrong with KeyBank have got to be pretty bad. I went to a couple of Bisons game over the summer and holy cow - it seems like night and day from in-game presentation, food options, seats, merchandise etc. Plenty of different food options/vendors, craft beers, constant fan interaction, tons of promo nights etc. I get baseball is different from entertainment than hockey, but jeez - it made going to a Sabres game feel lousy compared to a $25 Bisons ticket.

 

[Gras]

Would they even be able to reno the arena in one offseason