Blue Jays Discussion: Spring Training Discussion: Countdown to the Season (Thursday at 3pm ET/noon PT)
- Thread starter The Nemesis
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Didn’t watch but reaction on Twitter and his stat line shows that Pardinho looked very sharp. Velo up a lot it seems.
MK78
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- Apr 8, 2023
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he has to, no options left and they'd just lose him to a claim. he needs a shot on the team IMO.
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
You'd think so. But I feel like Espinal is a trap decision that could cost Clement a spot because he was better for half a season 2 years ago.
phillipmike
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- Oct 27, 2009
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Better be the starting 3B. Guy has done everything you asked him.
Suntouchable13
Registered User
I kinda want Jays to snag Snell. Stack the rotation, why not?
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
We've got a week and a half until the season opener (Thursday the 28th in Tampa Bay). What's everyone think the 26-man roster is going to look like?
You can either assume 8-man pen with a 4-man bench or a 7-man pen with a 5-man bench.
Rotation
1) Berrios
2) Bassitt
3) Kikuchi#
4) Francis*
5) White/Gausman*
# denotes a LHP
*This is predicated on assuming Manoah starts the season on the IL while they figure out his shoulder and Gausman doesn't go on the IL and either they just extend him down to the 5th spot in the rotation at the start to give him as much runway to getting ready as possible or just skip his spot and run a bullpen day for a turn through the rotation until he's ready. I figure that with Guasman in the rotation will probably be Berrios, Gausman, Bassitt, Kikuchi, Francis in ideal order with White ready to step in if Francis scuffles.
Bullpen
I'm going with 8 arms at least to start for flexibility, to cover for the rotation injuries, because of asset management, and because positional versatility will let them carry fewer bench pieces.
1) Romano
2) Garcia
3) Green
4) Mayza #
5) Cabrera#
6) Richards
7) Swanson
8) White (if Gausman were to go on the IL and White was in the rotation you could give this to whoever. Pearson, Pop, Rodriguez, whatever)
No real surprises here. White has no options so he has to make the roster if they want to keep him and test him out. Looking at the guys with the inside tracks above, the players with options are Francis, Romano, Swanson, Mayza, and Cabrera. If they wanted to trim to a 7-man pen that would probably mean sending Francis down to retain White as SP5. White in the pen only works if you keep an 8-man pen because the next option for demotion would probably have to be Cabrera except that leaves you with only one lefty option.
Lineup (this is more or less the batting order but I'm not going to be married to it
1) Springer (RF)
2) Bichette (SS)
3) Guerrero Jr (1B)
4) Turner (DH)
5) Kirk (C)
6) Varsho (LF)
7) Biggio (2B)
8) Kiner-Falefa (3B)
9) Kiermaier (CF)
I know Kiner Falefa has not been great (though he's hitting .321 with 9 hits and 5 walks in 35 PAs this spring) but given what he was signed for I imagine he probably gets to start until he shows he can't. Biggio I'm not 100% on but he's a 2B, he showed some intriguing adjustments last fall and he looks good this spring in slightly limited PAs (.353 with a .500 (!) OBP and a 1.029 OPS in 22 PAs) So for now, why not.
Bench
1) Brian Serven/Danny Jansen (C)
2) Daniel Vogelbach (1B/DH)
3) Ernie Clement (IF)
4) Nathan Lukes (OF) or Santiago Espinal (IF)
I would've originally envisioned Schneider here but he's scuffled this spring (highest K rate of anyone with a realistic chance to make the roster. The only ones he trails are Cam Eden, Eduardo Escobar, and Will Robertson) and maybe he should get some run starting at 2nd or 3rd with the Bisons to get his groove back.
The last spot for me comes down to Lukes if you want a real 4th OF since Kiner-Falefa will be playing every day at least to begin the year or you're willing to see if Espinal has anything to rebound on (he's not doing well this spring. That 2022 all-star berth seems like it was 5 years ago at this point). In a perfect world I would hope Clement pushes Kiner-Falefa hard enough to take his job, relegate IKF to bench super-utility Zobrist/Marwin Gonzalez duties and then the last spot can stay with Lukes or reward another hot bat if the team needs it.
Jansen I assume starts the year on the IL even though he shouldn't miss a ton of time. Kirk can start until he gets back and Serven or whoever can be the backup catcher. It's not a big deal.
and please, no whingy "ooooh, that shit roster isn't going to win anything." comments. This isn't a dissection of how well the team will do, merely how you think it will be constructed when opening day rolls around.
You can either assume 8-man pen with a 4-man bench or a 7-man pen with a 5-man bench.
Rotation
1) Berrios
2) Bassitt
3) Kikuchi#
4) Francis*
5) White/Gausman*
# denotes a LHP
*This is predicated on assuming Manoah starts the season on the IL while they figure out his shoulder and Gausman doesn't go on the IL and either they just extend him down to the 5th spot in the rotation at the start to give him as much runway to getting ready as possible or just skip his spot and run a bullpen day for a turn through the rotation until he's ready. I figure that with Guasman in the rotation will probably be Berrios, Gausman, Bassitt, Kikuchi, Francis in ideal order with White ready to step in if Francis scuffles.
Bullpen
I'm going with 8 arms at least to start for flexibility, to cover for the rotation injuries, because of asset management, and because positional versatility will let them carry fewer bench pieces.
1) Romano
2) Garcia
3) Green
4) Mayza #
5) Cabrera#
6) Richards
7) Swanson
8) White (if Gausman were to go on the IL and White was in the rotation you could give this to whoever. Pearson, Pop, Rodriguez, whatever)
No real surprises here. White has no options so he has to make the roster if they want to keep him and test him out. Looking at the guys with the inside tracks above, the players with options are Francis, Romano, Swanson, Mayza, and Cabrera. If they wanted to trim to a 7-man pen that would probably mean sending Francis down to retain White as SP5. White in the pen only works if you keep an 8-man pen because the next option for demotion would probably have to be Cabrera except that leaves you with only one lefty option.
Lineup (this is more or less the batting order but I'm not going to be married to it
1) Springer (RF)
2) Bichette (SS)
3) Guerrero Jr (1B)
4) Turner (DH)
5) Kirk (C)
6) Varsho (LF)
7) Biggio (2B)
8) Kiner-Falefa (3B)
9) Kiermaier (CF)
I know Kiner Falefa has not been great (though he's hitting .321 with 9 hits and 5 walks in 35 PAs this spring) but given what he was signed for I imagine he probably gets to start until he shows he can't. Biggio I'm not 100% on but he's a 2B, he showed some intriguing adjustments last fall and he looks good this spring in slightly limited PAs (.353 with a .500 (!) OBP and a 1.029 OPS in 22 PAs) So for now, why not.
Bench
1) Brian Serven/Danny Jansen (C)
2) Daniel Vogelbach (1B/DH)
3) Ernie Clement (IF)
4) Nathan Lukes (OF) or Santiago Espinal (IF)
I would've originally envisioned Schneider here but he's scuffled this spring (highest K rate of anyone with a realistic chance to make the roster. The only ones he trails are Cam Eden, Eduardo Escobar, and Will Robertson) and maybe he should get some run starting at 2nd or 3rd with the Bisons to get his groove back.
The last spot for me comes down to Lukes if you want a real 4th OF since Kiner-Falefa will be playing every day at least to begin the year or you're willing to see if Espinal has anything to rebound on (he's not doing well this spring. That 2022 all-star berth seems like it was 5 years ago at this point). In a perfect world I would hope Clement pushes Kiner-Falefa hard enough to take his job, relegate IKF to bench super-utility Zobrist/Marwin Gonzalez duties and then the last spot can stay with Lukes or reward another hot bat if the team needs it.
Jansen I assume starts the year on the IL even though he shouldn't miss a ton of time. Kirk can start until he gets back and Serven or whoever can be the backup catcher. It's not a big deal.
and please, no whingy "ooooh, that shit roster isn't going to win anything." comments. This isn't a dissection of how well the team will do, merely how you think it will be constructed when opening day rolls around.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
- 27,505
- 3,169
I don’t think he’ll be starting but he sure as hell has earned a spot on the team.
That’s my fear too. It’ll look so bad on the team if they lose him for nothing to watch Espinal be nothing like he was before and after his run. Move him for nothing or just let him go
tmlfan98
No More Excuses #MarnerOut
Rotation
Berrios
Bassitt
Francis (even if Manoah were healthy I think he's a minor leaguer right now)
Kikuchi (behind Francis to line him up for the 1st Yankees series, a team he owns)
Gausman (assuming he's good to go with delaying his 1st start to 5th in the rotation)
Bullpen
Romano
Swanson
Green
Garcia
Richards
Mayza
Cabrera
White (out of options, and with seemingly improved enough stuff to be rosterable to start)
Lineup (Pretty much copy and pasted the "A" lineup Jays have been using all spring, since you said it's what I think not what I want)
RF Springer
1B Vlad
SS Bichette
DH Turner
LF Varsho
C Kirk
CF Kiermaier
3B IKF
2B Biggio
Bench
Brian Serven (backup C while Jansen is out)
Ernie Clement (part of 2B and 3B platoon)
Davis Schneider (part of 2B platoon, and LF vs LHP starters)
Santiago Espinal (I think Votto coming in will push Vogelbach out since Votto would fill the same role, but is willing to start the season in the minors. Helps the Jays with their 40-man crunch. Espinal will hold this spot as the 26th man who barely plays, until Votto is ready)
Would write my own but this is pretty much what I have.
A number of us have said it but they better keep Clement. Personally, I would trade Espinal. Give him a shot somewhere else. Jays have a lot of middle infielders on the team and even down in the minors. They won't get much for him but really no need for him.
Richards is a guy I could see later on being sent down or DFA'd. I don't think he will have a good year.
landy92mack29
Registered User
Seath The Scaleless
Paledrake
The Nemesis
Semper Tyrannus
Dr.Funk
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- Jul 2, 2004
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Your 2024 World Series Champion New York Yankees and World Series MVP Ernie Clement.
dredeye
BJ Elitist/Hipster
- Mar 3, 2008
- 27,505
- 3,169
Far cry from that long deal they were chasing. Boras really screwed his clients over this year. Snell for two years is a nice contract. I assume he’ll opt out barring injury
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
- 12,774
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Not crying for Snell but he is coming off a Cy Young and a 2.25 ERA, and all he could get is $62M? What more could/can he do?
At least Chapman and Bellinger made some sense but with the Yankees and Astros need of pitching, this is surprising.
Hard to see he eclipsing anything close to $200M next year.
Suntouchable13
Registered User
Come on, Jays, you can not be serious. Clement has to be in the opening day lineup. All regulars are playing and he is not there, I don’t like where this is going.
phillipmike
Registered User
- Oct 27, 2009
- 12,774
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I don't even care that much if he's in the starting lineup... I just care that he's on the roster.
Like... as impressive as he's been, the positions he would potentially play (outside of SS, which obviously isn't happening barring an injury), are 2B or 3B, where Biggio and IKF have both been fantastic this spring. I'm all for letting guys earn their spots on the team, and Clement has done that and more. Unfortunately for him, a bunch of other guys have, too.
The way the team has been hitting, someone who's had an excellent spring is going to be out of the starting lineup.
Suntouchable13
Registered User
I actually did not know about Biggio having a good/great ST. Thanks. That's really good.
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