Sooooo how about Evan Bouchard's defense last night

[Three On Zero]

Bouchard is an offensive defenseman that's prone to make boneheaded mistakes every game

Fixed

 

[Fourier]

Context matters.

Bouchard gets the most offensive zone starts among defensemen on the team, and plays almost exclusively with McDavid when he's in the lineup (65% of Bouchards five on five icetime is with McDavid and that's with #97 missing 3 full games).

Then lets look at last year and this away from McDavid 5 vs 5.

Toi 801:27 CF% 59.32 GF% 56.92 xGF% 58.79 SCF% 58.06 HDCF% 60.63 OZF% 52.72

Then we get: But what about Ekholm????? Here are his numbers away from Ekholm since last year.

TOI 315:43 CF% 61.00 GF% 56.25 xGF% 63.69 SCF% 61.49 HDCF% 65.10 OZF% 57.45

One also has to be careful about concluding too much from zone start stats.

Lets also look at Cale Makar over the same period away from MacKinnon.

TOI 515:02 CF% 45.19 GF% 41.86 xGF% 46.21 SCF% 49.15 HDCF% 46.39 OZF% 43.05

 

[ponder]

That 2nd goal against is legitimately hilarious, just awful defense from Bouchard.

Doesn't help the narrative that he's just a PP specialist feeding off of McDavid.

I do think this is an exaggeration, I'd describe him more as:

• He's great offensively, on the PP and at ES. Great shot, great vision/offensive instincts, very good puck mover. Obviously McDavid helps his numbers, but he'd score well on any team IMO (fewer points but still strong)
• He's a good possession driver in general, due largely to strong zone exits/transition play - few things drive possession like being able to cleanly exit the defensive zone, and cleanly enter the offensive zone
• He's bad defensively, poor effort far too often, and is frequently out of position. That doesn't mean he's bad overall at ES, he's not, his possession driving and offence more than make up for his defence, but he's bad defensively. Like if the other team has the puck and is pressuring, Bouchard is not who I want on the ice to prevent them from scoring, at all
• He's going to make around 1-2 legitimately terrible mistakes most nights

He's definitely a net positive player, at even strength and especially on the PP. He's a great guy to throw over the boards with possession dominating teammates like McDavid, as he'll help you make the most of that possession, and his defensive weaknesses/mistakes will be exposed less often.

But ... he also definitely should not be a Norris contender, as some want to make him out to be. IMO a Norris contender should be a guy you're happy to deploy in almost any situation, a guy the coach can really depend on for basically whatever needs to be done, definitely not a guy you need to shelter. There are rare exceptions if the offence is just SO amazing, like prime Karlsson, but these exceptions are really rare. Obviously Makar and Quinn are the clear top 2 Norris candidates (amazing offence and strong "all situations" guys), but there's also no way I'm putting Bouchard above guys like Hedman, Fox, Josi, Morrissey, Dahlin, Andersson or Carlson. And I'd personally have him a touch below guys like Faber, Dougie, Rielly and Seider too, although that's certainly far more arguable.

If he improves defensively, gets more consistent with his effort/motor, and cuts way down on the bad mistakes, I think he's got John Carlson upside, but IMO he's not there today. His offence and puck moving is on par with Carlson, maybe even a touch ahead, but he's well below Carlson in terms of defence and motor, and makes more bad mistakes.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Anybody that didn't think he was a top D in the league last year didn't watch the playoffs. He started slow last year but the second half of the season was good and in the playoffs was great. Typical Fluff

mooching off McDavid just like the rest of that team.

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

mooching off McDavid just like the rest of that team.

weird how d-men like Tyson Barrie never "mooched" off McDavid for a PPG season

 

[Soundwave]

Sure. But you could come up with better examples for Bouchard. Tyson Barrie maybe? Not Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby etc
Those players were certainly highly appreciated by all reasonable people.

Tyson Barrie in his wildest dreams would never have the playoffs that Bouchard just did.

Bouchard was the best player on either team in the Edmonton-Vancouver series, if not tell me who was better.

The comparable that I think of and maybe it's because he's Bouchard's coach is Paul Coffey. It's like Coffey is getting his comeuppance now for all the years he could sometimes drive Glen Sather crazy on the bench once in a while with wishy washy play but then come back and score a ton of points.

The more modern comparable may be John Carlson with the Caps but with more offensive ability.

 

[WetcoastOrca]

Tyson Barrie in his wildest dreams would never have the playoffs that Bouchard just did.

Bouchard was the best player on either team in the Edmonton-Vancouver series, if not tell me who was better.

The comparable that I think of and maybe it's because he's Bouchard's coach is Paul Coffey. It's like Coffey is getting his comeuppance now for all the years he could sometimes drive Glen Sather crazy on the bench once in a while with wishy washy play but then come back and score a ton of points.

I watched Coffey. He’s nowhere close to Mr. Coffey.
And sure he was one of the better players in the Van series. What does that prove exactly?
Skinner looked good in the SCF. Is he a great goalie?

 

[Soundwave]

I watched Coffey. He’s nowhere close to Mr. Coffey.
And sure he was one of the better players in the Van series. What does that prove exactly?
Skinner looked good in the SCF. Is he a great goalie?

I didn't say he was one of the better players, he was the best player in that series full stop.

When Stuart Skinner can ever say that maybe he'll have a case to be held in better esteem.

Bouchard's numbers in the playoffs last year were some of the highest since (well) Paul Coffey.

 

[HighLifeManIsHigh]

I didn't say he was one of the better players, he was the best player in that series full stop.

When Stuart Skinner can ever say that maybe he'll have a case to be held in better esteem.

Bouchard's numbers in the playoffs last year were some of the highest since (well) Paul Coffey.

There’s more to hockey than just points dude. That’s what you guys don’t understand. JT Miller was better in that series. I’m sure Bouchard had more points, but Miller was an absolute animal.

But his corsi and shit probably wasn’t as good, therefore, the stats obsessed fanbase thinks otherwise

 

[HabsWhiteKnightLOL]

I will never understand why you play as a dman if you cant play defensively

 

[TIGERCOOL]

The advanced stats community gaslighting about Bouchard's defence is very remeniscent of Jake Gardiner. With some guys you really should trust the eye test

 

[HighLifeManIsHigh]

The advanced stats community gaslighting about Bouchard's defence is very remeniscent of Jake Gardiner. With some guys you really should trust the eye test

What’s that? Stats!

 

[Frank Drebin]

The advanced stats community gaslighting about Bouchard's defence is very remeniscent of Jake Gardiner. With some guys you really should trust the eye test

Did you watch the nhl playoffs last spring

I watched Coffey. He’s nowhere close to Mr. Coffey.
And sure he was one of the better players in the Van series. What does that prove exactly?
Skinner looked good in the SCF. Is he a great goalie?

Skinner didn’t look good in any series, what are you talking about? He had a solid 2-3 games vs dallas otherwise he was complete ass

 

[Soundwave]

There’s more to hockey than just points dude. That’s what you guys don’t understand. JT Miller was better in that series. I’m sure Bouchard had more points, but Miller was an absolute animal.

But his corsi and shit probably wasn’t as good, therefore, the stats obsessed fanbase thinks otherwise

Tell me you didn't watch the series without watching the series.

Bouchard scored the game winner in 2/4 of the Oiler wins, including an OT winner, then in game 7 he had 2 points including setting up the game and effective series winning goal.

Miller was blanked in game 7.

Bouchard was a +7 in 7 games with 11 points to go with it, no one on the Canucks was close.

That Ekholm-Bouchard pairing dominated that series flat out, it's the primary reason the Oilers won the series (despite Skinner's best attempts to give it away).

 

[McPoyle]

There’s more to hockey than just points dude. That’s what you guys don’t understand. JT Miller was better in that series. I’m sure Bouchard had more points, but Miller was an absolute animal.

But his corsi and shit probably wasn’t as good, therefore, the stats obsessed fanbase thinks otherwise

Ah yes, being "an animal". Its how they describe the best of the sport for certain.

Please elaborate on how Thin Blue Line Miller was better than Bouchard in that series.

 

[HugginThePost]

Back to his Norris ways last night.......

.........I'm liking his chances more and more.

Time will tell. Just an embarrassment of riches on that blue line. Hope NUrse is back soon, they really need him!

 

[Raistlin]

Back to his Norris ways last night.......

.........I'm liking his chances more and more.

Time will tell. Just an embarrassment of riches on that blue line. Hope NUrse is back soon, they really need him!

That's what I'd want my 11 million dman to play defense, like opening a box of chocolates each night. Makes the game exciting I'd say.

 

[Neil Racki]

The comparable that I think of and maybe it's because he's Bouchard's coach is Paul Coffey.

The more modern comparable may be John Carlson with the Caps but with more offensive ability.

Dude .. as someone who watched a ton of Paul Coffey and John Carlson

No where f***ing close to Paul Coffey

More offensive ability Carlson? Much better comparison