Thank you for being one of the few objective posters in this thread who is willing to apply reasonable analysis to both players vs. cherrypicking metrics when it suits to make an argument against Crosby.
Here is a list of the excuses for McDavid:
1. He never played on as good a team as Crosby did which explains less playoff chances and a lower chance at winning the Cup
You can easily argue that the 2024 Oilers team was better than the 2009 Pens. Crosby took one of the worst teams of the post lockout era (.345 pt% vs. .427 for the 15/16 Oilers) to the playoffs within one season, to a SCF within two seasons, and to a Cup within three. You can make a decent argument that Draisaitl has been just as effective as Malkin was in the last three season was and that Bouchard was better than any Pen d-man.
The 2009 Pens (EVEN) went goal for goal with the 2009 Red Wings - except when Crosby (-3) was on the ice.
The 2024 Panthers outscored the 2024 Oilers (-2) - except when McDavid (+5) was on the ice.
Don't knock the guys who helped win the Cup when Crosby was sitting on the bench (or dressing room as in Game 7).
Malkin scored 36 points. Aside from Gretzky, Mario Lemieux, Paul Coffey, and now Connor McDavid beat 36 points once. Draisaitl never did that. Hell, Crosby never did that.
Malkin's 8 points in the 2009 Finals was a little more helpful than Draisaitl's 3 points. Swap those two players and the results flip.
2. He never had a linemate step up like Malkin did in the '09 SCF.
Draisaitl and Bouchard were better than McDavid in the series against the Canucks.
That's fine. Other players were great - but McDavid played well too.
In 2009, Crosby did not. Crosby had 3 points, vs McDavid's 9. To replicate the Malkin:Crosby ratio, where Crosby is getting outscored 8-3 by Malkin, Draisaitl would have had to put up 24 points.
It's not like the 2009 Wings series or the 2016 Caps series where non-Crosby Penguins win the series while their captain doesn't produce.
3. McDavid's underlying stats are superior so that is an edge if their PPG
How about Crosby vs. the Habs in 2010? How about putting any of those underlying stats into context when the quality of linemates and/or goaltending is considered, notably 2009 vs. 2022.
I'm not sure of the point? McDavid scored 11 points, more than double his closest teammate in the 2024 Finals. Against the 2010 Habs, Crosby was outscored by Alex Goligoski.
4. McDavid faced Vezina level goaltending, Vezina level goalies, top defensive teams
Crosby faced Halak in 2010, the Jackets and Caps in 2017. Markstrom and the Flames blew up in 2022.
The Flyers figured out Halak the following week. Holtby wasn't great in 2017. Crosby had 7 points on 17 Pens goals (including a 3-2 win in a game that Crosby missed.)
The Florida Panthers were pretty good at GA prevention too. McDavid scored 11 points. Crosby's never hit double digits against a top 10 defensive team.
In fact McDavid's consistently faced stronger defensive teams than Crosby:
Post #26
5. Goaltending let McDavid down
Fleury was bad against the Caps in 2009 and against the Habs in 2010
Goaltenders are going to ebb and flow. They'll have good showings and bad showings.
But is this really a contest? If you need to win a series are you picking Fleury or Skinner?
I take it this is the time you'll overlook the Canucks series where Skinner posted
an .833 save percentage.
6. The rest of team didn't produce, it was all on McDavid
How about Crosby in 2010 when he had the Pens positioned in Game 6 to advance against the Habs?
And how about 2018?
McDavid scored 11 points in the Finals. The next best on the team scored 5.
When did Crosby outscore his next best teammate by 2x?
Against the 2010 Habs 2 Pens defenders outscored Crosby, and 1 tied him, while forward Chris Kunitz also tied him.
You may be referring to the 3 points in 7 games Malkin scored, but can you imagine how much you'd complain if Crosby managed to get 11 points instead of 5?
7. McDavid didn't have to produce in Game 6 of the SCF as his team finally gave him some support. He played a controlled game.
How many more points does Crosby have if he played a less controlled game? And notably in 2009, the reason the Pens were in a good position was because Crosby opened the scoring six times.
How many more points does he have if the focus was on maximizing his production rather than playing a less risky strategy?
McDavid doesn't deserve a ton of praise for the 0-point games, but when he was out there in Games 6 and 7 his team had the puck a lot, they outshot the other team, and even if he didn't score, they outscored the Panthers when he was on the ice (+1 in game 6, Even in Game 7).
None of this happened for Crosby in his scoreless Games 5 and 6 against the Wings, when he was a -2, and a -1, and his team was outshot and outpossessed. He did manage to avoid a minus in Game 7, but missing most of the game should not constitute a controlled game.
And if you think the first goal is crucial, well, the Penguins opened scoring 5 times, and Sidney Crosby 0 times in the 2009 Finals. And the two times the Wings opened scoring, were low effort defensive plays by #87.
Game 1: Crosby lazily waves his stick at Brad Stuart in the hopes that it doubles as a magic wand.
Game 5: Some people like to stand in passing lanes. Others put their sticks in them. And then there are those who simply watch a puck being freely exchanged between Red Wings and a goal being scored.
McDavid had some great games, and in Games 6 and 7, at least there were chances and, crucially, the Panthers didn't get much going.
Crosby had some okay games, but in his 0-point outings, the Wings outplayed the Pens, and they also outscored the Penguins when Crosby was playing.
