Some details about the World Cup...
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TollefsenFan
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Why not split the hockey world in two. Those who want to play for NHL World Cup can do that and the others can stay With the IIHF WHC. That would make it so much easier, than all this *****ing
Zine
Registered User
- Feb 28, 2002
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Every year the WHC accommodates European schedules and screws NA. Word comes out the World cup will be back and accommodate the NA schedule and suddenly it`s unfair and everyone is up in arms. Yeah, that`s REAAAALLY unfair
False.
Euro leagues accommodate the WHC.
And unlike the NHL, Euro leagues even accommodate the WJC by allowing players to participate.
Actually there's nothing really to suggest either way what they are thinking in regards to the World Cup, unless you have information that's out of the public realm.
Really, when exactly did the European leagues alter their schedules to accommodate the WHC... never. The WHC was originally the European Championships. It has always been structured around the European schedules. The Euro leagues didn`t all get together and collectively decide to sacrifice money and finish their playoffs early for the WHC. The European leagues do not accommodate the tournament as you say, the tournament has always accommodated them.
WJC eligible players playing in mens` leagues are generally high potential players and the NHL is their goal. The WJC is a significant scouting event (for undrafted guys to get noticed, or to evaluate the progress of those already drafted and how they match up), not to mention a great development opportunity. Denying these players access to tournament would be a quick way for European leagues to lose the limited years they get young phenoms playing in them. That`s self interest, not accommodating. On the development angle, playing in the NHL is better development than the WJC, which isn`t necessarily the case in all of the European leagues. Regardless, I`m not sure what the WJC has to do with the WHC being scheduled around European playoffs.
CAN, USA, SWE, CZE, RUS, FIN are top 6, then you've got a pretty big drop, then SUI and SVK and then a massive drop to the rest.
I want to see the top teams compete head to head as it makes for much more entertaining hockey, and the impact these tournaments have on growth is greatly overstated. I don't have any issue with qualifying games for the bottom teams like the WBC does, which is a much much better system than the IIHF has for the OG.
My ideal format would be 8 teams, each team plays each other twice in a round robin, top 4 go to SF, bottom two have qualify for the next one. That way every game would be meaningful and between teams of a similar talent level.
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The gaps in points according to the IIHF World Ranking top 20:
1. Sweden 3990
2. Finland -35
3. Russia -40
4. Canada -65
5. Czech Republic -105
6. United States -5
7. Switzerland -270
8. Slovakia -25
9. Latvia -145
10. Norway -35
11. Belarus -95
12. France -5
13. Germany -40
14. Slovenia -85
15. Denmark -35
16. Austria -55
17. Kazakhstan -40
18. Italy -50
19. Hungary -300
20. Ukraine -60
So yes, there's a gap between the 8th and the 9th, but much smaller than the one between the 6th and the 7th and fairly similar to the 4th and 5th gap.
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
False NHL teams do let there players play in the WJC. NHL teams allow there players to participate in the WHC if there teams are out of the playoffs or have just been eliminated.
Most Euro league playoffs are over at the start of the WHC - Are they not ?
Those top 8 countries alone have 84% of the world's indoor arenas, roughly 91% of the world's hockey players and 97% of the world's NHL players. The gap between 8 and the rest is going to be skewed if you are looking at the IIHF rankings since the rankings are mostly based on the World Championships, and the top 8 don't have nearly as high a percentage of their top players at the WC as 9 through 49 do.
If you look only at the top 6, it is still 81% of arenas, 89% total players, 95% of NHLers.
By comparison the 12 teams ranked 9 - 20 represent 9% of arenas, 6% total players, 2% of NHLers.
As I said earlier, there is a big drop between 6 and 7 and then a huge drop between 8 and the rest.
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It doesn't matter whether Canada is ranked first or fourth, especially when you go down the list the IIHF tournaments are entirely sufficient to rank the countries as the smaller ones always play pretty much "best-on-best" anyway. But okay, you want Olympics so let's see what kind of results did we see the previous times between the borderline countries (Slovakia & Switzerland vs. those ranked lower)?
2014
Slovakia 1:3 Slovenia
Switzerland 1:0 Latvia
Switzerland 1:3 Latvia
2010
Switzerland 5:4 (OT) Norway
Slovakia 6:0 Latvia
Switzerland 3:2 (SO) Belarus
Slovakia 4:3 Norway
2006
Switzerland 2:2 Germany
Switzerland 3:3 Italy
Slovakia 6:3 Latvia
Slovakia 2:1 Kazakhstan
2002
Slovakia 0:3 Germany
Slovakia 6:6 Latvia
Slovakia 2:3 Austria
Switzerland 3:3 France
Switzerland 2:5 Ukraine
Switzerland 2:1 Belarus
Slovakia 7:1 France
Switzerland 4:1 Austria
1998
Slovakia 2:2 Austria
Slovakia 4:3 Italy
Slovakia 3:4 Kazakhstan
Slovakia 2:4 Germany
Switzerland didn't qualify
So yes, the Swiss and the Slovaks have a winning record against the collective of the weaker nations, Slovakia 6-2-5 and Switzerland 5-3-2. However I fail to see how the results would indicate a huge gap between these two and those below them. Germany even has an unbeaten record (2-1-0) against the two.
Can you clarify your point for me? Because I think we're agreeing with each other. I'm saying that the entire rating system is flawed and you're saying you don't understand the gap between Germany and the Swiss/Slovaks.
My initial thought would be some success of Switzerland/Slovakia against top teams, but they aren't the only ones to do that (Belarus, Slovenia and France, etc.)
Theokritos
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- Apr 6, 2010
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Every year the WHC accommodates European schedules and screws NA. Word comes out the World cup will be back and accommodate the NA schedule and suddenly it`s unfair and everyone is up in arms. Yeah, that`s REAAAALLY unfair
I can't speak for other Europeans, but I'm certainly not in arms and I'd love an additional best on best tournament like the World Cup. As for the schedule, the WHC accomodates European league schedules for sure, but it should also be noted that 1) the WHC has been moved back more and more since the 1970s to accommodate the NHL schedule and that 2) the Europeans have accommodated their league schedules time and time again since the 1972 Summit Series to make September events (like the Canada Cup/World Cup) possible. So it's not like there is no willingness to make compromises on the European side.
Wow, had Karri Kivi known that, I think he would have picked Aleksander Barkov as his #1 center instead of Teuvo Teräväinen, and I think he might have used Olli Määttä as well. Sadly no one told him about this.
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
So it is 100% of the time then ?
You are assured it's a NHL scandal and some GMs are doing it on purpose ?
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
It's no scandal. NHL teams pay these guys big money. They obviously don't have to let them play in the world juniors if they don't want to. But you can't really compare the NHL to the European leagues in this respect, like you did. Helsingin Jokerit let Teuvo Teräväinen play in the World Juniors even though he was their #1 center, and no Finnish Elite League team will keep their players from playing in the WJC, but guys like Nathan MacKinnon and Barkov aren't released for the tournament.
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
I think NHL GMs have a right to determine that decision. This, of course, has nothing to do with the subject of this thread.
cutchemist42
Registered User
A proper World Cup needs to involve the World, or else its just a faux identity. I really hope the NHL states a clear way publicly for all federations to know where they stand, and how they can get into it.
That's what I just wrote. But don't say NHL teams let their players play in the WJC, when the best ones are unavailable. Te best players from Europe are available. That's the difference.
Every year the WHC accommodates European schedules and screws NA. Word comes out the World cup will be back and accommodate the NA schedule and suddenly it`s unfair and everyone is up in arms. Yeah, that`s REAAAALLY unfair
If they keep sending NHLers to olympics I do not have any problem with World cup. If not, can you please clarify what is the most suitable schedule for NA fans? Best of best tourney every 8 years or every 6 years or it depends how Betman wakes up? Just check for how much europeans go to NHL and you will find that 14 days break is just one compromise and "commitment" NHL makes for int. hockey....
SanDogBrewin
Righteous bucks!
Most GMs do, you made it sound like they don't at all. Your point to, once again, was make the NHL look bad in some way. The NHL still has the best players in the world.
If young players or their countries they represent are so concerned that they might not be able to play in the WHJC then don't sign an NHL EL deal yet, wait a year.
perfect timing, it would be weird even for Anaheim fans. Is there any ice in arenas in july???
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