Some details about the World Cup...

[Jablkon]

So does NHL consider to keep NHL players both in Olympics and in World cup?

What I personally do not like on world cup is that it is spreaded to all participating countries. In my opinion - tourney should be one compact unit with all fans from all over the world drinking and cheering for their teams. This is like everywhere and nowhere...

Btw. I would say that World cup could not exist without Olympics. If NHL does not bring smth very very special with long time vision it will be always accepted just as compromise for NA fans.But if it should be just sole best of best, it would not be globally accepted.Neither 1996 was. I have never heard anybody to say that USA is number one in that times....

 

[WinTheRightGames]

The last few pages in a nutshell: Finland must start losing games with big margins so that hockey can grow.

 

[albator71]

I hate to break this to you but any of the top 6 teams could play an ultra defensive system if they chose to. The only reason Finland has stuck to it is because they have no other choice. I love hockey, but one of its shortcomings is that vastly less talented teams can remain competitive by playing these mind numbingly boring systems, which would be fine if the product was in the least bit entertaining, but it is not.

One thing I find funny is that you are so big on the exposure the Olympics brings to the game and how it is going to grow the sport. How many new hockey fans do you think Finland attracted this year playing like that? You can pretty much guarantee that if someone's first exposure to hockey was a Finland game at the OG that it is the last time they will ever watch a hockey game. Best on best should showcase the best qualities of hockey, and what Finland does hurts the sport instead of helping it.

Canada's games weren't very exiting either at the Olympic, a lot of 1-0 2-1 games.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

So does NHL consider to keep NHL players both in Olympics and in World cup?

What I personally do not like on world cup is that it is spreaded to all participating countries. In my opinion - tourney should be one compact unit with all fans from all over the world drinking and cheering for their teams. This is like everywhere and nowhere...

Btw. I would say that World cup could not exist without Olympics. If NHL does not bring smth very very special with long time vision it will be always accepted just as compromise for NA fans.But if it should be just sole best of best, it would not be globally accepted. Neither 1996 was. I have never heard anybody to say that USA is number one in that times....

I definitely think the NHL owners are moving towards not shutting down the NHL season for two weeks for the Olympics. I would say that some North American hockey fans are drinking and cheering during the Olympics, WHC, WJHC and the World Cup even when it's real early.

You do realize that NA hockey fans have to get up at very early hours, at times, to watch the Olympics, WHC and WJHC when they are overseas. So yes there is definitely compromise on the part of fans in North America.

I don't know many US hockey fans that thought they were #1 in the world after the 96' World Cup. What most American Hockey fans were happy about was winning something important to them, especially on Canadian ice, since 1980. Most certainly did not make the US #1.

 

[Yakushev72]

Even Europeans would not want to see an Olympics with KHL players, that would be an embarrassment for the game of Hockey having a league with only a handful of players who truly belong at that level. It's the one and only international tournament which has significance and which everyone cares about and watches, and if the best players don't show up there, there is really no international tournament that the sport of Hockey will have to showcase Hockey's true brilliance. Arrogant post, best on best matters to everyone, it's the only tournament that proves anything, well perhaps not to you because Russia hasn't won in decades now and will never win one for the foreseeable future.

The KHL's long-term goals include emerging as the peer, and then maybe more later, who knows, the better of the NHL. What they need is a breakthrough marketing opportunity, and if the NHL offers them the opportunity by holding back from the 2018 Games, the KHL will do everything in its power to fill the void. You're greatly overestimating how much people care about the so-called best on best. They'll watch Finland vs. Sweden or Russia vs. USA regardless of who is wearing the uniforms.

 

[Yakushev72]

If the Europeans don't play ball with the NHL on a WCup then they will lose getting to see most of their best players at the OG. Seems logical doesn't it?

One reason so many Euro fans are bitter with the NHL is that their best players leave for NA and they don't get to see them regularly any more. If the NHL pulls out of the OG that will only make it worse for those fans.

Again, the best on best thing is a Canadian construct, and European fans actually kind of marvel as to why its such a big deal to Canadians. l

 

[Urbanskog]

The KHL's long-term goals include emerging as the peer, and then maybe more later, who knows, the better of the NHL. What they need is a breakthrough marketing opportunity, and if the NHL offers them the opportunity by holding back from the 2018 Games, the KHL will do everything in its power to fill the void. You're greatly overestimating how much people care about the so-called best on best. They'll watch Finland vs. Sweden or Russia vs. USA regardless of who is wearing the uniforms.

The KHL should dump the silly foreigner limits to ever compete with the NHL though.

 

[Jussi]

The KHL's long-term goals include emerging as the peer, and then maybe more later, who knows, the better of the NHL. What they need is a breakthrough marketing opportunity, and if the NHL offers them the opportunity by holding back from the 2018 Games, the KHL will do everything in its power to fill the void. You're greatly overestimating how much people care about the so-called best on best. They'll watch Finland vs. Sweden or Russia vs. USA regardless of who is wearing the uniforms.

Considering they're lowering the salary cap to around 22 million euros and eliminating NHL/star player exemptions from it, that would suggest the intention is to create a "healthy league" rather than trying to compete with the NHL on unrealistic business models.

 

[Jussi]

The KHL should dump the silly foreigner limits to ever compete with the NHL though.

It would be counter-productive for the future of the league. It would open the door for more players from other European leagues and dilute those leagues more, thus making the developmental environment much worse for future players.

 

[Theokritos]

Again, the best on best thing is a Canadian construct, and European fans actually kind of marvel as to why its such a big deal to Canadians. l

Not every European fan would agree, I certainly don't.

 

[Lepardi]

You do realize that NA hockey fans have to get up at very early hours, at times, to watch the Olympics, WHC and WJHC when they are overseas.

Why do you even ask this? This question has nothing to do with what Jablkon wrote. If the World Cup is played in Toronto, Europeans will have to watch the games after midnight, and when the Olympics are played in Europe, the times of the games are not ideal for Americans.

Jablkons point was that when you put the fans from every participating country in the same city, you get more of a major sporting event feeling. If the European fans who attend the games are drinking in Helsinki, Stockholm and Prague and the North American fans are drinking and cheering for their teams in Toronto and St. Paul, all the fans are obviously not drinking and cheering for their teams together. When a Finnish fan is in Toronto and it's 7 PM there, it's 7 PM for the Finnish fan too, even though it's 2 AM in Helsinki. He's still got plenty of time to get hammered.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

You're greatly overestimating how much people care about the so-called best on best. They'll watch Finland vs. Sweden or Russia vs. USA regardless of who is wearing the uniforms.

As long as it is on the right continent

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Jablkons point was that when you put the fans from every participating country in the same city, you get more of a major sporting event feeling.

The games don't need to be in the same city to be good or enjoyable for fans. That's irrelevant and makes no sense. The WJHC will be in Montreal and Toronto in 2015 doesn't change thing, they are both awesome cities.

 

[Lepardi]

The games don't need to be in the same city to be good or enjoyable for fans. That's irrelevant and makes no sense. The WJHC will be in Montreal and Toronto in 2015 doesn't change thing, they are both awesome cities.

That's true. However, Montreal and Toronto are pretty close to each other. That's why I think having a tournament (like the World Cup for instance) in Montreal and Toronto is way better than having the tournament in Montreal, Toronto, St. Paul, Helsinki, Stockholm, Prague and Bratislava. With Montreal and Toronto it's still pretty compact.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

That's true. However, Montreal and Toronto are pretty close to each other. That's why I think having a tournament (like the World Cup for instance) in Montreal and Toronto is way better than having the tournament in Montreal, Toronto, St. Paul, Helsinki, Stockholm, Prague and Bratislava. With Montreal and Toronto it's still pretty compact.

Having the Tournament preliminary games overseas in Europe is a good idea for travel. When there was change to the World Cup I felt that the NHL was trying to appease the Countries over seas.

There are some that still think it's unfair that the finals were in North America. Double standard when Canada and the US have to fly over every year for the WHC.

Hoping for a fair compromise. But I have a feeling that some will still complain

 

[Theokritos]

There are some that still think it's unfair that the finals were in North America. Double standard when Canada and the US have to fly over every year for the WHC.

Never during a tournament, between QF and SF.

 

[Lepardi]

Having the Tournament preliminary games overseas in Europe is a good idea for travel. When there was change to the World Cup I felt that the NHL was trying to appease the Countries over seas.

There are some that still think it's unfair that the finals were in North America. Double standard when Canada and the US have to fly over every year for the WHC.

You can't really compare the WHC to the World Cup in this respect. In 2004 Finland played their quarter-final in Helsinki on September 6th. Then they travelled to Saint Paul through eight time zones and played USA in the semi-final on September 10th. That's a whole lot different than travelling to the tournament two or three weeks before the crucial games are played.

So if the Europeans want to be competitive in the semi-finals, it would be better for them to play the round robin in America too.

 

[SanDogBrewin]

So if the Europeans want to be competitive in the semi-finals, it would be better for them to play the round robin in America too.

The disapproval of this is about 5 pages long.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

The whole "grow the game" argument is delusional. Ice hockey will always be a marginal sport in countries like Germany and Austria. It would be totally moronic for Finland to indulge in a scoring contest against Canada or Sweden to grow ice hockey globally. Ice hockey has no potential to be a global sport.

Agreed in terms of hockey's potential to grow, and I'm fine with it

Canada's games weren't very exiting either at the Olympic, a lot of 1-0 2-1 games.

kind of takes two teams to make an exciting game....

Again, the best on best thing is a Canadian construct, and European fans actually kind of marvel as to why its such a big deal to Canadians. l

Best on best was really started by Europeans for soccer. I've got to ask, are you actually from Europe?

The last few pages in a nutshell: Finland must start losing games with big margins so that hockey can grow.

Or maybe we take a hard long look at the unhealthy relationship so many people have between nationalism and sports and think of other ways to promote the game....

 

[Rekin]

Best on best was really started by Europeans for soccer.

In European soccer all noteworthy competitions are open though, and even the smallest participants have an equal chance to qualify. Invitational tournaments between a set of biggest nations have never been popular.

 

[Kalzu]

You can't really compare the WHC to the World Cup in this respect. In 2004 Finland played their quarter-final in Helsinki on September 6th. Then they travelled to Saint Paul through eight time zones and played USA in the semi-final on September 10th. That's a whole lot different than travelling to the tournament two or three weeks before the crucial games are played.

So if the Europeans want to be competitive in the semi-finals, it would be better for them to play the round robin in America too.

And Finland won the semi plus Czechs had a tight semi ending in OT. So I can't really say the time difference mattered. The NA matches started usually six hours later than the Euro matches but that's less than the difference between morning and evening matches at the Olympics. Of course, there's the time difference of 8 hours between Helsinki and St. Paul but it's easier when travelling to west and the Euro team had one more day between the QF and the SF.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

In European soccer all noteworthy competitions are open though, and even the smallest participants have an equal chance to qualify. Invitational tournaments between a set of biggest nations have never been popular.

Hockey has such a massive drop off in terms of participation, infrastructure and talent after the top 6 or 7 countries that it is pretty easy and fair to have an invitational tournament. Soccer is obviously very different in this respect.

 

[Rekin]

You'd say it's different to have Honduras, Iran and Algeria in the FIFA World Cup than it'd be to have Slovenia, Kazakhstan and Austria in the World Cup of Hockey? I think the "hopeless" smaller nations like these are one of the reasons why the soccer cup is so popular and successful.

 

[Jablkon]

I definitely think the NHL owners are moving towards not shutting down the NHL season for two weeks for the Olympics. I would say that some North American hockey fans are drinking and cheering during the Olympics, WHC, WJHC and the World Cup even when it's real early.

You do realize that NA hockey fans have to get up at very early hours, at times, to watch the Olympics, WHC and WJHC when they are overseas. So yes there is definitely compromise on the part of fans in North America.

I don't know many US hockey fans that thought they were #1 in the world after the 96' World Cup. What most American Hockey fans were happy about was winning something important to them, especially on Canadian ice, since 1980. Most certainly did not make the US #1.

Well, if you right, it is very frustrating. I dont have a clue why the league which, according to its own boss, never been so well, and is able to have lock-out for entire season, have problem to have a break for fourteen days... This not even frustrating but also shows that owners and probably sole NHL are hungry a....h....s who need just more and more more money and completely lost contact with reallity.

Let's keep it straight, there are just two reasons for having world cup: 1. no income for NHL from olympics, 2. some NA fans would like to see it on small ice. Guess which reason is more important.

I would personally send those owners frome their nice houses to Europe for two months. Maybe they should just smell the real life for a while - to be in a team which has uncomparable budget and even takes care of all youth categories, to be in team where people throw cans on you when suck and kick you ass once you leave the stadium. It would bring them back to earth a maybe they would realize that it is still a sport, not just a bussines.

I think no one can be really surprised that europeans love WHC.

Sorry for being bit mad but I do not know what to say more......

 

[Urbanskog]

Hockey has such a massive drop off in terms of participation, infrastructure and talent after the top 6 or 7 countries that it is pretty easy and fair to have an invitational tournament. Soccer is obviously very different in this respect.

So if we imply that Switzerland is top 7, is there a massive drop to Slovakia?