Softest Leaf Forward Group Since 2000?

[ToneDog]

Lidstrom was the first European captain to win the cup. Before that, people kept saying it was impossible to do it since Europeans weren't hungry enough for the cup and were too soft for it.

There's a first for everything, right?

Of course, let's hope this record is broken while we are around to enjoy it.

 

[SprDaVE]

Of course, let's hope this record is broken while we are around to enjoy it.

Only if they are not soft.

 

[ACC1224]

Yes, great cup final between Calgary and Washington last year.

Constantly showing your ignorance, have at it. I should have known better.

 

[crump]

Hey Curtis Gabriel is available, how about Brett Ritchie? Zac Rinaldo, Dustin Brown or how about we keep Simmonds and Clifford. I don't see any young tough players available that can play up the lineup that would fit into our cap. Top players need to play with some edge. Bottom 6 need to be able to at least forecheck with tenacity. Kampf and Engvall are not big hitters but they are big bodies and can wear down the opposition. I think the additions( Aube-Kubel and Jarnkrok) can do that too. "Nicolas Aube-Kubel is one that is always known to bring the physicality, he is a feisty winger with high energy" "Järnkrok is a quick skater with solid speed and agility; manages to be an effective F1 presence on the forecheck through his skating and tenacity, keeping the feet moving and the pressure on." Not sure about Gaudette, he seems pretty soft . Sure, the 2nd line could use a wrecking ball winger with some offensive upside .Maybe Holl/Kerfoot trade can help make room for that. Bottom line for moving past a first round is better goaltending, and a working PP in the playoffs. We are getting out-goalied constantly. Toughness isn't a big problem in my opinion.

 

[ACC1224]

Only if they are not soft.

Honest question.

Who would be considered the softest team to win a cup?

 

[egd27]

Why do you think that stat matters? What prior teams did has no bearing on the Leafs. No team came back from 0-3 in the MLB playoffs until the Red Sox did it in 2004, no team came back from 3-1 in the NBA until the Cavs did it in 2016.

Exactly. No team ever went 54 years without winning a Stanley Cup until the Leafs did it 2001.

 

[Nineteen67]

Someone just tell me what stat points to toughness? Blocked shots? Hits? Hits taken? PIMs? Scrums started?

Or is it all about feelings?

All of them.
Remember it’s a team game so your disrupters or “scrum starters” (Perry’s, Marchands, etc) will lead in that category and not everyone will engage in that part of the game. If you got one, use him.
On the other hand, everyone needs to bodycheck. Early in a series, do you think it’s a good thing for every player, when the opportunity arises, to hit the D with a good clean hockey check or should they just skate by him?

 

[JT AM da real deal]

This looks like another regular season team to me so far .. other teams have improved significantly in Atlantic and Isles and/or Flyers will likely improve again this year so it will be a tougher regular season but talent still there .. Leafs will need to get out to another great start and i expect they will .. hopefully all 8 playoff teams are decided by XMAS like last year so there is NO fight for playoffs coming down stretch but last year was a strange year .. if Leafs are close to playoffs then they will likely fold again down stretch given culture/makeup of team .. we need a leader who puts team on his back and says follow me boys .. we don't have that guy .. I still expect shanny to change team before summer ends to increase size/speed/toughness and then add at TDL again .. but off to Amalfi and Sicily for a few week break .. heat is crazy hot in mid 40s and warmer with humidity

 

[ACC1224]

This looks like another regular season team to me so far .. other teams have improved significantly in Atlantic and Isles and/or Flyers will likely improve again this year so it will be a tougher regular season but talent still there .. Leafs will need to get out to another great start and i expect they will .. hopefully all 8 playoff teams are decided by XMAS like last year so there is NO fight for playoffs coming down stretch but last year was a strange year .. if Leafs are close to playoffs then they will likely fold again down stretch given culture/makeup of team .. we need a leader who puts team on his back and says follow me boys .. we don't have that guy .. I still expect shanny to change team before summer ends to increase size/speed/toughness and then add at TDL again .. but off to Amalfi and Sicily for a few week break .. heat is crazy hot in mid 40s and warmer with humidity

Nice, enjoy your trip.

 

[ToneDog]

Exactly. No team ever went 54 years without winning a Stanley Cup until the Leafs did it 2001.

55 years in 2022 but who's counting. Nobody is saying rare occurrences don't happen. Let;s just hope it does not take the Leafs as long to win another cup as it did the Cubs.

 

[SprDaVE]

Honest question.

Who would be considered the softest team to win a cup?

How can they be soft if they won the cup? Right? The OP reminiscing about having Colton Orr and Frazer McLaren on the team, the last great tough Leafs team ever... it was so fun to finish last in the league but hey, they were a heck of a tough team.

Avs were vastly superior in toughness how exactly? I think this was asked before? Not sure what the Caps did to deserve the toughness tag either but I assume Tom Wilson is worth a x100 in toughness multiplier.

 

[ToneDog]

This looks like another regular season team to me so far .. other teams have improved significantly in Atlantic and Isles and/or Flyers will likely improve again this year so it will be a tougher regular season but talent still there .. Leafs will need to get out to another great start and i expect they will .. hopefully all 8 playoff teams are decided by XMAS like last year so there is NO fight for playoffs coming down stretch but last year was a strange year .. if Leafs are close to playoffs then they will likely fold again down stretch given culture/makeup of team .. we need a leader who puts team on his back and says follow me boys .. we don't have that guy .. I still expect shanny to change team before summer ends to increase size/speed/toughness and then add at TDL again .. but off to Amalfi and Sicily for a few week break .. heat is crazy hot in mid 40s and warmer with humidity

I'm jealous. Have a great time.

 

[notbias]

Based on the lack of toughness, the coaching issues, the GM issues, the star players not showing up, the bottom 6 not showing up, the goaltending being terrible, and the D being too soft, we would have never won a playoff game.

 

[Primary Assist]

We have to compare it to the rest of the league, which is kind of impossible to do. Most teams don't really have that ultra hard nosed lineup anymore, and that even includes clubs like Boston and Philly. So yeah, the Quinn era Leafs probably beat the current iteration in "toughness" man-for-man, but you could also argue that this roster is vastly more "skilled" than the George Armstrong champs of the 60s. Without accounting for changes in era, culture, and the evolution of the game though then such comparisons are ultimately fruitless

 

[justashadowof]

Only if they are not soft.

It may be projection to think we care about the style of a future hypothetical Toronto Maple Leafs championship team. We just don't think soft teams win championships or if you please hardly ever. Not in hockey, not in football, not in basketball. I'm wondering whether the opposite is actually true: some of us could only enjoy a championship if it ticks all of the right socio-philosophical boxes. Witness the absence of second guessing the free acquisition of an impact player in Evander Kane this past Spring that clearly boosted Edmonton's playoff efforts.

 

[TheRumble]

Imagine ignoring a factual example that runs contrary to an opinion expressed,

The Lindros trade is a contrary opinion? How?

Peter freaking Forsberg was one of the pieces they got back. That's an MVP level player for another MVP level player and then a bunch of pieces on top of that. That's not trading $100 for three $20s and a $10, that's $100 for $100 and two additions $20s. Plus the trade of that magnitude would literally be impossible to pull off in the modern day NHL.

 

[Sypher04]

It may be projection to think we care about the style of a future hypothetical Toronto Maple Leafs championship team. We just don't think soft teams win championships or if you please hardly ever. Not in hockey, not in football, not in basketball. I'm wondering whether the opposite is actually true: some of us could only enjoy a championship if it ticks all of the right socio-philosophical boxes. Witness the absence of second guessing the free acquisition of an impact player in Evander Kane this past Spring that clearly boosted Edmonton's playoff efforts.

Kane is a head case and I’m confident that will prove out once again over time in Edmonton. People liked the player a lot, but it’s reasonable to think the person wasn’t worth the trouble

 

[AvroArrow]

Brian Burke is that you ? This is the most skilled team we've had perhaps ever. Why do we need bottom 6 goons who can't skate or make a play to be successful ?

 

[ACC1224]

Brian Burke is that you ? This is the most skilled team we've had perhaps ever. Why do we need bottom 6 goons who can't skate or make a play to be successful ?

I can't imagine anyone wants that.

 

[Sypher04]

Without fights, it’s a lot more subtle, but we’ve definitely been pushed around in the playoffs.

Maybe slightly so versus Montreal where the whistles were firmly away but definitely not versus Tampa. And even as far as Montreal series went, their physicality wasn’t even in the top 5 reasons we ultimately lost.

 

[justashadowof]

LOL maybe you should have watched this team in in game 5 vs CBJ and game 7 vs Montreal where they were defeated before they stepped on the ice.

Another understated factoid: 3 consecutive series deciding games lost on home ice. Crowd/no crowd is irrelevant. They didn't have to travel, sleep in a strange bed, use visitors' facilities, etc.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

We have players that are close who have ability and toughness. Knies and Douglas could add some much needed toughness and ability. The only other players we could target are Wilson, Crouse, and Jeannot. All three would require overpayment though.

 

[justashadowof]

Brian Burke is that you ? This is the most skilled team we've had perhaps ever. Why do we need bottom 6 goons who can't skate or make a play to be successful ?

That is what is known as a strawman argument. If anything, that is closer to our GM's solution to the team's toughness concerns in Kyle Clifford and the shell of a player Wayne Simmonds has become.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

I can't imagine anyone wants that.

When their brain has to admit how garbage Dubas is at making a bottom 6 they go to a fantasy land where the alternative to Dubas bottom 6'es is a bottom 6 of all goons.

Since I sign up here the main counter to Dubas' bottom 6 getting thrown under bus is that people want to fill up with goons instead but 0 people have said this.

 

[Da Mash]

I think in another 5 years you can post this thread again.

Trend is skill over hack and slash and and as teams get faster forwards from 1-12 there will be less of a role for the grinders.

Team still needs a "cop" to dress during the season and up to the press box come playoffs. Simmonds or other.

I agree but the refs call the game differently in playoffs…crosschecks and interference are much more frequent.

It’s really the only professional sport that does it like this in postseason. Benefits the grinders.

We have witnessed this for a long time. Didn’t Wilson here have a great fast skating team and it was all for nothing because playoff refs called a different game?

The Don Cherry mindset has ruined the game in all honesty.