So what happens if this team is actually bad?

[OttMorrow]

I said to look out for goaltending to be the Achilles Heel of this team...it's not their only issue, but it bit them again last night. This team just can't get it all together on the same night right now. I would say that most of the team played pretty well last night. We lost the latest mostly because Lehtonen was on the wrong end of a goaltending duel. He played good, but not great last night. Kari has not played one "lights out" game this season yet(one like the game Rinne had), nor did he have a alpha male game in the playoffs last year. That makes it about 20 games without stealing us a win by himself. For someone of his pay rate, this is below our expectations.

Put sub-par goaltending behind an abysmal defense, and you're gonna have big problems.

 

[dechire]

sub-par goaltending

Kari had a .960% at EV last night lol. How the **** can anyone suggest he's the reason we lost just because he's not giving us a shutout every night to cover for how **** the team is playing ? You know what other team has great goaltending behind a terrible team ? Buffalo. How's that working out for them ? Carey Price stole like 5 games for Montréal to start the season and as soon as he stopped standing on his head every night they lost horribly. When you're counting on your goaltender to be your best player on the ice every night just to keep you in the game then you have a huge ****ing problem and trading for a new goaltender is literally just going to make you even worse wtf why is that even being suggested ????

 

[OttMorrow]

Kari had a .960% at EV last night lol. How the **** can anyone suggest he's the reason we lost just because he's not giving us a shutout every night to cover for how **** the team is playing ? You know what other team has great goaltending behind a terrible team ? Buffalo. How's that working out for them ? Carey Price stole like 5 games for Montréal to start the season and as soon as he stopped standing on his head every night they lost horribly. When you're counting on your goaltender to be your best player on the ice every night just to keep you in the game then you have a huge ****ing problem and trading for a new goaltender is literally just going to make you even worse wtf why is that even being suggested ????

You can point to any fancy stat you want, but the bottom line is that the PP goals still count towards save percentage and the most important stat in goaltending is wins. He's got 4 so far. He didn't beat the man at the other end of the ice last night...period. He didn't play as well as Rinne. He gave up a goal he'd like to have back, and it cost us. Did he have a bad game...no. As matter of fact he played well....just not quite well enough, and that's the name of the game when it comes to goaltending. Our defense isn't doing him any favors, but he has to do better. Most nights he gives up a soft goal or two and that part is on him, not the D. Oh...and I never suggested trading him at this point...that was someone else.

 

[Satan]

I blame the defense way before I blame Lehtonen for most of these losses, sorry.

 

[dechire]

You can point to any fancy stat you want, but the bottom line is that the PP goals still count towards save percentage and the most important stat in goaltending is wins. He's got 4 so far. He didn't beat the man at the other end of the ice last night...period. He didn't play as well as Rinne. He gave up a goal he'd like to have back, and it cost us. Did he have a bad game...no. As matter of fact he played well....just not quite well enough, and that's the name of the game when it comes to goaltending. Our defense isn't doing him any favors, but he has to do better. Most nights he gives up a soft goal or two and that part is on him, not the D. Oh...and I never suggested trading him at this point...that was someone else.

Pekka Rinne is a top 5 goalie in the league imo. I think Kari is great but he's not going to win the Vezina any time soon and I don't expect that from him either. Kari did enough to keep us in the game. When Jordie fell on his ******* face and gifted Nashville a 1 on 0 in the third Kari saved it. The 3rd goal of the night came after a series of defensive errors. Every single defenseman did at least one extremely stupid thing in the game last night. You're expecting Kari to steal games and yeah that would be nice and we can even say "Wow I wish Kari would stand on his head to save us" but blaming him for losses is ridiculous. He is not the reason we lose. Kari is actually doing his job competently which is more than you can say for 5/6ths of our defense and 3/4 of our forwards. I seriously don't understand why you'd criticize one of the few players that isn't an embarrassment instead of the dozen players that are.

 

[Brand New Stars]

I blame the defense way before I blame Lehtonen for most of these losses, sorry.

At the same time, the defense doesn't let in softies at a scary rate.

 

[Frozen Failure]

At the same time, the defense doesn't let in softies at a scary rate.

The defense (and some forward backcheckers) DO let the opposition take all of those soft shots.

 

[Brand New Stars]

Soft shots shouldn't go in.

 

[Satan]

Soft shots shouldn't go in.

In a perfect world they don't. Unfortunately, all top goalies let in soft shots.

There's a line of defense for a reason, to keep them and all other shots to a minimum and in our case, our defense doesn't limit them at all. We're in the bottom 10 for shots against this season while also being in the bottom 10 for shots for.

The problem isn't hard to find.

 

[Brand New Stars]

Everyone has to admit that Kari lets in more soft shots than top goalies do.

 

[dechire]

Everyone has to admit that Kari lets in more soft shots than top goalies do.

That's because Kari is not a top goalie which I thought everyone already knew. He's in the 10-15 range. He's not a Tuukka Rask but he's not a Cam Ward either. If you're expecting Vezina quality goaltending from Kari then you will always be disappointed just like if you're expecting Goligoski to be a Norris caliber defenseman. Be disappointed in the mistakes but manage your expectations.

 

[TrillMike]

I blame the defense way before I blame Lehtonen for most of these losses, sorry.

Seconded ^

 

[OttMorrow]

That's because Kari is not a top goalie which I thought everyone already knew. He's in the 10-15 range. He's not a Tuukka Rask but he's not a Cam Ward either. If you're expecting Vezina quality goaltending from Kari then you will always be disappointed just like if you're expecting Goligoski to be a Norris caliber defenseman. Be disappointed in the mistakes but manage your expectations.

Management sure seems to think he is elite and he's sure paid like he is elite. It's not like I'm expecting him to get us into the playoffs by himself, but I am expecting for him to steal us games from time to time, especially when they are close one's like last night. I don't think that's unreasonable to expect from a 6 million dollar man or whatever he makes.

 

[OttMorrow]

Pekka Rinne is a top 5 goalie in the league imo.

I'm not sure that's true or not. He's good though.

 

[Johno]

I'm not sure that's true or not. He's good though.

That's laughable. He is most definitely a top 5 goalie in the league. Arguably even top 3.
So most nights he should "beat out" Kari. (who is a borderline top 10 goalie)

If you are expecting Kari (or any goalie for that matter) to stop shots like those, with players screening him, you are going to have a bad time. Especially the third goal, it's borderline impossible to stop without immense amount of luck!

The defenders should f***ing move the screening player out of the way so the goalie can see the shot coming...

 

[Bkennedy*]

You're all on something.

I don't blame the defense for ANY of the *recent* losses.

In our last losses opponents have scored 3, 3, 4, and 2 goals. While we have scored 2, 1, 1, 1.

Those are very reasonable numbers for our defense to be allowing for the most part, need to stay away from trending towards allowing 4. But we have to score some ****ing goals. This is just as much on the offense as defense.


And blaming Kari at all is just insane.

 

[Bkennedy*]

That's laughable. He is most definitely a top 5 goalie in the league. Arguably even top 3.
So most nights he should "beat out" Kari. (who is a borderline top 10 goalie)

If you are expecting Kari (or any, even elite, goalie for that matter) to stop shots like those, with players screening him, you are going to have a bad time. Especially the third goal, it's borderline impossible to stop without immense amount of luck!

The defenders should f***ing move the screening player out of the way so the goalie can see the shot coming...

In the same vein as not blaming Kari, I feel like I have to mention that it doesn't take luck to not give 2 feet of space short side.

 

[OttMorrow]

In the same vein as not blaming Kari, I feel like I have to mention that it doesn't take luck to not give 2 feet of space short side.

Bingo. Thank you, Bkennedy.

 

[Frozen Failure]

You're all on something.

I don't blame the defense for ANY of the *recent* losses.

In our last losses opponents have scored 3, 3, 4, and 2 goals. While we have scored 2, 1, 1, 1.

Those are very reasonable numbers for our defense to be allowing for the most part, need to stay away from trending towards allowing 4. But we have to score some ****ing goals. This is just as much on the offense as defense.

And blaming Kari at all is just insane.

The lack of zone time and success always starts somewhere. Probably our inability to maintain puck control and fight puck battles.

 

[Johno]

yes, that's very generous "2 feet", but within all the scramble and running around it's hard to see the puck when there are four guys screening you. So maybe he had to guess and guessed wrong that the puck went to the middle to Smith which would leave the short side open...

But whatever, that's that, not going to argue over this any more.

 

[dechire]

In the same vein as not blaming Kari, I feel like I have to mention that it doesn't take luck to not give 2 feet of space short side.

See I actually agree with you on that goal but it never would have been a shot if Goligoski, Daley and Fiddler hadn't been doing whatever the **** they were doing instead of clearing the puck away. Kari should have stopped it but it never should have come to that in the first place. When I say we need to blame the defense before Kari it's because Kari shouldn't have to deal with half the **** that he does. He looked bad on that goal but so did the defense and screening Kari while scrambling for the puck is the opposite of what they should be doing.

 

[Stargazer1111]

I have a really bad feeling about this team. It's good I am not a GM, because I would already be looking to blow this thing up.

Hemsky is looking like a total waste of a contract. Is there a possibility of unloading him for a decent dman? I'm sure we won't miss his one assist per month.

 

[Troy McClure]

In the same vein as not blaming Kari, I feel like I have to mention that it doesn't take luck to not give 2 feet of space short side.

That's how Kari plays it. He never hugs the post, which is why he gives up several of those sharp angle goals a season. He cheats a bit away from to post to give him a step on any passes to the slot. At this point, it's not poor positioning. It's what he and Valley have decided to do.

 

[Bkennedy*]

See I actually agree with you on that goal but it never would have been a shot if Goligoski, Daley and Fiddler hadn't been doing whatever the **** they were doing instead of clearing the puck away. Kari should have stopped it but it never should have come to that in the first place. When I say we need to blame the defense before Kari it's because Kari shouldn't have to deal with half the **** that he does. He looked bad on that goal but so did the defense and screening Kari while scrambling for the puck is the opposite of what they should be doing.

I'm not blaming Kari at all. I've thought he's elite for a while, still do. I'm saying that one goal in particular was fairly soft.

 

[Bkennedy*]

That's how Kari plays it. He never hugs the post, which is why he gives up several of those sharp angle goals a season. He cheats a bit away from to post to give him a step on any passes to the slot. At this point, it's not poor positioning. It's what he and Valley have decided to do.

I'll agree with you that he doesn't normally hug the post as much as he honestly SHOULD. But when Kari is on his game he comes out to play that a bit more than is showing there.