So.. Edmonton has to be the favorites coming out of the west, right?

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The Red Line

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would be the order I'd put them in. You never know who shows up, though, so wouldn't totally surprise me to see any of those 4 teams come out of the west.
 

KingBran

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I still put the Avs and Stars ahead of them and on paper I like Vegas more.

MAF / Lehner is going to be tough to beat.
 

Aladyyn

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More cherry picked clips. Really wish I was on my computer so I could go find every game Stone was a minus and post highlights of how he was the direct player at fault for the GA.
What the f*** do you guys WANT? If you can't see that your boys are garbage defensively at this point there's no helping you because you're hopelessly detached from reality.
 
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KlefDown

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What the f*ck do you guys WANT? If you can't see that your boys are garbage defensively at this point there's no helping you because you're hopelessly detached from reality.
ok mr. eichel and reinhart are better than drai and mcdavid

it's me that's hopelessly detached from reality
 

IceNeophyte

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I find it amusing to point at the tandem that has never been beyond Round 2 and has only made the playoffs once as evidence that their team is the best in the West. Because they are in the playoff race, they are now annointed Best in the West.

McDrai are the epitome of one-way players, and they don't have the D behind them to get to the finish line.

You won't find a whole lot of clips with Stone as a minus. You'll find more of him as a puck-stealing beast. He's perennially the takeaways leader. Of course, everyone has bad days.
 

Captain Controversy

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I find it amusing to point at the tandem that has never been beyond Round 2 and has only made the playoffs once as evidence that their team is the best in the West. Because they are in the playoff race, they are now annointed Best in the West.

McDrai are the epitome of one-way players, and they don't have the D behind them to get to the finish line.

You won't find a whole lot of clips with Stone as a minus. You'll find more of him as a puck-stealing beast. He's perennially the takeaways leader. Of course, everyone has bad days.

Klefbom, nurse and larsson are built for the playoffs. I wouldn't worry.
 

Love

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Some people like players who dont bleed goals against

Okay? Not sure what that has to do with McDavid.

Some people like players who are generational, all time greats more than a two way winger.
 

JoeThorntonsRooster

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More cherry picked clips. Really wish I was on my computer so I could go find every game Stone was a minus and post highlights of how he was the direct player at fault for the GA.

So, when I use statistics that include every single second that a player was on the ice, they're worthless because I obviously don't watch the games...

But when I provide examples of what I've seen when watching the games, I'm just cherry picking?
 

Love

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Some of the homer takes on this forum have been insane in the past few days. I’ve read that Shestyorkin deserves the Calder over Hughes and Makar and that it would be a “travesty” if he didn’t win even though he’s only played 10 games. Now I’m reading that someone actually thinks Stone is better than McDavid. Insane.
 
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Kamiccolo

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So, when I use statistics that include every single second that a player was on the ice, they're worthless because I obviously don't watch the games...

But when I provide examples of what I've seen when watching the games, I'm just cherry picking?

You've somehow managed to take my thread from a discussion about the Oilers in the playoffs to a Mark Stone thread. Congrats.
 

John Eichel da GOAT

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LOL no. I wouldnt be surprised if they miss still. AA doesnt move the meter that much.

Defense wins in the playoffs and they are a one line, two player team, that can easily be contained. Even if McDrais is good for 1-2 goals per game, the rest of the roster is that bad, teams can prey on.

Id Still take Vancouver or Vegas over them in their division let alone them not touching any of the Central.
 

IceNeophyte

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Klefbom, nurse and larsson are built for the playoffs. I wouldn't worry.

Klefbom, Nurse, and Larsson have not gotten them INTO the playoffs the last two seasons. Green is a good add. Athanasiou is adding yet another element the team already has--one-dimensional offensive-blindered forward. Stanley Cup champions have five defensemen on the ice most times. Even Ovi played heavy defense in their cup year.
 
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CupsOverCash

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I think they are. The nhl is ready to see McDavid in the finals and think it happens this year.
 

JoeThorntonsRooster

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vegas literally has a worse GAA than Oilers with clearly better goaltending and defense group
clearly your top line winger bleeds goals against

You..you can't be serious here. Right?

The discrepancy in GAA is caused entirely by things that happen when none of these players are on the ice. When they are all on the ice, Vegas allows goals at a far lesser rate than Edmonton.
 

Captain Controversy

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Klefbom, Nurse, and Larsson have not gotten them INTO the playoffs the last two seasons. Green is a good add. Athanasiou is adding yet another element the team already has--one-dimensional offensive-blindered forward. Stanley Cup champions have five defensemen on the ice most times. Even Ovi played heavy defense in their cup year.

Watch the Oilers games this year in the playoffs. You are gonna see lots of hurt of the opposing team when they play nurse, Larsson, kassian, Benning and khaira.
The Golden boys throw their weight around too and it is a beautiful thing to watch.
 

JBear

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Oilers should win 1 round but anything after that is gravy. Unless Koski can be a steady force in net they'll have troubles. I'm not worried about their D as they have decent team defence passing under Tippet. Nurse Larsson Klefbom are fine and this is great experience for Bear. This year is just to set them up for a cup run next year.
 

JoeThorntonsRooster

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Some of the homer takes on this forum have been insane in the past few days. I’ve read that Shestyorkin deserves the Calder over Hughes and Makar and that it would be a “travesty” if he didn’t win even though he’s only played 10 games. Now I’m reading that someone actually thinks Stone is better than McDavid. Insane.

Yeah, Mr. Shark fan in San Jose is a total Mark Stone homer. I'm such a big fan of the guy on Vegas. That's what this is.

In all seriousness, Stone is literally my least favorite player in this discussion. I hate his guts. It's just that, he also happens to be the best player here.
 

KlefDown

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So, when I use statistics that include every single second that a player was on the ice, they're worthless because I obviously don't watch the games...

But when I provide examples of what I've seen when watching the games, I'm just cherry picking?
they're worthless because there is literally no context to raw numbers. saying drai is bad defensively because he's on the ice when the other team scores a goal is stupid. there will be instances where he is the direct cause of a GA but there are other factors at play. Drai has played more 5v5 minutes than any other forward in the NHL. no shit chances are he'll be on the ice when oilers get scored on.

I can provide examples of when he's been elite defensively and you'd say id be cherry picking too
 

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bucks_oil

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I have watched all of these guys play a ton, especially now that they're all in the Pacific. In fact, I was actually pretty skeptical of all of the GAR models that said Stone was the best player in the league, until I watched him against my favorite team, and saw just what an impact on the game that he has.

McDavid and Draisaitl do have a bigger impact at both ends of the ice. It's true. The problem is, their impact on the defensive side of the ice is a major NEGATIVE impact. And while that doesn't I see their terrible defensive play just about every time I watch them. I mean, just look at this defensive effort from both of them, but Drai in particular here:



Of all the players on the ice for this goal, Draisaitl is by far at fault more than the rest, because of his absolutely pathetic effort on the back check. I'm not a fan of using YouTube clips to analyze players, but I'm just showing you an example of what I've seen. I was dumbfounded watching in real time when this happened.

By contrast, ever since Stone came to the Pacific, I haven't seen a single play like this.

I know that for everybody else, common sense says that the guy with a bigger number in the "P" column on NHL.com is the better player. But is that really common sense, or is it just common opinion? Because for me, common sense says that the guy who helps his team score more goals than the other team is the better player.


You won't get much argument from Edmonton fans if your point is that specific game... we had a roasting about it when it happened over a year ago last season and generally agreed... i) that until the two-way game improved we wouldn't advance, ii) our depth wouldn't improve until our stars did and importantly that iii) given our lack of depth, one couldn't rely on McDrai to do every job, 25 mins a night all season long! THAT GAME was really the "checked out" point of our season last year. McDrai had been over relied upon and were defensibly exhausted carrying the team on two sets shoulders.

But that isn't what we are talking about it is it? We are talking about the here and now... and McDrai have played much better this year... taking the team on their shoulders early and low and behold, Holland's depth players have been chipping in as well. All of a sudden our PK (of which McDrai are a minor but important part) is 2nd in the league.

It's ok for teams to rely on complementary individual strengths from time to time. Our team (any team) can actually be successful by sawing-off at EV and dominating the special teams, even, or especially in the playoffs.

Now... where I would agree, is that our team is a "Stone type" .... actually I'd say an "O'Riley type" away from being a true contender. We don't have that elite, power vs power shutdown centerman that can eat up the critical 5v5 minutes when we are holding a lead. But nobody in their right mind would trade a McDrai for that guy.
 
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