So.. Edmonton has to be the favorites coming out of the west, right?

[blankall]

Depth means the whole team. And if you think this year Edmonton has no depth beyond their top 2, you clearly haven't paid any attention.

I have paid attention. Yamamoto and RNH look solid. After that it's pretty bad, possibly the worst in the league.

 

[Northern Avs Fan]

When was the last time the Avs made it past the 2nd round??? All the way back in 2001?

I didn’t say anything about the Avs lol

A lot of talk in here about the Hawks beating the Oilers, I don’t see it.

 

[blankall]

Neither team has a good bottom 6, they’re comparable it’s not gonna be a deciding factor in the series. Also looking at points is a really bad way to decide who’s better, they’re grinders if they were good at scoring they wouldn’t be in the bottom 6.

I actually quite like Chicago's depth. They have a very solid group of kids, and Kane has a lot left in the tank. They obviously had some horrible play at points last year, but I wouldn't count them out. My main point is that Chicago will be a challenge, despite coming into the playoffs in such a poor position in the standings. Kane himself is a huge X factor. When he wants to win, he finds a way.

 

[67Leafs67]

The Oilers should beat the Hawks, but in a best of five series, anything can happen, especially in favour of the team with superior goaltending (Chicago). Still, I don't love Chicago's run & gun style, and possibly the league's worst 5v5 defense, going up against two of the league's very best attacking forwards. Tippett has built a somewhat crude, but effective system that won't make it easy for the Hawks to score at will. Still, a shorter series definitely helps Chicago's case.

After that play-in though...I can't say I love Edmonton's chances. With McDavid plus the new dynamite 2nd line, they of course could win 4 games against any team, but I wouldn't bet on them to be the favourites in the West ahead of much more well built, deep, and balanced teams like St. Louis, Colorado, Dallas, & Vegas.

 

[majormajor]

And how many goals did Neal score from New Years on? (the answer is zero) He got all of his goals playing with McDavid/Draisaitl in the first half the season. So stating that Edmonton's bottom six has X amount of goals and Chicago's has less is straight up disingenuous.

wretched34 did a great job of breaking it down above. The math doesn't lie. Chicago's bottom six is just better. Edmonton's bottom six relied heavily on getting assist from McDavid and/or Draisaitl for their points.

I like Yamamoto and RNH, but don't think either are all that different than depth players you'd find on any team. The big issue for Edmonton is how quickly things fall off after those 2.

By describing Neal as a 4th liner, I was saying he wasn't good. You don't need to tell me that Neal isn't good.

I'm not going to argue about the bottom six, but you said Yamamoto and RNH are the same depth players as you'd find on any team, and that's wildly off the mark. When together with Drai, those two outscore everyone on Chicago not named Kane. They're not depth players, unless you think Toews and Kubalik are depth players.

Over the last 30 games RNH scored 41 pts, that's actually 4th in the league over that span and 4 pts ahead of Kane. He wouldn't score that much without Draisaitl, but who cares, the relevant thing is what he does with him.

 

[blankall]

By describing Neal as a 4th liner, I was saying he wasn't good. You don't need to tell me that Neal isn't good.

I'm not going to argue about the bottom six, but you said Yamamoto and RNH are the same depth players as you'd find on any team, and that's wildly off the mark. When together with Drai, those two outscore everyone on Chicago not named Kane. They're not depth players, unless you think Toews and Kubalik are depth players.

Over the last 30 games RNH scored 41 pts, that's actually 4th in the league over that span and 4 pts ahead of Kane. He wouldn't score that much without Draisaitl, but who cares, the relevant thing is what he does with him.

RNH and Yamamoto both had their numbers inflated by playing with the Art Ross Winner. RNH is a known quantity. He's a 55-70 point forward. Yamamoto is solid too. There both great top 6 guys, but nothing that isn't totally common around the league.

And no RNH is not as good as Toews.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

RNH and Yamamoto both had their numbers inflated by playing with the Art Ross Winner. RNH is a known quantity. He's a 55-70 point forward. Yamamoto is solid too. There both great top 6 guys, but nothing that isn't totally common around the league.

And no RNH is not as good as Toews.

It's crazy. All those years hearing about how Draisaitl is dependent on McDavid and now he doesn't deserve the Hart because of McDavid.

Now people turn around and say that the same guy is inflating RNH and Yamamoto's stats. Where does it end?

 

[majormajor]

RNH and Yamamoto both had their numbers inflated by playing with the Art Ross Winner. RNH is a known quantity. He's a 55-70 point forward. Yamamoto is solid too. There both great top 6 guys, but nothing that isn't totally common around the league.

And no RNH is not as good as Toews.

This isn't a referendum on how good the players would be without Draisaitl, that's irrelevant here.

 

[FerrisRox]

As opposed to the reasonable and balanced takes from Leaf fans?

Toronto Maple Leafs Have the Best Roster, and Will be NHL’s Best Team

That was six months ago! This is what that author is saying today:

No Exaggeration, Toronto Maple Leafs Could be Best Team Ever

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

I have paid attention. Yamamoto and RNH look solid. After that it's pretty bad, possibly the worst in the league.

So now you're saying we have 4 great players and terrible depth. Nice. You don't get it.

 

[34]

9/10 entertainment value
1/10 fact based

Cool man.

 

[Sempiternal]

I think the Oilers got one of the toughest draws playing the Blackhawks. Toews and Kane elevate their game ++ in big games.

 

[CupofOil]

When you're holding out Josh Archibald as "depth" you're pulling at straws. No one considers Archibald the type of depth that results in a Stanley Cup.

Several of the other guys you've listed don't score unless stapled to McDavid, which is kind of the point people are making. The Oilers don't have many forwards that can generate their own offence, when McDavid and Draisaitl aren't gifting it to them.

That being said, the Oilers will be able to roll out two competent scoring lines, which is how they've played all season. Hence why McDavid was getting up to 27 minutes of TOI some games, which is absurd for a forward.

I'd also take Chicago's depth over the Oilers any day: Dach, Strome, Kubalik, DeBrincat, and Nylander has much more potential.

Archibald had 12 goals as a 3rd liner (although a few with McDavid) and was a big part of an elite penalty kill, guys like that are important to have in the playoffs.
Ennis had 14 goals in 61 games, on the Senators who don't have anybody remotely close to as good as McDavid.
Athanasiou had 30 goals just last year.
Yamamoto was a PPG player through 26 games and was a big reason for team turnaround.
RNH of course who was a top 10 scorer in the league on the Draisaitl line.
Neal had 19 goals.
The always underrated Kassian is a potential game changer in the playoffs too.

The Oilers are severely lacking a #3C but the depth is far better than it was to start the season. They have some support now to compliment the big two.
Goaltending is the big advantage for the Hawks. Crawford is far more playoff reliable than Koskinen and Smith. Goaltending and playoff experience are the Hawks advantages.

 

[BlueMed]

Archibald had 12 goals as a 3rd liner (although a few with McDavid) and was a big part of an elite penalty kill, guys like that are important to have in the playoffs.
Ennis had 14 goals in 61 games, on the Senators who don't have anybody remotely close to as good as McDavid.
Athanasiou had 30 goals just last year.
Yamamoto was a PPG player through 26 games and was a big reason for team turnaround.
RNH of course who was a top 10 scorer in the league on the Draisaitl line.
Neal had 19 goals.
The always underrated Kassian is a potential game changer in the playoffs too.

Hey, I believe you.

 

[BKIslandersFan]

How long will HFBoard be down for if Edmonton gets that pick?

 

[thaman8765678]

If Edmonton gets another #1 pick I'm never watching again.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

That was six months ago! This is what that author is saying today:

No Exaggeration, Toronto Maple Leafs Could be Best Team Ever

What the f*** did I just gloss over?

 

[CantHaveTkachev]

If Edmonton gets another #1 pick I'm never watching again.

sweet

 

[Fourier]

It actually can't....as stated above, it's been mathematically proven that the Chicago bottom six is more productive:

Your sense of what is "mathematically proven" is different from mine. That analysis as stated would be far from a proof in the eyes of any competent mathematician.

I'll give you one obvious example of why this is not a proof of the claim your are asserting. That poster's intent is to count only those points scored while not playing with a specified group of players. But it ignores total time played in such a roll. The fact that the Oiler forwards listed played substantial time in the top six means that they also had less opportunity to generate points in a bottom six roll so you potentially have an apples to oranges comparison. To illustrate this with a slightly different example which player would you chose as being the most likely to produce if both were healthy now, the guy who had 8 goals and 21 assists in 82 games played or the guy who had 7 goals and 15 assist in 35 games played. Without the additional data indicating games played the other poster's analysis would give the nod to the former yet I'd say that there is significant reason to chose the latter. Would you disagree?

That said I do not necessarily disagree with the core premise of the argument. Beyond the top 4-5 guys the Hawks do have more pure offensive talent in their forward group and it is certainly likely that a more in-depth analysis would still show better production from the Chicago group. Though my guess is it would be much closer that what was suggested. And frankly the difference has to be huge to make up for the cap in the top 5 if the Oilers best players play fully up to their capabilities. More importantly, there is a lot more to winning than simply the total number of points your bottom six has during a season. Some of the guys in the Oiler's bottom six have not produced a lot but they are significant contributors to the League's second best pk. A guy like Khaira for example played over 100 minutes on the pk with a GA/60 of 2.39 which is insane. And that Chicago group is also much less experienced.

Finally, since we have seen the phrase "anyone who watched the Oilers" …. Well anyone who watched the Oilers this season would also know that the team after January 1 was very different from the team before January 1 and one of the main differences was the play of the bottom six regardless of who was in those slots.

 

[LuGBuG]

Hilarious thread. Can’t wait to see Vegas or the Blues beat the wheels off the Oilers. Then watch them miss playoffs for another few years.

Anytime there is no hockey (lockout, offseason, pandemic) Oiler fans spend the entire time convincing everyone how good they are, then they are disappointed every time. Classic

 

[yegoldboysclub]

The play in series has become a must lose series for both Chicago and Edmonton. I think more than a few teams will be tanking during the play in games, hoping to get the #1 pick, or just getting a better draft position, pretty obvious the players aren't that interested in playing, and I don't blame them

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

RNH and Yamamoto both had their numbers inflated by playing with the Art Ross Winner. RNH is a known quantity. He's a 55-70 point forward. Yamamoto is solid too. There both great top 6 guys, but nothing that isn't totally common around the league.

And no RNH is not as good as Toews.

Lmfao. This is too rich. This is way too rich. You all say drai is just a product of McDavid. But then when you want to falsely rip on other Oilers players, you claim they're a product of Drai.

The internet is good for laughs

 

[Mcnotloilersfan]

Hilarious thread. Can’t wait to see Vegas or the Blues beat the wheels off the Oilers. Then watch them miss playoffs for another few years.

Anytime there is no hockey (lockout, offseason, pandemic) Oiler fans spend the entire time convincing everyone how good they are, then they are disappointed every time. Classic

Did you have an actual relevant point or did you just come here to whine?

 

[McDavidCrushedLarkin]

It's crazy. All those years hearing about how Draisaitl is dependent on McDavid and now he doesn't deserve the Hart because of McDavid.

Now people turn around and say that the same guy is inflating RNH and Yamamoto's stats. Where does it end?

Its pure and unadulterated jealousy. Their best players of course never share the ice and have zero effect on each other. Makes my black little heart sing with joy to hear the cries.

 

[Captain Controversy]

It's crazy. All those years hearing about how Draisaitl is dependent on McDavid and now he doesn't deserve the Hart because of McDavid.

Now people turn around and say that the same guy is inflating RNH and Yamamoto's stats. Where does it end?

The real answer is McDavid and draisaitl are dependant on Kevin Lowe. He knows a thing or two about winning.