Size of D core

[Boxscore]

Get Hamilton and Chara. That should drive up our average height and weight.

For someone who is 6-6, Hamilton doesn't play an overly-physical game, which will frustrate some. But we can use his minutes and top-end ability to run the powerplay.

 

[Superstar]

Overall size is fair. The issue is overall they are too soft. Muzzin and Bogo use their size but aren’t feared. Holl is 6’4” bounty soft while Brodie is amazing with his stick he doesn’t take the body often. None of these guys have a mean streak in them.

As for having small puck moving d in the pipeline that’s the way the game is moving. Faster more mobile. This team is designed to transition with speed and you can’t do that with guys who can’t make a first pass.

From an asset point of view draft best skill players. They tend to have more upside and hold better trade value

That might be the narrative that some people are pushing...has Ryan Ellis ever been the best d man on the Predators? How was our Tyson Barrie experiment last year? It's not like big men can't pass the puck or skate.

Having big d men who could play is generally more effective...Ottawa chose Redden over Chara a long time ago...how did that worked out? The best d men on the Vegas team are Pietroangelo and Theodore..they are not small...Habs' best d man is Petry, and he's not small either...Shea Weber was a great d men not too many years ago, who is also not small...how about Victor Hedman...small? Pelech and Pulock of the Isles are big d men also.

 

[Maplebeasts]

The D wasn't the problem. It was the fact that no one outside of the Nylander line could score a goal

 

[RoadWarrior]

Just saw this tweet
Really interesting look from
@JasonGregor
at the common thread from the last 20 #StanleyCup finalists: Their defensemen averaged 6-foot-2 and 219 pounds.
Lookin at Dubas philosophy of small puck-moving D might not work in the playoffs. I was surprised Reilly was 6'1 and 210 pounds

Reilly ,Holl, Muzzin, Bogosian are all around that 6'2 219 average give or take a couple of big macs lol. Where I see the concern would be the guys Dubas drafted with high picks in Lillgren and Sandin. Both are undersized guys who when it comes to long 4 rounds of playoffs probably won't make it thru due to the physical nature of physical hockey. Mac Hollowel another Dubas pick is a small kid.

Sandin would need to be really sheltered and I don't see him holding up at a top pairing guy at all.

I wouldn't be opposed to moving those guys in deals if you can find just as skilled or close to it and bigger.

Krug and Letang seem to do pretty well in the playoffs.

It's all about how they're utilized. The smaller D men with wheels and brains can succeed but not up against the best forwards on the opposing team. They should be used mostly on the PP with 5 on 5 usage limited to bottom 4 duties.

Liljegren is not undersized anymore. He's bulked up considerably.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Oleksiak isnt that good....Dermott may honestly be better.

But muh size

 

[Notsince67]

Who dosnt love the big D?!

The smallish C?

 

[justashadowof]

Rielly, Muzzin, Brodie, Holl are all solidly built men. Sandin is smallish but filling out and there's no absence of bravery. Dermott is still a bit slight and too frenetic, he hasn't matured into a calmer more measured defender, he still seems a bit like a teenaged defenseman. I'm boldly saying they weren't the problem this playoffs, I can picture them holding their own for multiple rounds even with injuries if the forwards had delivered.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

That might be the narrative that some people are pushing...has Ryan Ellis ever been the best d man on the Predators? How was our Tyson Barrie experiment last year? It's not like big men can't pass the puck or skate.

Having big d men who could play is generally more effective...Ottawa chose Redden over Chara a long time ago...how did that worked out? The best d men on the Vegas team are Pietroangelo and Theodore..they are not small...Habs' best d man is Petry, and he's not small either...Shea Weber was a great d men not too many years ago, who is also not small...how about Victor Hedman...small? Pelech and Pulock of the Isles are big d men also.

Obviously a horrible decision by the Senators but Redden isn't a small Dman.

 

[Superstar]

Obviously a horrible decision by the Senators but Redden isn't a small Dman.

No he wasn't, but he was a finesse puck-moving d man who lacked grit.

 

[horner]

Why would a team trade us a player of the same skill, but larger? Also, was the size of the Leafs defense really an issue these playoffs? Sandin made a few errors, but being 6'2 on those plays wouldn't have mattered.

We never made it to far.

 

[Cobra777]

Mtl D is bigger and mean, nobody can stand infront of Price for more than a couple seconds before getting knocked down, they also make open ice hits and players have to have their head up crossing their blue line.
Yea they are even giving VGK a run and shut down their forwards game 2.
I even though probably goin to get flamed would gladly ice their D core behind our guys, there would be no opponents trying to bang in rebounds on Jack as they would get knocked down instantly and thats a fact.
They also move the puck quite effective and have some big point shots from a couple of them as well.
I Love their D core its solid it has every element from big physical to big shots and one or two that can skate the puck effective as well ex.(Petry). They are so far one of the best at nailing forwards in their own end and stopping a cycle. Most games I have seen forwards from opposing teams are getting knocked down all over the place in their zone cause they are a NASTY bunch.

Imho their D core are the reason why they have progressed in this post season as well as obviously Price.

I would bet that if they had our D core that they would not be doing quite as well

 

[leafsgirl12]

I think a lot of those guys had a couple of inches added lol. I have met Mo he is def not 6 foot 1. Maybe with skates.

I'm 5'6 and I was only a bit above his shoulder which is the same height difference I have with other pro athletes who are 6'1 .

 

[leafsgirl12]

I think a lot of those guys had a couple of inches added lol. I have met Mo he is def not 6 foot 1. Maybe with skates.

I was beside Mo post game in 2014 near the locker room and I'm 5'6 and was just above his shoulder so he is 6'1 .

 

[Superstar]

Mtl D is bigger and mean, nobody can stand infront of Price for more than a couple seconds before getting knocked down, they also make open ice hits and players have to have their head up crossing their blue line.
Yea they are even giving VGK a run and shut down their forwards game 2.
I even though probably goin to get flamed would gladly ice their D core behind our guys, there would be no opponents trying to bang in rebounds on Jack as they would get knocked down instantly and thats a fact.
They also move the puck quite effective and have some big point shots from a couple of them as well.
I Love their D core its solid it has every element from big physical to big shots and one or two that can skate the puck effective as well ex.(Petry). They are so far one of the best at nailing forwards in their own end and stopping a cycle. Most games I have seen forwards from opposing teams are getting knocked down all over the place in their zone cause they are a NASTY bunch.

Imho their D core are the reason why they have progressed in this post season as well as obviously Price.

I would bet that if they had our D core that they would not be doing quite as well

I think these days, there's just too much hype around the small puck moving d men...it's as if big d men somehow can't skate or pass the puck. You can't replace size on the backend, especially big, tough and mean d men who will work you hard along the boards, who do not let opposing players stand comfortably in front of their own net or take liberties on their goalies.

 

[ToneDog]

Oleksiak at 6'7 255 is a Toronto boy. He could be our Shea Weber. Just not sure where he would fit with Rielly, Sandin and Dermott in the mix.

 

[NewEraGM]

If only there were a Toronto born 6'6 #1D that was available in free agency this year... (I know Hamilton isn't crushingly physical, but he can still handle big players better than most can)

He’s probably going to ask for 7M and I don’t see how Toronto can possibly pay for that. That would be 47M in 5 players (nearly 60%)

I don’t think they can pull that off.
Muzzin, Brodie, Reilly all at 5M each. You are now at 62M for 8 players leaving about 20M for 15 players….so an average of 1.3M per player.

you still need to fit 2 goalies, 2-3 more bottom pair Dman, a top line winger, a second line winger, a full 3rd and 4th line….there is no way

 

[Nylander88]

The D wasn't the problem. It was the fact that no one outside of the Nylander line could score a goal

For that reason, I bring back Galchenyuk. It's a ready made line in Galchenyuk-Tavares-Nylander. I thought for the most part with Kerfoot stepping up for Tavares, all three of those individuals (Nylander, Galchenyuk, Kerfoot) showed up to play in the playoffs. Kerfoot is likely Seattle bound

 

[613Leafer]

He’s probably going to ask for 7M and I don’t see how Toronto can possibly pay for that. That would be 47M in 5 players (nearly 60%)

I don’t think they can pull that off.
Muzzin, Brodie, Reilly all at 5M each. You are now at 62M for 8 players leaving about 20M for 15 players….so an average of 1.3M per player.

you still need to fit 2 goalies, 2-3 more bottom pair Dman, a top line winger, a second line winger, a full 3rd and 4th line….there is no way

Move Marner and Rielly (rather than give Rielly a ~2M raise in a year).

You should be able to fit one ~8M dman on your roster. If you can't, that means you have cap problems elsewhere. So fix the cap problems elsewhere.

I'll take Hamilton + the trade returns from Marner/Rielly + extra capspace to help improve the depth up front rather than keep status quo of constantly bargain bin shopping every off season for ~8-10 players who can average a caphit of like 1M.

 

[Nylander88]

He’s probably going to ask for 7M and I don’t see how Toronto can possibly pay for that. That would be 47M in 5 players (nearly 60%)

I don’t think they can pull that off.
Muzzin, Brodie, Reilly all at 5M each. You are now at 62M for 8 players leaving about 20M for 15 players….so an average of 1.3M per player.

you still need to fit 2 goalies, 2-3 more bottom pair Dman, a top line winger, a second line winger, a full 3rd and 4th line….there is no way

For Hamilton to work at all, Rielly would need to be moved. His likely Free Agent landing spot or desired place to re-sign would likely be his hometown of Vancouver. Which could make it appealing for the Canucks to want to deal for him even though he only has a year left on his contract. So maybe trade him to the Canucks for someone like Jake Virtanen or Tanner Pearson (along with a draft pick or two coming our way). You do this of course if you know what Hamilton would sign for, and that he wants to come here. Sign Jamie Oleksiak as well in free agency and then you're looking at
Muzzin-Hamilton
Sandin/Dermott-Brodie
Oleksiak-Holl

I think that'd be a good back-end for actually keeping the puck out of our net.

 

[Cobra777]

I think these days, there's just too much hype around the small puck moving d men...it's as if big d men somehow can't skate or pass the puck. You can't replace size on the backend, especially big, tough and mean d men who will work you hard along the boards, who do not let opposing players stand comfortably in front of their own net or take liberties on their goalies.

THIS

 

[Cobra777]

Oleksiak at 6'7 255 is a Toronto boy. He could be our Shea Weber. Just not sure where he would fit with Rielly, Sandin and Dermott in the mix.

THIS, I would fit him with Muzz, twin pillars of physical lol, also depends who the Kracken take, but boy what an imposing looking player due to the size you mentioned would be just what the doc would order. Forwards would finally have to pay close attention coming down the ice on these two

 

[Thornbury]

I honestly really like our Defense this year.

I hope we bring Bogo back and roll with the same thing next year.

Sandin has got to work on his foot speed though. You cant be small, weak and slow in this league.

Agreed, but I am convinced Sandin can be an effective PP quarterback. I can live with him in a sheltered third pair role with a big strong defensive partner.

 

[mydnyte]

stronger and meaner is what's needed ...size is great, but, only if you use it.

I thought Bogo was going to bring his mean streak, but, it vanished... he played better than I expected, but, i wanted him for his toughness, and the fear factor.
Muzzin's body may not be able to handle the rough stuff anymore, so, I'd sell high on him too.

 

[ToneDog]

stronger and meaner is what's needed ...size is great, but, only if you use it.

I thought Bogo was going to bring his mean streak, but, it vanished... he played better than I expected, but, i wanted him for his toughness, and the fear factor.
Muzzin's body may not be able to handle the rough stuff anymore, so, I'd sell high on him too.

Can you say Oleksiak ?? Move Rielly and Holl and sign Hamilton (expensive) or cheaper Mike Reilly or Vatanen.

Muzzin Hamilton/Reilly/Vatanen
Oleksiak Brodie
Dermy/Sandy Bogo
Lily

 

[ShaneFalco]

I thought Bogo was going to bring his mean streak, but, it vanished

Seems to vanish for some who come to TO - Clifford, Simmonds, Foligno (although he was playing hurt). Muzzin has called the boys out a few times, but they seem unwilling or unable to play a heavier game.