Simple yes or no poll: Do you think we beat the Habs with Tavares?

[Gallagbi]

I agree.

Its surprising the some fans simply can't accept poor cap management, poor player personnel, weak coaching, underperforming players and mistakes and breakdowns that all lead to a 3-1 collapse as valid reasons the team lost. It just seems easier I guess to use Tavares the one player who didn't play essentially to help explain the disappointment & failure, instead of the 20 players that did, and the coach who coached them, and the GM who assembled them.

...or it seems like most are capable of understanding any small improvements in a tight series like this could have changed the outcome. Be it goaltending, coaching, bounces, special teams, finish/converting, or having our captain play.

We should have won without him. That doesn't mean he wouldn't have made the difference

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Not that it should even be an excuse since even without Tavares we still had a more talented roster than the Habs but if it weren't for that freak accident we likely win game 1. The way we came out of the gate, we were firing on all cylinders and then after the injury the team just looked like they weren't in the game anymore. We also lost 3 games by 1 goal, 2 being in OT and with JT in the lineup we likely get one more goal to win one of those 3 games.

In the end its on the rest of the team to show up and get the job done and they didn’t. Habs deserve to be where they are with their efforts and great execution.

 

[Mess]

The team certainly can have all those errors and still have won with Tavares. Voting yes doesn’t suddenly mean that every issue is invalidated.
It doesn’t have to be so political, it’s just a simple yes or no like the title asks. A person shouldn’t have to vote no against their best instincts just because they think the team makeup sucks and the contracts are bad.

How many $11 mil players does it take to change a light bulb or beat the lowest seeded #18 playoff team?

Apparently the number is 3 in Leafs case, according to this thread.

However that is not a guarantee either only speculation, and no way of proving this hypothetical either so the thread has very little value overall merit but to make some fans feel better perhaps. You can't even back up this belief with any past history to show that with JT we advanced like against Boston and CBJ in previous playoff years, because that didn't happen either. We lost those series with JT so it must have been some other reason the Leafs lost those close series, that might be also relevant this year as well as we rule out JT in those examples.

All we do know with 100% confidence and certainly that our Leafs couldn't win without JT because they didn't. You can point out lots of underperforming disappointing players performances, or poor coaching decisions, and giveaways, and bad over the glass delay of game penalties that all did actually cost the Leafs the series, and focus on those because those aren't hypothetical but actual events.

Using injuries as an excuse to help explain bad results, tends to more about providing cover, and refusing to point actual accountability. IMO

 

[Guided by Veseys]

How many $11 mil players does it take to change a light bulb or beat the lowest seeded #18 playoff team?

Apparently the number is 3 in Leafs case, according to this thread.

However that is not a guarantee either only speculation, and no way of proving this hypothetical either so the thread has very little value overall merit but to make some fans feel better perhaps. You can't even back up this belief with any past history to show that with JT we advanced like against Boston and CBJ in previous playoff years, because that didn't happen either. We lost those series with JT so it must have been some other reason the Leafs lost those close series, that might be also relevant this year as well as we rule out JT in those examples.

All we do know with 100% confidence and certainly that our Leafs couldn't win without JT because they didn't. You can point out lots of underperforming disappointing players performances, or poor coaching decisions, and giveaways, and bad over the glass delay of game penalties that all did actually cost the Leafs the series, and focus on those because those aren't hypothetical but actual events.

Using injuries as an excuse to help explain bad results, tends to more about providing cover, and refusing to point actual accountability. IMO

It’s just a fun thread to poll how leafs fans are feeling after that brutal loss. Seems pretty valid just simply as a conversation piece. Pretty typical fare for a fan site. Nonetheless, you don’t feel that the team was better this year than other years? Most people do and that’s why it’s just hard to fully accept the argument that this series was just like the other years. I’d believe that it was the same if I could but I can’t deny this seasons team was deeper and the core was looking more dominant (until the series with Habs and therefore this thread exists). Deep team or not however, there seems to be major issues which drag this team down.

 

[PromisedLand]

The difference is this injury was pretty traumatic and happened right in front of them. There is definitely an emotional and mental factor, while the other injuries you talk about were already known before the series started.

It may not be much different, but it is a difference.

I guess you are saying that they found a way to win 3 games in a row and then all of a sudden had PTSD and then lost 3 in a row?

 

[PromisedLand]

I'm not sure and rather doubtful as well. But, I think its another crutch that a segment of the fanbase will need to make it feel better.

I mean it is more dubas fans that are finding all the excuses in the world or specific players' fans matthews fans or marner fans.

I think most of the fanbase as a whole doesn't see it that way and is rightly disgusted

 

[IPS]

It’s just a fun thread to poll how leafs fans are feeling after that brutal loss. Seems pretty valid just simply as a conversation piece. Pretty typical fare for a fan site. Nonetheless, you don’t feel that the team was better this year than other years? Most people do and that’s why it’s just hard to fully accept the argument that this series was just like the other years. I’d believe that it was the same if I could but I can’t deny this seasons team was deeper and the core was looking more dominant (until the series with Habs and therefore this thread exists). Deep team or not however, there seems to be major issues which drag this team down.

No, not really. I question where they'd have placed in the normal division layout. When all is said and done I don't put much stock at all into their record in a craptacular Canadian division.

 

[Guided by Veseys]

No, not really. I question where they'd have placed in the normal division layout. When all is said and done I don't put much stock at all into their record in a craptacular Canadian division.

Fair enough.
This year at a minimum I think the goaltending was better due to Campbell and the defence was better with Bogo and Brody who replaced Ceci and Barrie (or Zaitsev and Gardner from years preceding). Tavares had declined but the other top three are still climbing to their peak.
Maybe they will completely fail next season and if so hopefully the axe comes down early in the year.

 

[Mess]

It’s just a fun thread to poll how leafs fans are feeling after that brutal loss. Seems pretty valid just simply as a conversation piece. Pretty typical fare for a fan site. Nonetheless, you don’t feel that the team was better this year than other years? Most people do and that’s why it’s just hard to fully accept the argument that this series was just like the other years. I’d believe that it was the same if I could but I can’t deny this seasons team was deeper and the core was looking more dominant (until the series with Habs and therefore this thread exists). Deep team or not however, there seems to be major issues which drag this team down.

I get it as I'm a diehard Leaf fan like you, as it was an embarrassing loss as the heavy favourites, even in a weak all CDN Div format and then choking while up 3-1 in a series where only 30 times in the NHLs 100 history it has occurred and hardly ever is it the vast underdog that is pulling this off.

Last year was also an embarrassing loss with the 3rd highest scoring team and with Tavares we lost to the 3rd lowest in a best of 5, that didn't even qualify this year and since ended up firing their coach..

Last year we couldn't use the Tavares missing excuse, however this year we can hide behind it as its seems to be quite handy as a potential reason we lost again when we were heavily favoured to win. There are tangible and identifiable reasons we lost both series and JT is not the common denominator in both.

The problem I have is if we keep trying to hide behind feel good excuses, rather than accept this team and players for what they are and that they have some serious issues and attempt to fix them ,we're going to be disappointed and embarrassed further again and again by ignoring them as they're not magically going to go away.

Wouldn't it be more productive to try and get to the root of the problem, whether its poor cap management and allocation, weak coaching, underperforming players that thrive during the regular season and the ghost the team in the playoffs etc etc then trying to sweep that under the rug and hide behind missing JT?.

Mark my words as its my belief now that we will be returning to normalcy and back to the Atlantic Div where we will be facing much tougher teams than Montreal in TB, Boston and Florida just for a div playoff spot, and may be in the wild card derby instead and up against Tampa Bay in round #1 that we will all be back here again wondering what went wrong this time around.

 

[HarryLime]

poll results are sad. Montreal earned it.

 

[MR4]

I keep hearing the Leafs choked.
at 3-1 they lost 2 OT games. One OT game we outshot Montreal I believe 12-2.

Small sample size and unfortunate end.
Montreal can shut offenses down.

Game 5&6 on their own could be a sign of the luck in the game - but you can’t deny that there was a mentality on the ice on Game 7 of them already have considered them out of the series. That game is the deciding factor of proof that we choked the series (although every 3-1 comeback in any sport is still considered a choke despite any explanation)

 

[Arthur Morgan]

I voted No
Until they win, I just have a hard time seeing them now Not finding a way to lose like they always do.
Entitled team honestly needs this loss and the fans to turn on them a little bit.
They need to learn which I though they have already but maybe they are just slow learners,
That winning is not easy. You can't take any nights off. You have to bring your best game in game out.
No one is going to just roll over and lose in elimination games.

Maybe Tavares would have pushed us over but shit.... We Should have beat them without Tavares would it really have mattered? another year ended in disappointment. Kadri, Kadri, Muzzin, Tavares..... Next year who will our excuse be?

 

[Racer88]

...or it seems like most are capable of understanding any small improvements in a tight series like this could have changed the outcome. Be it goaltending, coaching, bounces, special teams, finish/converting, or having our captain play.

We should have won without him. That doesn't mean he wouldn't have made the difference

It shouldn’t have even been a tight series. The Habs were something like 18 points behind us. We are paying Matthews and Marner a very high contract to make a series like this not a tight one. If that’s not the case then why are we paying them so high, what is the point.
Some people do not understand that……not saying you but some here do

 

[LeafalCrusader]

This team always finds ways to lose when the pressure hits. I have little doubt they'd lose even with JT in the lineup.

 

[FraumBallard]

We should have had the roster too absorb the loss of one player...

The lightning made the cup without stamkos

we have boys.
lightning have men
unfortunate
direcr your ire at shanahan and wonder boy

 

[Seras]

Nope, Price played incredible against the leafs.

The leafs out chanced and out played the habs, even with Tavares in the lineup it would not have changed the outcome imo

 

[Seras]

we have boys.
lightning have men
unfortunate
direcr your ire at shanahan and wonder boy

Yeah, I hate how Shanahan brought respectability and promise to this franchise, what a bother he is.

I love how in some peoples minds the leafs were just amazing until this scummy Shanahan guy took over, how dare he ruin this amazing franchise that was not at all the laughingstock of the league with no prospects or players worth mentioning...

 

[hotpaws]

Yeah, I hate how Shanahan brought respectability and promise to this franchise, what a bother he is.

I love how in some peoples minds the leafs were just amazing until this scummy Shanahan guy took over, how dare he ruin this amazing franchise that was not at all the laughingstock of the league with no prospects or players worth mentioning...

I agree , Shanny brought respectability and promise then undid all the good he did by hiring Dubas .

 

[Racer88]

I agree , Shanny brought respectability and promise then undid all the good he did by hiring Dubas .

This is so true

 

[Aashir]

All that would happen is nylanders 8 points become 4-5
kerfoots 6 become 2
and Tavares has 4-5 himself. We would still lose and would look for any excuse we could find

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

All that would happen is nylanders 8 points become 4-5
kerfoots 6 become 2
and Tavares has 4-5 himself. We would still lose and would look for any excuse we could find

Good points. I see it that way as well more than I do JT somehow making a huge difference. He made hardly any difference in the last 2 series...why would he all of a sudden become Toews?

 

[Trapper]

I get it as I'm a diehard Leaf fan like you, as it was an embarrassing loss as the heavy favourites, even in a weak all CDN Div format and then choking while up 3-1 in a series where only 30 times in the NHLs 100 history it has occurred and hardly ever is it the vast underdog that is pulling this off.

Last year was also an embarrassing loss with the 3rd highest scoring team and with Tavares we lost to the 3rd lowest in a best of 5, that didn't even qualify this year and since ended up firing their coach..

Last year we couldn't use the Tavares missing excuse, however this year we can hide behind it as its seems to be quite handy as a potential reason we lost again when we were heavily favoured to win. There are tangible and identifiable reasons we lost both series and JT is not the common denominator in both.

The problem I have is if we keep trying to hide behind feel good excuses, rather than accept this team and players for what they are and that they have some serious issues and attempt to fix them ,we're going to be disappointed and embarrassed further again and again by ignoring them as they're not magically going to go away.

Wouldn't it be more productive to try and get to the root of the problem, whether its poor cap management and allocation, weak coaching, underperforming players that thrive during the regular season and the ghost the team in the playoffs etc etc then trying to sweep that under the rug and hide behind missing JT?.

Mark my words as its my belief now that we will be returning to normalcy and back to the Atlantic Div where we will be facing much tougher teams than Montreal in TB, Boston and Florida just for a div playoff spot, and may be in the wild card derby instead and up against Tampa Bay in round #1 that we will all be back here again wondering what went wrong this time around.

It’s too late Mess.
Nothing can be done until the GM is fired.
He bet his career on this salary structure, on this core and his vision of a new NHL “curve”.

It’s like if you based your life’s work on the Earth is flat theory, everyone else is just wrong. The heretics must be silenced.

 

[The Shrike]

With a goalie who posts a SV% of .892 in the three elimination games we'd probably still lose.

 

[Einzakin]

No obviously not. Habs were just the better team, they're in the cup finals

 

[demonslayer]

You're just not going to win a game with a save percentage below .910%. You can't salvage his performances in those final 3 games because they weren't that good. You can play "if" game all you want but what if he just made 1 more save? See what I mean?

Toronto Maple Leafs at Montreal Canadiens Box Score — May 29, 2021 | Hockey-Reference.com

^^Game 6 his save% is .903%, not .935. Do you really believe his weak short side goal to Perry in game 6 was a good goal to give up? Even the OT goal was weak, a shot from the top of the circle with no one blocking his view and it goes in. Give a way or not, he has to make that save. He blew those games, that doesn't mean he should never play again, but as I said, games 2-4 do not override what he did in 5-7. We lost the series, with better goaltending we probably would have won.

And just for completionists sake. Game 1-.933 %(Price .972%) Game 2 - .957 % , Game 3 - .966 % , Game 4 - 1.00 %. You'll notice a trend here


Every year, and every playoff series is different. The Washington Capitals went with Brayden Holtby for 9 years. They routinely got eliminated from the second round and even missed the playoffs at one point . I know what you're going to say, they got past the 1st round, yes that is correct but losing in the second round and in the first , is hardly all that different, you lost, you just played a week longer. It took The Capitals with Holtby 6 years to win a cup . My point in all this is, it takes time to win and it takes a lot of failures before becoming successful . If you don't like the Capitals comparison, go look at St.Louis, they had their troubles getting out of the first round, and similar to Washington, they missed the playoffs and won a cup the following year. Oddly enough, Washington, Pittsburgh, St.Louis and LA have either lost in the first round, or out missed the playoffs entirely since their cup wins