Simple yes or no poll: Do you think we beat the Habs with Tavares?

[justashadowof]

Heck if Matthews had scored 4 goals instead of 1 goal they probably would have won the series. But do not forget that they imploded the summer previously against Columbus with Tavares in the lineup. I would not discount this team having an uncanny ability to not exceed the performance of their playoff opponent.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

23% of people actually voted no? We were up 3-1 without him and should have won anyways. This fanbase gets crazy when they're angry.

 

[IPS]

Tampa made the finals last year without stamkos.

Made the finals? They won the whole damn thing without Stamkos, he played 1 game.

And yes - Isles were 1 win away from the cup finals without their 2nd best forward.

Sickening the perpetual excuses that are made in Leafland.

 

[Menzinger]

Do the Habs get Drouin back too?

If they did it would be an even greater advantage for the Leafs considering he was terrible this season

 

[tmlms13]

Maybe "blew" the series is a better term? Both those OT games they gave the puck away right to a Montreal stick to win the game.

Montreal got a taste of it themselves with that Edmunson turn over.

It was Jake Gardiner esc

 

[All Mod Cons]

No

 

[Stephen23]

Yes we would have. But it's no excuse. Losing a star PPG Center takes away a huge advantage. They can focus their attention on one C, Freeing up the other for lesser competition. However, they still had 3 cracks at winning and failed (granted 2 of which was in OT which is a coin toss), and I think Game 1 was lost after the Tavares injury. The team totally checked out with their minds elsewhere). If they couldn't get past Montreal without Tavares, I don't see them getting past Tampa in Round 3 w/ Tavares. Full props to Montreal though. I felt we were better off against the Jets than the Habs and that the Habs had a better balance/mix of forward types than most in here were giving them credit for.

 

[GordieHoweHatTrick]

I'm not sure Tavares would have made much of a difference. He's been declining for 2 years straight now and I didn't see the bite to his game he displayed in his first playoff series with Toronto.

 

[Mess]

We had Tavares and the 3 Amigo's and we lost to Boston in 2019
We had Tavares and the 3 Amigo's and we lost to Columbus in 2020

So if we had Tavares in 2021 we would have won instead of lost?

Here is the main reason the Leafs lose and are 0-8 in series clinching games over the last 5 years some with and some without JT.

Mitch Marner ........ 8 games 0 goals 2 assists 2 points & Auston Matthews .. 8 games 1 goal 2 assists 3 points

If your best players don't show up when it counts, then its not up to those not in the line-up to push the team over the finish line.

 

[GoBuds14]

Yes, his presence creates big matchup problems. Losing 1 of their top 2 C’s was a killer for Toronto, as having those 2 creates big matchups problems for most teams.

Matthews and Marner underperforming showed me they would have lost to an upper tier team. With Tavares the Leafs would have still won against Montreal. I was more upset about losing Tavares and missing the opportunity of seeing this fully healthy team

 

[Mess]

Tavares is a massive loss my guy, he's not just "one player", he's our captain and the centre of our 1B line.

I'm not saying we're the Lightning either though.

The NYIs made it to game #7 of round #3 and lost 1-0 without their captain Anders Lee, who is their best goal scorer (recorded 100 goals over the course of the last 3 seasons) and is the highest cap hit player at $7 mil AAV, and they also don't have any other $11 mil players still dressed to absorb it.

However what the JT injury did expose is Leafs cap management issues, because when you put all your eggs in one basket of a $11 mil player, when that player is out you suddenly play games with $11 mil less in player salaries/AAV because his replacement is likely a scrub making near league minimum. When you don't top end heavy spend and have 2-3 players using up $11 mil cap then you're better insulated via team depth to absorb a player loss to injury and the gap between him and his replacement a lot more narrow.

Isles deploy a bunch of $5-6 mil players not any $11 mil individual players, and its that team depth of spending cap across many lines of being a deep team with all players chipping in that insulates against just a single injury situation like Leafs did with Tavares.

That holds true also when you have other $11 mil players still playing and they disappear in the series like Matthews 1-4-5 points and Marner 0-4-4 points did when it counts, you can't expect the bottom of your roster making $750k- $1 mil to carry the team and compensate for the high-end salaries, because of a flawed cap management strategy of 4 forwards eating up 1/2 your salary cap. This really got exposed this playoff season both with the players playing and also with those that were injured and out.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Tavares from 2 years ago? Yes.

But 2021 Tavares who paced for 25 goals/70 points over 82? No.

 

[tmlfan98]

If we have a guy making 11M per year taking more puck over glass penalties than scoring ES playoff goals, then yes we still lose with Tavares. Marner is our Ben Simmons, we know what has to be done.

 

[MattMan]

If the team played as if they gave half a turd in the final 3 games, then this hypothetical would be worth thinking about. Rolling over and dying like they did means they don't get any benefit of the doubt

 

[TheGoldenJet]

If they did it would be an even greater advantage for the Leafs considering he was terrible this season

I disagree.

 

[Trapper]

The NYIs made it to game #7 of round #3 and lost 1-0 without their captain Anders Lee, who is their best goal scorer (recorded 100 goals over the course of the last 3 seasons) and is the highest cap hit player at $7 mil AAV, and they also don't have any other $11 mil players still dressed to absorb it.

However what the JT injury did expose is Leafs cap management issues, because when you put all your eggs in one basket of a $11 mil player, when that player is out you suddenly play games with $11 mil less in player salaries/AAV because his replacement is likely a scrub making near league minimum. When you don't top end heavy spend and have 2-3 players using up $11 mil cap then you're better insulated via team depth to absorb a player loss to injury and the gap between him and his replacement a lot more narrow.

Isles deploy a bunch of $5-6 mil players not any $11 mil individual players, and its that team depth of spending cap across many lines of being a deep team with all players chipping in that insulates against just a single injury situation like Leafs did with Tavares.

That holds true also when you have other $11 mil players still playing and they disappear in the series like Matthews 1-4-5 points and Marner 0-4-4 points did when it counts, you can't expect the bottom of your roster making $750k- $1 mil to carry the team and compensate for the high-end salaries, because of a flawed cap management strategy of 4 forwards eating up 1/2 your salary cap. This really got exposed this playoff season both with the players playing and also with those that were injured and out.

One guy gets hurt, one doesn’t perform and you are 22 million in the hole.

Add that to the fact that half the cap is on 4 forwards, you lack those 4/5 million quality players to compensate. Lose Stamkos and you have Palat/Killorn/Johnson/Cirelli/Gourde/Sergechev/etc.

We go down to Engvall/Mich/Galchenyuk/Holl/etc.
Not even close.
We need balance and we need a new core player.

 

[Gallagbi]

One guy gets hurt, one doesn’t perform and you are 22 million in the hole.

Add that to the fact that half the cap is on 4 forwards, you lack those 4/5 million quality players to compensate. Lose Stamkos and you have Palat/Killorn/Johnson/Cirelli/Gourde/Sergechev/etc.

We go down to Engvall/Mich/Galchenyuk/Holl/etc.
Not even close.
We need balance and we need a new core player.

We need our top players to play up to their abilities.

Stamkos went down, their other 3-4 big name guys stepped up. Point, Kucherov and Hedman were all fantastic. Add Vas too.

Tavares goes down for us, Nylander steps up and Marner/Matthews produce like middle 6 forwards. That was the difference, not depth.

 

[hoglund]

The obvious answer is yes. The Leafs lost the series by one game and game one was lost because of Tavares' injury, the team was shaken and lost their focus and they missed the offense of Tavares.

 

[Trapper]

We need our top players to play up to their abilities.

Stamkos went down, their other 3-4 big name guys stepped up. Point, Kucherov and Hedman were all fantastic. Add Vas too.

Tavares goes down for us, Nylander steps up and Marner/Matthews produce like middle 6 forwards. That was the difference, not depth.

If we had some depth, we might have actually had some other guys (besides Spezza) who can score (which we don’t) to get us through a tough time until Tavares returns next round and perhaps Matthews breaks out of his funk.

Marner is not a goal scorer. Seriously a guy making 11 million with zero PP goals on the season and no playoff goals in 2 years + is killing us. Don’t care how many assists he gets regular season. Having 2 5 million guys and you might still be playing.

 

[Gallagbi]

If we had some depth, we might have actually had some other guys (besides Spezza) who can score (which we don’t) to get us through a tough time until Tavares returns next round and perhaps Matthews breaks out of his funk.

Marner is not a goal scorer. Seriously a guy making 11 million with zero PP goals on the season and no playoff goals in 2 years + is killing us. Don’t care how many assists he gets regular season. Having 2 5 million guys and you might still be playing.

He's not a primary goal scorer, but he's good for 20+ a year and should be producing like that in playoffs.

Hyman is also a 25+ goal scorer who didn't convert this year. Galchenyuk produced, we acquired another solid depth piece in Foligno, Kerfoot was solid.

Depth didn't cost us, lack of production from our top line did. I can't recall Point/Kuch combining for 1 goal in any series last year and 1 goal only. Can you?

 

[Trapper]

He's not a primary goal scorer, but he's good for 20+ a year and should be producing like that in playoffs.

Hyman is also a 25+ goal scorer who didn't convert this year. Galchenyuk produced, we acquired another solid depth piece in Foligno, Kerfoot was solid.

Depth didn't cost us, lack of production from our top line did. I can't recall Point/Kuch combining for 1 goal in any series last year and 1 goal only. Can you?

Last year in the playoff round against Columbus, Stamkos injured, I believe Kucherov had 1 goal in the first round. That was in a loss. Point had 4 goals so together they combined for the exact same amount as Matthews/Nylander in the Montreal series.

Depth scored the rest.
Marner hasn’t scored a goal in the playoffs in 2 years.
Tavares out, Marner not a big goal scorer = 22 million = done.
The core needs a different player, who can score, get dirty for around 5/6 mil.
Then a complete 3rd line overhaul. Not guys like Engvall/Mich/etc.

 

[TheScandal89]

Yes, but the biggest question is will this concussion affect his career moving forward now. He's had ample time to recover, which is good but you just never know how a guy will react after a concussion like that. I really hope he can continue to play like he was before the injury.

It was such a shame for such a flukey accident to happen to him of all people, because for the most part, he is very aware of whats going on on the ice. Really reminds me of Bryan Berards eye injury.

 

[Gallagbi]

Last year in the playoff round against Columbus, Stamkos injured, I believe Kucherov had 1 goal in the first round. That was in a loss. Point had 4 goals so together they combined for the exact same amount as Matthews/Nylander in the Montreal series.

Depth scored the rest.

Point and Kuch played together on a regular basis, while Nylander and Matthews did not, correct?

Nylander would be part of that depth in the comparison.

Worth noting the TB - CBJ series went 5 games. Kuch had 7 pts as did Point.

Another way to look at it - TB scored 14 goals in that series. 5 from the top line . We scored 18 - 2 from the top line. I've excluded Palat on that top line from TB (though I'm pretty sure he had big numbers and am just too lazy to separate out his playoff numbers vs. cbj.

 

[Garthinater]

23% of people actually voted no? We were up 3-1 without him and should have won anyways. This fanbase gets crazy when they're angry.

76% actually voted yes?

This fan base is in complete denial.

We lost in 5 to a weaker columbus with Tavares.

We got up 3-1 without jt and still managed to choke.

What about our recent history makes you think we would've won?

 

[Garthinater]

We had Tavares and the 3 Amigo's and we lost to Boston in 2019
We had Tavares and the 3 Amigo's and we lost to Columbus in 2020

So if we had Tavares in 2021 we would have won instead of lost?

Here is the main reason the Leafs lose and are 0-8 in series clinching games over the last 5 years some with and some without JT.

Mitch Marner ........ 8 games 0 goals 2 assists 2 points & Auston Matthews .. 8 games 1 goal 2 assists 3 points

If your best players don't show up when it counts, then its not up to those not in the line-up to push the team over the finish line.

So we've lost the last 2 series with JT but now that we lost him we would've won this time?

Why are so many leaf fans unable to think critically and logically?

I think it comes down to the fact that they can't control their emotions.