Simon Edvinsson

[RedHawkDown]

Lidstrom wasn't a consistent Norris winner because he was great at defense. He won Norris' because he was great at defense while putting up 70pts a year


4th lines and 3rd pairs are full no offense, elite defensive players. It's extremely hard to find a player elite at both, but was easier to find one elite at defense. Maatta has been by far the Wings best pure "defender" since he's been here. But it doesn't matter because he isn't capable of generating offense at a reasonable rate to justify higher deployment

This isn’t true. 4th line and 3rd pairs are just shittier players. If you took Raymond and tasked him with purely shutdown duties without scoring, he would be way better at it than everybody in our bottom 6.

Defense is more systems based than offense, so it’s easier to learn, but it isn’t easy. Good players are usually just better at everything in hockey than bad players; a lot of them just focus on offense because that’s where their creativity shines and because nobody else on the team can do it.

Most 4th liners and 3rd pairings are also shit defensively in addition to being shit offensively. That’s why they mostly play against other 3rd pairings and 4th lines instead of playing against top lines.

Elite defenders who put up minimal offense don’t play on third pairings. Maatta is not an example of that. He doesn’t play higher because he is just a mid player in general, not because he doesn’t generate offense. If he was elite defensively he’d be playing top pair. Examples of that are guys like Slavin, MA Vlasic, Alex Vlasic, Carlo, Faber, etc all of whom are 1st pairing dmen or play at that level on their teams.

 

[RedHawkDown]

I think higher level players choose that yeah, not the ones trying to break into the league. I think Chiarot knows he shouldn't randomly try to rush the puck, or repeatedly shove someone in the upper back while chasing them around the ice. It's just more fun to play that way lol. It's not a coincidence a coach like Torts gets everyone to be elite at defense within a few months

These are professionals man. If Chiarot was good enough to play like Slavin if he just stopped trying to have “fun”, he would do it and make 6.5M a year with an 8 year contract that’s considered a steal instead of 4.5 a year short term that we’ll dump as soon as it’s over.

Everyone knows what they “should” do, the ability to do it at a high level in game and make those split second decisions is where skill and talent comes in. And that applies to defense as much as it does offense.

 

[izlez]

It's amazing that a guy like Wallinder, a smooth skating 6'4 defenseman with offensive ability, could have all his dreams come true tomorrow if only he put in .001% effort into just flipping a switch and being elite at defense, but his response is "Naw. I don't do defense. It's not fun."

 

[Oddbob]

I would argue that Maatta's minutes dropped because the Wings defense got better so they could use him in a more limited role. Again, if he's our best defensive defender, why wouldn't be out on the PK? If he's got some permanent lung issue from pneumonia then he shouldn't be in the lineup.



Every Dman may "know" what they should do, but to be able to do it at game speed is a rare quality.

You think all these guys are choosing not to be good at defense because they get bored? That someone like Cholowski is passing up a regular NHL job because playing defense is too boring? He'd rather stick to offense in the AHL?

All I am saying is he was playing with Hronek and Hronek had a career start, with Maatta playing way more. Then Maatta got pneumonia and ever since then he has not been used in the same role or ice time. Should he be PK, in my opinion yes. Lalonde is the coach though and his usage of players is weird at the best of times. Our blueline has actually gotten worse since then, so his usage has to be related to that. Petry makes far more boneheaded plays and keeps getting too much ice time.

I think higher level players choose that yeah, not the ones trying to break into the league. I think Chiarot knows he shouldn't randomly try to rush the puck, or repeatedly shove someone in the upper back while chasing them around the ice. It's just more fun to play that way lol. It's not a coincidence a coach like Torts gets everyone to be elite at defense within a few months

Who on Philly is elite at defence?

 

[PullHard]

It’s hilarious that that guy cited tortorella and Philly bc the one player on that roster that most anyone would historically cite as a high end two way player is couturier and he’s seen nothing but role reduction and criticism playing for torts

 

[Winger98]

All I am saying is he was playing with Hronek and Hronek had a career start, with Maatta playing way more. Then Maatta got pneumonia and ever since then he has not been used in the same role or ice time. Should he be PK, in my opinion yes. Lalonde is the coach though and his usage of players is weird at the best of times. Our blueline has actually gotten worse since then, so his usage has to be related to that. Petry makes far more boneheaded plays and keeps getting too much ice time.



Who on Philly is elite at defence?

I've seen this mentioned before, and it's always made a bit of sense because Maata hasn't done anything to deserve less ice time, and I don't really see other guys doing much to take it from him. Either way Maata and Petry are both likely walking out the door after this season, so it's not a huge deal. Hoping we see the kids do well and have Wallinder and ASP walking in next year.

 

[schuelma24]

ASP is now up to 5 goals, 8 assists in 13 games and playing 20 plus a night in the SHL. Starting to think he's making the Wings next year..

 

[newfy]

It's hilarious that he does this and it's not the first time. I remember last season he did the same thing "toying" with the guy trying to fight him and he tossed that guy to the ground too. Some around here were saying he "should be more aware" that kind of stuff could get himself hurt

Reinhardt there is 6'1 207lbs so he's no small fish

If he's fighting a legit brute like another Moritz Seider out there I don't think he's gonna be toying around the same way

Thats because what he did last year was stupid and could get him hurt. He had an NHL player swinging at his head and he literally let himself go limp like the guy would stop if he showed he wasn't interested.

Its the NHL, it doesn't need to be a 6'4 brute to put one on your chin and hurt you. They're pro athletes. You get in that situation, you protect yourself. You don't need to go dropping the gloves and teeing off on guys, but that's different than not protecting yourself at all.

Someone 6'1 and 200+ lbs just needs one shot to hurt you bad. He was fine against Reinhardt but against Crookshank was stupid