Silayev, Lindstrom, Catton, Iginla, Parekh, Eiserman

[themilosh]

For reference:

Bolts 1st cup top 9:

Kucherov 5'11 180
Point 5'10 <180
Johnson 5'8 185
Gourde 5'9 <175
Coleman 5'11 <200

Cirelli 6'1 <200
Killorn 6'1 <200
Palat 6' <200
Goodrow 6'2 <210
2nd cup
Remove Johnson, add Stamkos 6'1 <200
Most recent back to back cup champs won with 4-5 top 9 forwards under 6' & only one over 200lbs


*I'm not advocating for Catton, but personally I wouldn't bat an eye at the Habs adding another <6' forward provided he's an impact top 6 guy with elite skill & high compete.

I know you mean well, but this historical "habs are small speedy and skillful" must end.. it just doesnt work when the lineup cant support it.. i get it, there is room for 1 or 2 midgets, and we have that... but no team is "fearing" the rigorous stresses in the playoffs playing the Habs and it has shown.... for the past 30 years.. we took the goaltending can steal games strategy and it worked to an extent, but when that goalie has an off night, we are done..

It's gotta stop.. small/speedy playmakers simply do not win championships. They can help win a division during reg season, but come playoffs, we gotta be mean, heavy, relentless.. we dont need a mcdavid to win, but in the absence of a superstar forward, we have to perform like a machine. Like luquid terminator from T2..

 

[Miller Time]

I know you mean well, but this historical "habs are small speedy and skillful" must end.. it just doesnt work when the lineup cant support it.. i get it, there is room for 1 or 2 midgets, and we have that... but no team is "fearing" the rigorous stresses in the playoffs playing the Habs and it has shown.... for the past 30 years.. we took the goaltending can steal games strategy and it worked to an extent, but when that goalie has an off night, we are done..

I don't know... The issue hasnt been our lack of size up front, it's the lack of skill.

We've had 1 player put up a ppg/80+ pt season in the 2000's.

We've had zero 40goal players in that time.

This, far more than the size of our forwards, is why no teams have "fear" us

It's gotta stop.. small/speedy playmakers simply do not win championships.

So what do you make of Tampa's wins?

They can help win a division during reg season, but come playoffs, we gotta be mean, heavy, relentless.. we dont need a mcdavid to win, but in the absence of a superstar forward, we have to perform like a machine. Like luquid terminator from T2..

Meh. Give me 3-4 elite skill playerd in the top 6 and I don't care how big the are as long as they compete like a CC or Newhook

 

[billy piton]

For reference:

Bolts 1st cup top 9:

Kucherov 5'11 180
Point 5'10 <180
Johnson 5'8 185
Gourde 5'9 <175
Coleman 5'11 <200

Cirelli 6'1 <200
Killorn 6'1 <200
Palat 6' <200
Goodrow 6'2 <210
2nd cup
Remove Johnson, add Stamkos 6'1 <200
Most recent back to back cup champs won with 4-5 top 9 forwards under 6' & only one over 200lbs


*I'm not advocating for Catton, but personally I wouldn't bat an eye at the Habs adding another <6' forward provided he's an impact top 6 guy with elite skill & high compete.

yes, but even tampa, for the most part, used its high draft picks to select bigger players (stamkos, hedman, connolly, koekkoek) and traded smaller drouin for bigger sergachev. there are way more talented smallish players later in the draft, and very, very few big guys with skill. take look at the top 50 scoring list. almost all 6 1 and taller players are selected top 15 or top 20. once in blue moon you get jamie benn, jason robertson or carter verhaeghe later in the draft, but far less likely than kucherov, panarin, point, pavelski, marchand, kaprizov, aho, guentzel, trochek, hagel, marchessault, bratt, debrincat etc, etc.

so, when you already draft high, (if it's close) - draft tall.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Agreed.

I just don't see much evidence of high end skill and have concerns about IQ and vision.......the back injury is also concerning for a player who may need to really lean on his physicality to be effective. There are some shades of Josh Anderson here, both good and bad. He has some Evander Kane upside minus the behavioural issues, maybe even Chris Kreider but there are some red flags that require a closer look.

Lindstrom is an interesting one if we end up picking him. It's hard to overlook that skating/size/compete package but there are concerns. I'll trust the Habs if we take him but he's the 3rd wheel to my targets. Demidov and Iggy are ahead of him on my waive.

One thing I was thinking about last night was how his game compares to Slaf? Previously, I was comparing him to Byfield or E Kane. How many guys his size/skating/shot are there in the NHL?

Trying my best not to devalue Lindstrom. The area that is difficult to project is hunger to improve as the player faces development obstacles. Does he have that hunger?

 

[Habs Halifax]

So put him on the wing.

I'm sure that's where he lands in the NHL. I've played pros/cons fairly with all of the targets. I'm not super low on Lindstrom. I just like what I see with Demidov/Iggy a bit more.

 

[The Last Red]

I don't know... The issue hasnt been our lack of size up front, it's the lack of skill.

We've had 1 player put up a ppg/80+ pt season in the 2000's.

We've had zero 40goal players in that time.

This, far more than the size of our forwards, is why no teams have "fear" us


So what do you make of Tampa's wins?


Meh. Give me 3-4 elite skill playerd in the top 6 and I don't care how big the are as long as they compete like a CC or Newhook

The only sub-six feet tall top six forwards still playing are Trochek and Stankoven. That’s 2 of 24. Sure we’ve had a skill issue up front but teams today are not winning Cups with half of their top six forwards under six feet.

 

[Scintillating10]

One of the great privileges of living in a democracy is the right to be wrong. Some, like me, have made it a virtue.

I decided on Cooley because thought he was safer pick. Figured he was a Clayton Keller type

 

[Habs Halifax]

The only sub-six feet tall top six forwards still playing are Trochek and Stankoven. That’s 2 of 24. Sure we’ve had a skill issue up front but teams today are not winning Cups with half of their top six forwards under six feet.

There is no other way to spin it. Teams that win have a great mix of skill/size/grit. Size/Weight/skating is a huge factor when the games get tight.

Size don't matter anymore is just not an accurate statement.

 

[BLONG7]

I know you mean well, but this historical "habs are small speedy and skillful" must end.. it just doesnt work when the lineup cant support it.. i get it, there is room for 1 or 2 midgets, and we have that... but no team is "fearing" the rigorous stresses in the playoffs playing the Habs and it has shown.... for the past 30 years.. we took the goaltending can steal games strategy and it worked to an extent, but when that goalie has an off night, we are done..

It's gotta stop.. small/speedy playmakers simply do not win championships. They can help win a division during reg season, but come playoffs, we gotta be mean, heavy, relentless.. we dont need a mcdavid to win, but in the absence of a superstar forward, we have to perform like a machine. Like luquid terminator from T2..

Laying it all on the goalie was a disaster waiting to happen, and it did...............
The teams that are left right now in the playoffs, have speed, skill, and some size....it's what is needed.
Also needed are guys who will go through a wall for each other, which is something the Habs are trying to build with some culture and character types.
6 footers, with some weight, 190-210 lbs are great but they have to have speed and skill to make it all work.


Our drafting has been so poor, especially at drafting forwards....we need skill and some size at the forward position, and we need this quickly as we move forward with the rebuild. The expectations are about to get a slight change in course, from the media and fans.

HuGo is on it, but we need to show progression and movement soon.

 

[Miller Time]

The only sub-six feet tall top six forwards still playing are Trochek and Stankoven. That’s 2 of 24. Sure we’ve had a skill issue up front but teams today are not winning Cups with half of their top six forwards under six feet.

Vegas won last year with 3 of their top 6 (4 of 7) at 6' or less... Bigger group than Tampa, who won back to back (& 3 straight finals).

Note that the Tampa mini-dynasty, was built of a top 9 heavy on <6' forwards. let's not pretend the game has fundamentally changed from 2022 to today.


This narrative that "winning cups today" can't be done with several forwards under 6' simply isnt grounded. It's fine to prefer a bigger lineup, it's another to act as if that's a necessity. The data doesn't support it.

My personal preference is that we build a roster with the talent, drive and competitiveness to compete for a cup annually. Nothing I've seen thus far suggests that the size of the forwards we might draft is a good indicator of how impactful they will be.

Catton, Demidov, Helenius or Iginla may well become much better playoff performers than the taller Lindstrom, Sennecke, Greentree or Connelly.

And Celibrini appears to be the cream of the crop, despite standing a 6' today (probably adds an inch or two, but he's not catching Lindstrom).

I hope we get the best forward (or player) left on the board at 5. Period. Couldn't care less about their size.

 

[Sorinth]

I know you mean well, but this historical "habs are small speedy and skillful" must end.. it just doesnt work when the lineup cant support it.. i get it, there is room for 1 or 2 midgets, and we have that... but no team is "fearing" the rigorous stresses in the playoffs playing the Habs and it has shown.... for the past 30 years.. we took the goaltending can steal games strategy and it worked to an extent, but when that goalie has an off night, we are done..

It's gotta stop.. small/speedy playmakers simply do not win championships. They can help win a division during reg season, but come playoffs, we gotta be mean, heavy, relentless.. we dont need a mcdavid to win, but in the absence of a superstar forward, we have to perform like a machine. Like luquid terminator from T2..

Except historically we've never been a highly skilled team. How long has it been since we've had a ppg player let alone a 100+ point player? Our skill level just never matched the skill level of other teams and it had nothing to do with size.

We weren't a small, speedy, skillful team with elite goaltending, we were a small, average to below average skilled team that wasn't particularly speedy outside a few players here and there with elite goaltending.

 

[ChesterNimitz]

I decided on Cooley because thought he was safer pick. Figured he was a Clayton Keller type

Its still very early in the game. You may well end up being right in your initial thoughts.

 

[Habs]

I will add, that "me me me" debacle so wprried about getting credit, is the very same reason Gilbert was a subpar player.. Ego is a career killer in the NHL, and Michkov with his "i wont even interview with ARZ" can kiss it goodbye. The kid is a primedona and that never works in a professional career.. ffs, he wasnt even welcome on SK, kept getting shipped to Sochi on loan..

Regarding Arizona, I bet a lot of kids were hesitant knowing they were bound to move and are a shitshow of a franchise. I don't know any of these stories about Michkov, but he didn't decline coming to Montreal far as I can tell.

Lindros dissed the Nords and still got into the HOF lol. If his talent is as high as they say it is, I doubt Philly cares he didn't want to got to AZ and I think it's a bit exagerrated. Why we freaking out on Dionne ? He was a forgettable player that was never a top talent anyways

 

[LaP]

Vegas won last year with 3 of their top 6 (4 of 7) at 6' or less... Bigger group than Tampa, who won back to back (& 3 straight finals).

Note that the Tampa mini-dynasty, was built of a top 9 heavy on <6' forwards. let's not pretend the game has fundamentally changed from 2022 to today.

The game never changes. The whole "the game has changed thing" is just stupid. It takes decades for the game to change and usually it changes because of technology either on the ice (better skates, sticks, ...) or off the ice (better training facilities, better diet knowledge, ...).

There's trends. During the dead puck era you had some of the best goalies ever and you had some of the best dmen ever and pretty much no young generational forwards. So the defensives were bigger and slower cause they did not have to be fast and skiled. Atm you have almost no great goalie, very few great dmen (although it's changing recently) and probably one of the best poll of young forwards ever. So defensemen have to be able to skate. No more Hall Gill. Slow dmen get easily exposed.

But all those are just trends which are the result of the talent pool in the NHL. Pavel Bure would still flourish in this league today. Raymond Bourque would be one of the best dmen in the league. Hasek would make those goalies look like the AHL players most of them are. And a lot of big slow dmen who struggle to make the NHL right now would be seen as valuable NHL player back in the dead puck era cause they would not have to face McJesus, Pasternak, Kucherov, ...

A manager who takes into consideration trend when making decisions is a pretty bad one. Skills matter. It mattered in 50-60-70-80-90-2k and will still matter 100 years from now. Given the proper equipment and training a skilled player will dominate and help you win games. Then when you start filling holes you can look at trend and what is working or not as depth.

 

[KevSkillz4]

I only see:

Demidov, Lindstrom, Iginla, Sennecke or Leshunov (if he is there).

I would be a happy man with any of them.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I only see:

Demidov, Lindstrom, Iginla, Sennecke or Leshunov (if he is there).

I would be a happy man with any of them.

That's a good list. I've been trying to dig into Lindstrom a bit more. I've been slighty down on him vs the popular ranking but I still like him. Demidov and Iggy are my prime targets and one should be on the board when we pick.

Lindstrom would be small notch below Iggy. Sennecke would be a small notch below Lindstrom but that is close IMO.

I wouldn't take any of the D. I think they are more like very good top 4D vs top pairing studs. But I do like Levshunov more than some others. Tough call to make there though

 

[Miller Time]

The game never changes. The whole "the game has changed thing" is just stupid. It takes decades for the game to change and usually it changes because of technology either on the ice (better skates, sticks, ...) or off the ice (better training facilities, better diet knowledge, ...).

There's trends. During the dead puck era you had some of the best goalies ever and you had some of the best dmen ever and pretty much no young generational forwards. So the defensives were bigger and slower cause they did not have to be fast and skiled. Atm you have almost no great goalie, very few great dmen (although it's changing recently) and probably one of the best poll of young forwards ever. So defensemen have to be able to skate. No more Hall Gill. Slow dmen get easily exposed.

But all those are just trends which are the result of the talent pool in the NHL. Pavel Bure would still flourish in this league today. Raymond Bourque would be one of the best dmen in the league. Hasek would make those goalies look like the AHL players most of them are. And a lot of big slow dmen who struggle to make the NHL right now would be seen as valuable NHL player back in the dead puck era cause they would not have to face McJesus, Pasternak, Kucherov, ...

A manager who takes into consideration trend when making decisions is a pretty bad one. Skills matter. It mattered in 50-60-70-80-90-2k and will still matter 100 years from now. Given the proper equipment and training a skilled player will dominate and help you win games. Then when you start filling holes you can look at trend and what is working or not as depth.

Amen

 

[LaP]

The only sub-six feet tall top six forwards still playing are Trochek and Stankoven. That’s 2 of 24. Sure we’ve had a skill issue up front but teams today are not winning Cups with half of their top six forwards under six feet.

But the only top 6 we have under 6 is Caufield and Suzuki and Suzuki is like almost 6 which for a center is not an issue. I mean we can argue all day long if 5'11 is small but personally i don't think it is if you are a skilled center with a good defense game.

Slaf 6'3
Dach 6'4
Caufield 5'8
Suzuki 5'11

None of the other players are sure to make it in our top 6 once we are erady to make a push. Newhook could very well end up being a 3rd line guy. The kid we will add this summer will likely be 6. Only Demidov, Catton and Helnius are under 6 and i would be surprised if we draft one of those guys.

 

[Habssince89]

Suzuki is not small, and there has never been an issue with him being overpowered reg season or playoffs

 

[Deebs]

Suzuki is not small, and there has never been an issue with him being overpowered reg season or playoffs

THICC NICK

 

[Habnot]

Vegas won last year with 3 of their top 6 (4 of 7) at 6' or less... Bigger group than Tampa, who won back to back (& 3 straight finals).

I see what you did there....you added 6'. I don't think this qualifies - no one has ever mentioned a 6' forward as being small.

Vegas (aside from Kessel who only played 4 games in the playoffs) - had only one forward listed less than 6' - and that was Marcheseault - that from every account plays bigger that 5'09".

 

[LaP]

I see what you did there....you added 6'. I don't think this qualifies - no one has ever mentioned a 6' forward as being small.

Vegas (aside from Kessel who only played 4 games in the playoffs) - had only one forward listed less than 6' - and that was Marcheseault - that from every account plays bigger that 5'09".

5'11 is not small either. Usually small start at 5'10 and less. One must not forget that heights are rounded, A 5'11 player might very well be 5'11 ¼ and a 6' player might be 5'11 ¾. There's just half an inch of difference between the two. I would not consider Suzuki as small personally. Caufield definitely is. We need to add another big body for sure and ideally get rid of Gallagher.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

From here on in, anyone who mentions Catton as our #5 pick will join the lollipop guild. The Habs are no longer going to be pushed around come playoffs.. this obsession with "skill and speed" but size doesnt matter must end... we have CC, and minime Hutson... thats it, they are the stankhoven(s) to Dallas' monster lineup. There is no more room for sub 6'0 players.

Im not knocking Catton, im sure he will have a Skillsuccessful career, but he just doesnt fit in with our current makeup.

Skill and commitment to get better will always trump size. Catton is an elite play driver, passing on him for a bigger, less competitive, less skilled player would be a huge mistake. The obsession with size is ridiculous.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

If ppl think an inch is a difference maker they need a new passion. We’re not talking about a 5 foot 7 guy here.

I know you mean well, but this historical "habs are small speedy and skillful" must end.. it just doesnt work when the lineup cant support it.. i get it, there is room for 1 or 2 midgets, and we have that... but no team is "fearing" the rigorous stresses in the playoffs playing the Habs and it has shown.... for the past 30 years.. we took the goaltending can steal games strategy and it worked to an extent, but when that goalie has an off night, we are done..

It's gotta stop.. small/speedy playmakers simply do not win championships. They can help win a division during reg season, but come playoffs, we gotta be mean, heavy, relentless.. we dont need a mcdavid to win, but in the absence of a superstar forward, we have to perform like a machine. Like luquid terminator from T2..

This post comes off as all knowing and couldn’t be anymore untrue.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

The game never changes. The whole "the game has changed thing" is just stupid. It takes decades for the game to change and usually it changes because of technology either on the ice (better skates, sticks, ...) or off the ice (better training facilities, better diet knowledge, ...).

There's trends. During the dead puck era you had some of the best goalies ever and you had some of the best dmen ever and pretty much no young generational forwards. So the defensives were bigger and slower cause they did not have to be fast and skiled. Atm you have almost no great goalie, very few great dmen (although it's changing recently) and probably one of the best poll of young forwards ever. So defensemen have to be able to skate. No more Hall Gill. Slow dmen get easily exposed.

But all those are just trends which are the result of the talent pool in the NHL. Pavel Bure would still flourish in this league today. Raymond Bourque would be one of the best dmen in the league. Hasek would make those goalies look like the AHL players most of them are. And a lot of big slow dmen who struggle to make the NHL right now would be seen as valuable NHL player back in the dead puck era cause they would not have to face McJesus, Pasternak, Kucherov, ...

A manager who takes into consideration trend when making decisions is a pretty bad one. Skills matter. It mattered in 50-60-70-80-90-2k and will still matter 100 years from now. Given the proper equipment and training a skilled player will dominate and help you win games. Then when you start filling holes you can look at trend and what is working or not as depth.

100% this. I would add that skill along with commitment/desire. Plenty of skilled players that were lacking in commitment and desire who go on to be underwhelming and compared to their skillset, but without skill, nothing else matters.