TSN: Siegel: Leafs stand to benefit from new CBA

[Leafsman]

Like the Franson deal?

There was no cash involved??? It is completely different scenario

 

[Sam Slick*]

I guess it's a good thing hockey is played and won on the ice not on paper where hype, over hype and a general disrespect of rosters cloud opinions.

I get what your saying but this team is so much better then when Burke first took over almost at every facet of the organization it's not even funny... As much as we love to hate on the Leafs because of the results the truth is this team really just needs a fix in one spot and that's in goal.

Fix the goaltending and you will fix the Leafs to start and see the results of just how much better this team is than it's record last year suggest. We care too much about individual star players as fans and what we believe the impact of having them on the team is totally wrong. Star players impact on winning is the last thing needed, there impact is that they provide entertainment to the game more than anything else... make no mistake winning starts with quality goaltending and a strong TEAM GAME in executing it game in and game out... Yzerman learned that from Bowman, Brett Hull the floater learned that the hard way from Ken Hitchcock... fans on the other hand well the word "fans" is short form for fanatics sort of tells us how irrational we are.

I agree. Its hard to hear people be so pessimistic based on the past. We are better, everywhere. Does that mean we are done? Not by a long shot. But we are better. All one has to do is look at the numbers of everyone Burke got rid of. Plus, we are much younger by 3 or 4 yeas on average.

 

[The Apologist]

You expect Teams to give away a major piece just so another Team can buy a player out?

Finger was in the Minors and didn't make anywhere close to Dipietro's salary

Money is nothing when it's someone else's. I believe MLSE likes their money.

Not a chance a deal like that happens, which is why Burke had to throw in a superstar like Lebda to get Franson from Nashville. It's also why MLSe ensured that Lombardi was healthy and fully ready to play before approving the deal.

I believe that teams that need to cut money will, an if it means improving our chances MLSE will spend.

 

[The Apologist]

There was no cash involved??? It is completely different scenario

See Lombardi. Plenty of cash involved.

 

[ACC1224]

Not a chance a deal like that happens, which is why Burke had to throw in a superstar like Lebda to get Franson from Nashville. It's also why MLSe ensured that Lombardi was healthy and fully ready to play before approving the deal.

I believe that teams that need to cut money will, an if it means improving our chances MLSE will spend.

Maybe you're not familiar with Dipietro's contract?

 

[The Apologist]

Look at how the NHL responded to the Luongo/Kovalchuk/etc... deals. They do not like people circumventing the intent of the CBA. It is strictly prohibited to trade hockey assets for money. Basically that is what your doing. Trading cap space for picks/prospects is at least an asset for an asset!

Is an amnesty buyout not an asset?

 

[Ari91]

I haven't seen or heard anything yet that would indicate this to be the case.

And are they not allowed to trade cap space now as well?

I believe that the league proposed trading cap space with a seasonal maximum. I don't recall the PA being against it so I think it got buried under the conversation regarding all of the issues both sides couldn't agree on. I would take a guess that it will be part of the new CBA.

 

[The Apologist]

Maybe you're not familiar with Dipietro's contract?

I am very familiar with it. I believe it has eight years left.
I also believe this would not happen without something big coming our way.
Dipietro is also an example. There are other possibilities. The point remains that the possibility does exist for Burke to take advantage if this and that he has shown in the past that MLSE will use cash to acquire assets.

 

[ULF_55]

Apparently, you can trade cap space.
All teams will get amnesty buy-outs, including teams like the Flyers, Rangers, Canadiens, et cetera.
Retirement does not eliminate the cap hit.
The signing team is not responsible for the retirement portion of the contract if the player is traded, but they are responsible for the cap avoidance they had while a member of their team.

All teams have the same rights.

We really need a copy of the final CBA when they are finished writing it.

 

[The Apologist]

Apparently, you can trade cap space.
All teams will get amnesty buy-outs, including teams like the Flyers, Rangers, Canadiens, et cetera.
Retirement does not eliminate the cap hit.
The signing team is not responsible for the retirement portion of the contract if the player is traded, but they are responsible for the cap avoidance they had while a member of their team.

All teams have the same rights.

We really need a copy of the final CBA when they are finished writing it.

Agreed, but how many have the financial ability to buy these out?

 

[ACC1224]

I am very familiar with it. I believe it has eight years left.
I also believe this would not happen without something big coming our way.
Dipietro is also an example. There are other possibilities. The point remains that the possibility does exist for Burke to take advantage if this and that he has shown in the past that MLSE will use cash to acquire assets.

I wouldn't hold your breath for something big to come.

 

[Mess]

I am very familiar with it. I believe it has eight years left.
I also believe this would not happen without something big coming our way.
Dipietro is also an example. There are other possibilities. The point remains that the possibility does exist for Burke to take advantage if this and that he has shown in the past that MLSE will use cash to acquire assets.

Like the Franson/Lombardi deal?

Not sure one would consider that taking advantage or getting taken advantage of in that situation.. Leafs still owe the Preds a 4th round pick for taking all that cash off their hands and getting little value to help their own team in the process.

Lets hope Burke stays away from more of these type deals in the future even in the CBA rules allow them.

 

[ULF_55]

Agreed, but how many have the financial ability to buy these out?

1/3 of the teams were making money before the lock-out, so I'll go with that.

 

[The Apologist]

1/3 of the teams were making money before the lock-out, so I'll go with that.

Fair enough.

 

[The Apologist]

Like the Franson/Lombardi deal?

Not sure one would consider that taking advantage or getting taken advantage of in that situation.. Leafs still owe the Preds a 4th round pick for taking all that cash off their hands and getting little value to help their own team in the process.

Lets hope Burke stays away from more of these type deals in the future even in the CBA rules allow them.

I would say Franson holds much more value than a 4th, wouldn't you? Cash is cash, don't really care.

 

[The Apologist]

I wouldn't hold your breath for something big to come.

Never do.

 

[Leafsman]

Is an amnesty buyout not an asset?

You make a good point!! It does burn an amnesty buyout. I could see an arguement there. I feel it is a grey area and we know Burke's stance on those. Though as you said Burke has used cap space as a trade asset.

I was honestly with ya when I first heard of it and that was the first thought that popped in my head. I just could see that pissing off some league execs and Burke treads very lightly. Don;t get me wrong I wish he would do it but I am not sold he would.

I still think that the two buyouts shoudl come off our books if he doesn;t use it to buy out Komi. Depending on how Komi plays this year he could theoretically be a trade asset next year at the TD. I rather eliminate teh Tucker/Armstrong cap hits and trade Komi for a pick. Though your strategy woudl be the best case scenario

Edit: It also isn;t just an advantage for the richer team. The poor team does get a seriously bad contract off the book without having to cough up the cash.

 

[The Apologist]

You make a good point!! It does burn an amnesty buyout. I could see an arguement there. I feel it is a grey area and we know Burke's stance on those. Though as you said Burke has used cap space as a trade asset.

I was honestly with ya when I first heard of it and that was the first thought that popped in my head. I just could see that pissing off some league execs and Burke treads very lightly. Don;t get me wrong I wish he would do it but I am not sold he would.

I still think that the two buyouts shoudl come off our books if he doesn;t use it to buy out Komi. Depending on how Komi plays this year he could theoretically be a trade asset next year at the TD. I rather eliminate teh Tucker/Armstrong cap hits and trade Komi for a pick. Though your strategy woudl be the best case scenario

I guess I don't see it as a cap circumvention. I don't see the Islanders being able to afford it, so they are trading a player they can't afford and a pick/ prospect whichever for cap relief, just like any other deal.

If Burke can't work his magic, sure, use it on Tucker and Army or Komi, just seems like a waste. All three are gone after 2014.

 

[Leafsman]

If Burke can't work his magic, sure, use it on Tucker and Army or Komi, just seems like a waste. All three are gone after 2014.

I doubt the buyouts do come off the books as they were a previous buyout, I am just stating that they should. If we have noone to buyout because we already did it seems rather unfair.

 

[Mowerman]

There was no cash involved??? It is completely different scenario

That was purely a money deal.

 

[Mess]

I would say Franson holds much more value than a 4th, wouldn't you? Cash is cash, don't really care.

Franson was 7th defensman spare part on a 25th overall placed team and a healthy scratch for 1/2 of last season.

How much value that holds is in the eye of the beholder.. James Reimer, Matt Frattin or Korbian Holzer are examples of former Leaf 4th round picks, does Franson have more value to the team then any similar 4th round picks?

While money is money, not only did Lombardi cost the Leafs $7 mil contract they bought, but he lead the Leafs in the worst +/- at -19 last year and perhaps you care because that is one of the reason Leafs finished 5th last overall in the standings, by what effect he had negatively on the team by playing.

His addition also cost players like Kadri demotions to the AHL, because he occupied their roster spot instead, as a trickle down effect. Perhaps you care about that ?

So taking on bad contract(s) is not always a good idea nor is it advantages to your team as this deal has proven for the Leafs.

 

[Leafsman]

That was purely a money deal.

A cap space deal. Not trading straight up for cash!

 

[The Apologist]

I doubt the buyouts do come off the books as they were a previous buyout, I am just stating that they should. If we have noone to buyout because we already did it seems rather unfair.

We'll have to wait and see the actual writing, but a boy can dream.

 

[Razz]

Franson was 7th defensman spare part on a 25th overall placed team and a healthy scratch for 1/2 of last season.

I've never understood this logic. It's as simplistic as saying that there are 210 defensemen in the NHL (7x30) and since the Leafs finished 25th in the League Franson is the 175th best D man in the NHL (7x25).

The truth is Franson is an average D man who did not fit on the team very well last year, but could be effective on other teams (as he was in Nashville) in the right situation.

 

[Mowerman]

A cap space deal. Not trading straight up for cash!

Worthless pedantry.