TSN: Siegel: Leafs stand to benefit from new CBA

[crump]

Also, the fact that the team that originally signed the deal are partly responsible for the money to the player after they retire could open the market wider for someone like Luongo. His contract no longer an albatross for the team acquiring him.

 

[Warden of the North]

Also, the fact that the team that originally signed the deal are responsible for the money to the player after they retire could open the market wider for someone like Luongo. His contract no longer an albatross for the team acquiring him.

In some ways it is. He could actually choose to keep playing even at a poor level. The ability to bury contracts no longer exists so the acquiring team would be stuck with him if he doesnt want to retire.

Long term deals served a purpose at a minimum level of risk for wealthy teams under the old CBA. Bettman warned teams not to do this. The new CBA hit them hard.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Making the playoffs means you are a mediocre team, winning the Cup is very different.

Mediocre team won the Stanley Cup last year as an 8th seed, but I catch yer driff.

 

[Drew75]

That's what leafs nation has resorted to.
It's pathetic. A whole new low.

Brian Burke has now "succeeded" in the eyes of leaf fans when he simply doesn't "fail".
Not "failing" is the new "success".

"The leafs are only ELEVENTH worst in salary cap going into next season. It's better than being 5th last. Or dead last.
GOOD JOB BURKIE!!!!"

A new low, not just in leaf history, but maybe in human history.

This is a classic example of how the "realists" look at half a story and guess the ending

I'm not saying Burke is perfect, but this is one case where he's done a good job. Only the Yotes (who are terminally poor) and Sens (who are doing a similar rebuild to the Leafs) are in a better cap position going into 2013/14. Do other teams have more space right now on capgeek? sure ... but look at the players they have to resign with that space - when all is said and done, and they have resigned their 3 - 5 in house guys (vs. 1 for us) they will be behind the Leafs on the cap front.

It's called the "whole story"...

 

[ULF_55]

Most GMs arent dragged through the mud when they dont sign these deals. Fans (including a fair number on this board) and the media have shredded Burke apart for not signing these deals.

The panic and wailing is going to be delicious as more and more people start to realize just what their GMs have done. Its already starting on the Canucks board

If people just analyzed the data without getting heated up about things they'd see how very similar and how small the margin is between most teams and GM's.

If you looked at the Kings, they have 2 retirement deals, both created by the Flyers. I think only 12 teams actually created these deals, so that means 18 teams, including the Leafs, have GM's who didn't get involved.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

This Siegel guy is such a hommer. The Leafs are in no better position than most of the other teams if you take into account the quality of the players they have under contract and their prospects. You don't build a winner on cap space alone. From my perspective the Leafs are in a very mediocre position. Sure if they can land a #1C, #1D and a #1G they can contend, but how likely is that really?

 

[Beleafer4]

To the degree needed to be top 10 in GA? I doubt it. He'll help there, but a goalie is needed no question.

No I mean GF will drop. Believe it or not, we still need more higher end forwards

 

[The CyNick]

The new CBA has no impact (positive or negative) for the Leafs.

Still have the same problem, no goalie, no #1 centre, and no elite prospects that are ready to step in. Its literally been the same thing since Burke started, and he's done exactly nothing to fix the problem.

People here do the same thing, look at the FA list and say "guy X will sign here". But why would anyone sign here? Teams can offer the same money, and its not like we have an up and coming team that would attract high ticket FA's.

I dont know where the team would be with a guy like Luongo. Maybe we make the playoffs, maybe not. But we're not a Stanley Cup contender with this group. And there's no reason to think guys will come here to turn us into a Stanley Cup contender.

We're in this limbo of being a best case 7th place team, and worse case 15th place team in the conference.

 

[onebighockeyfan]

The new CBA has no impact (positive or negative) for the Leafs.

Still have the same problem, no goalie, no #1 centre, and no elite prospects that are ready to step in. Its literally been the same thing since Burke started, and he's done exactly nothing to fix the problem.

People here do the same thing, look at the FA list and say "guy X will sign here". But why would anyone sign here? Teams can offer the same money, and its not like we have an up and coming team that would attract high ticket FA's.

I dont know where the team would be with a guy like Luongo. Maybe we make the playoffs, maybe not. But we're not a Stanley Cup contender with this group. And there's no reason to think guys will come here to turn us into a Stanley Cup contender.

We're in this limbo of being a best case 7th place team, and worse case 15th place team in the conference.

Nice post. I agree with you 100%.

 

[dimi78]

The new CBA has no impact (positive or negative) for the Leafs.

Still have the same problem, no goalie, no #1 centre, and no elite prospects that are ready to step in. Its literally been the same thing since Burke started, and he's done exactly nothing to fix the problem.

People here do the same thing, look at the FA list and say "guy X will sign here". But why would anyone sign here? Teams can offer the same money, and its not like we have an up and coming team that would attract high ticket FA's.

I dont know where the team would be with a guy like Luongo. Maybe we make the playoffs, maybe not. But we're not a Stanley Cup contender with this group. And there's no reason to think guys will come here to turn us into a Stanley Cup contender.


We're in this limbo of being a best case 7th place team, and worse case 15th place team in the conference.

I guess it's a good thing hockey is played and won on the ice not on paper where hype, over hype and a general disrespect of rosters cloud opinions.

I get what your saying but this team is so much better then when Burke first took over almost at every facet of the organization it's not even funny... As much as we love to hate on the Leafs because of the results the truth is this team really just needs a fix in one spot and that's in goal.

Fix the goaltending and you will fix the Leafs to start and see the results of just how much better this team is than it's record last year suggest. We care too much about individual star players as fans and what we believe the impact of having them on the team is totally wrong. Star players impact on winning is the last thing needed, there impact is that they provide entertainment to the game more than anything else... make no mistake winning starts with quality goaltending and a strong TEAM GAME in executing it game in and game out... Yzerman learned that from Bowman, Brett Hull the floater learned that the hard way from Ken Hitchcock... fans on the other hand well the word "fans" is short form for fanatics sort of tells us how irrational we are.

 

[4evaBlue]

I know one thing, when Burke came to town 4 years ago, if I scanned this lineup and you told me it was a Burke built team. I wouldn't have believed you. One of the Softest teams in the NHL.

It's probably killing Burke when he scans this roster, perhaps he finally played it right with the new CBA and resisting those contracts.

I really see some major moves in the offing, I still believe in the man, and I do think we will be seeing a Burke type team in the near future. For one he got rid of a coach that wasn't a Burke type coach, it's just beginning. Will see how it unfolds.

I believe the problem is two-fold. One, he was mostly acquiring players for Ronnie's run-and-gun, not for a more zone-pressure hard forechecking team/system.

The other is, grit seems to come at a very high premium in today's NHL. Some of the contracts those types of players got on July 1st were borderline Pejorative Slured. Burke's decided to get a lot of his grit for the future via draft picks and as prospect projects, but it will take time to see what we have in those players.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

I guess it's a good thing hockey is played and won on the ice not on paper where hype, over hype and a general disrespect of rosters cloud opinions.

I get what your saying but this team is so much better then when Burke first took over almost at every facet of the organization it's not even funny... As much as we love to hate on the Leafs because of the results the truth is this team really just needs a fix in one spot and that's in goal.

Fix the goaltending and you will fix the Leafs to start and see the results of just how much better this team is than it's record last year suggest. We care too much about individual star players as fans and what we believe the impact of having them on the team is totally wrong. Star players impact on winning is the last thing needed, there impact is that they provide entertainment to the game more than anything else... make no mistake winning starts with quality goaltending and a strong TEAM GAME in executing it game in and game out... Yzerman learned that from Bowman, Brett Hull the floater learned that the hard way from Ken Hitchcock... fans on the other hand well the word "fans" is short form for fanatics sort of tells us how irrational we are.

The team that Burke inherited had abysmal goaltending... yet still finished higher in the standings than Burke's team last year.

So blaming all of this primarily on goaltending is simply a scapegoat.

 

[Yosho]

Am I the only one who thinks Burke planned this? He knew the CBA was going to be expiring and you get bet your bottom dollar he had a pretty good idea of what the owners were going to want coming out of the CBA. He prepared this team for the backlash of yet another CBA and now instead of being one of those teams that will fail to benefit from the new CBA like last lock-out.. The Leafs are more then likely going to gain from this CBA and Burke looks that much smarter.

Absolutely. I've been saying this all along.

Especially with the new retirement rule.

 

[Leafsman]

Sorry to repost this but it got lost and went unanswered.

If each team gets 2 amnesty buyouts and say Komi has a decent season and can be useful for the last year of his contract. That means we have no need for the buyout yet have 2 on the books for next year. Should we not be allowed to drop those of the books and recover the cap space??

 

[onebighockeyfan]

This is a classic example of how the "realists" look at half a story and guess the ending

I'm not saying Burke is perfect, but this is one case where he's done a good job. Only the Yotes (who are terminally poor) and Sens (who are doing a similar rebuild to the Leafs) are in a better cap position going into 2013/14. Do other teams have more space right now on capgeek? sure ... but look at the players they have to resign with that space - when all is said and done, and they have resigned their 3 - 5 in house guys (vs. 1 for us) they will be behind the Leafs on the cap front.

It's called the "whole story"...

I'm not sure the Leafs are in that great a position in 2013/14. Sure they have cap space but 10 players need to be signed. There's no #1C, no #1G and no #1D...

 

[The Apologist]

Sorry to repost this but it got lost and went unanswered.

If each team gets 2 amnesty buyouts and say Komi has a decent season and can be useful for the last year of his contract. That means we have no need for the buyout yet have 2 on the books for next year. Should we not be allowed to drop those of the books and recover the cap space??

Could also be an incentive to deal with a team that may either need to buy someone out but has used theirs or even cannot afford to buy them out real mOney wise. Maybe we take on a Dipietro and use our buyout on him, if something else is coming out way? Realistically, I see only one buyout option on our team and he only has a year left anyway, so maybe Burke has another card to bargain with here.

 

[The Apologist]

I'm not sure the Leafs are in that great a position in 2013/14. Sure they have cap space but 10 players need to be signed. There's no #1C, no #1G and no #1D...

Perhaps we could us some of this cap space to address some of those needs?

 

[Leafsman]

Could also be an incentive to deal with a team that may either need to buy someone out but has used theirs or even cannot afford to buy them out real mOney wise. Maybe we take on a Dipietro and use our buyout on him, if something else is coming out way?

That was the first thing that I thought of when I heard that. Take on a few bad contracts and buy them out but if we thought of that then so did Bettman/Daly and I'm sure they'd be penalized as it is basically trading for cash. If it is not against the rules then it is a great strategy.

If it is against the rules (and we know how much of a stickler Burke is for following the letter of the law) I think the 2 buyout cap hits on our books should be eliminated.

 

[ACC1224]

Could also be an incentive to deal with a team that may either need to buy someone out but has used theirs or even cannot afford to buy them out real mOney wise. Maybe we take on a Dipietro and use our buyout on him, if something else is coming out way?

No Owner will throw away that much money for a pick or minor return.

 

[The Apologist]

That was the first thing that I thought of when I heard that. Take on a few bad contracts and buy them out but if we thought of that then so did Bettman/Daly and I'm sure they'd be penalized as it is basically trading for cash. If it is not against the rules then it is a great strategy.

If it is against the rules (and we know how much of a stickler Burke is for following the letter of the law) I think the 2 buyout cap hits on our books should be eliminated.

I haven't seen or heard anything yet that would indicate this to be the case.

And are they not allowed to trade cap space now as well?

 

[Leafsman]

No Owner will throw away that much money for a pick or minor return.

That is true. For the deal to be worth it to MLSE it woudl have to be a very good return and I doubt Bettman/DAly let it fly. Basically your buying a 1st rounder/top prospect. I doubt Burke would do it as he is too damn ethical!!

 

[The Apologist]

No Owner will throw away that much money for a pick or minor return.

Who said minor? And it's MLSE. Money is nothing. See Finger.

 

[The Apologist]

That is true. For the deal to be worth it to MLSE it woudl have to be a very good return and I doubt Bettman/DAly let it fly. Basically your buying a 1st rounder/top prospect. I doubt Burke would do it as he is too damn ethical!!

Like the Franson deal?

 

[ACC1224]

Who said minor? And it's MLSE. Money is nothing. See Finger.

You expect Teams to give away a major piece just so another Team can buy a player out?

Finger was in the Minors and didn't make anywhere close to Dipietro's salary

Money is nothing when it's someone else's. I believe MLSE likes their money.

 

[Leafsman]

I haven't seen or heard anything yet that would indicate this to be the case.

And are they not allowed to trade cap space now as well?

Look at how the NHL responded to the Luongo/Kovalchuk/etc... deals. They do not like people circumventing the intent of the CBA. It is strictly prohibited to trade hockey assets for money. Basically that is what your doing. Trading cap space for picks/prospects is at least an asset for an asset!