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Sidney Crosby Top 5 player of all time

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bombers15 said:
Considering a huge chunk of people believe McDavid is already better (he did outscore Sid, after all), I think it's at least close.

Like I said, I still give the edge to Crosby. But AINEC is thrown out all too often. It is at least a little bit debatable - hence, close (not in careers, but in current level).
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I'm all for putting Crosby up in the top 10 but to put him close to the top 5 of all time I just can't see when other then debatable one season he's never dominated the league.
Just like last regular season. I can still say he's the best but how can AINEC be used when he can't even beat McDavid for the art Ross and probably the hart. To me a top 5 guy is like Mario. Can miss 10 games and still no doubt he will sweep the awards
 
Crosby will NEVER be ahead of Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux. Stop the madness. Please.
 
I feel pretty confident putting sid as the best player ever, aside from the big 3. So 4th best all time. 5th at worst.
 
CN8 said:
I'm all for putting Crosby up in the top 10 but to put him close to the top 5 of all time I just can't see when other then debatable one season he's never dominated the league.
Just like last regular season. I can still say he's the best but how can AINEC be used when he can't even beat McDavid for the art Ross and probably the hart. To me a top 5 guy is like Mario. Can miss 10 games and still no doubt he will sweep the awards
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What? He dominated 06-07 and 13-14. Along with 10-11(just got hurt,healthy he blows everone out the water in every stat) the shortened 2013 season he easily dominated, missed the last month of the season, still was top 5 in points and wouldve crushed martin st louis in points if he had stayed healthy. From 2010-2015. He lead the league in PPG. If healthy he wins 4 Harts And art rosses.

Crosby had the same amount of points as the hart winner despite missing 12 games in 2013. And he STILL almost won the hart. Ovi and stlouis should hand over their awards to sid that season. Corey perry should also give his hart trophy to sid in 2011 lol.
 
Crosby is the best of his era... he isn't better than Gretzky, Orr or Lemieux and never will be... He probably won't surpass Howe.. he may overtake Messier...

Guys like Lemieux and Gretzky were ridiculous when you watched them live.. crosby is amazing but he isn't light years ahead of everyone else... talent wise...
 
edog37 said:
Again, name another player who on his level during this era? Ovechkin might have stats, but can't get it done on the big stage. Toews (only other Captain to have 3 Cups) gets it done on the big stage, but doesn't have the stats, plus is less talented.

Thornton has played 7 years longer than Crosby, so not surprising he's ahead. Sid has also played about half the games Thornton has so it we adjust for that, Sid would have over 1200 assists right now....
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Same time frame. Crosby .82 apg to Thornton's .80.

Crosby can't hold Ovi's jock when it comes to goal scoring.
 
Bluefan75 said:
He's "not led in goals or assists" by being second in goals during that time in 150 fewer games, and third in assists, in 150 fewer games. He's second to possibly the greatest goal scorer of all time, while winning two goal scoring titles himself. And he's 8 points shy of the guy with, again, 150 fewer games.

Give him even a point a game for those games, and his totals blow everyone out of the water except for goals. The guy has dominated.

This is sounding more and more like the Hart trophy voting: every other player gets evaluated against the league, whereas Crosby is evaluated against the expectations.
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You're the guys saying he's a top 5 of all time. I'm saying he's very, very good.

No, he hasn't dominated the competition. He's the best by most measures but not overwhelmingly so.

McDavid will blow Crosby away when everything is said and done. He's got a real chance to be a top fiver.
 
madinsomniac said:
Crosby is the best of his era... he isn't better than Gretzky, Orr or Lemieux and never will be... He probably won't surpass Howe.. he may overtake Messier...

Guys like Lemieux and Gretzky were ridiculous when you watched them live.. crosby is amazing but he isn't light years ahead of everyone else... talent wise...
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His production + individual and team accolades relative to others in his era would seem to suggest otherwise. How many players in history can make a claim to best player in the world almost consistently for a decade or more? Less than a handful.
 
Cyclones Rock said:
Same time frame. Crosby .82 apg to Thornton's .80.

Crosby can't hold Ovi's jock when it comes to goal scoring.
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Give it time. As Ovechkin continues to decline, it looks like Crosby may have another decade of solid production in him.

Then again, he could get clocked and it is all over next season. But it is fun to speculate.
 
Cyclones Rock said:
Same time frame. Crosby .82 apg to Thornton's .80.

Crosby can't hold Ovi's jock when it comes to goal scoring.
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He more than certainly could. The Penguins franchise is better than that though. They won't forgo the team as a whole in order to boost one player for marketing purposes.
 
jigglysquishy said:
This doesn't hold up in other sports.

LeBron is dominating at a level arguably never seen before in basketball.

Jon Jones is arguably the greatest fighter of all time.

Similar things can be said of Tom Brady or Messi.

If other sports can have all time great players in the modern era, why can't hockey?
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The number of hockey players from different country increased a lot.

And hockey, as opposed to other sports, has seen a huge improvement in the quality of a specific position : goaltending. Awful goaltending brings huge point totals.

I don't think any other position has improved more than goaltending in hockey over the last 30 years in any sport.
 
Dakine879 said:
Wiki:

Messier is considered one of the greatest NHL players of all time.[2] He is second on the all-time career lists for playoff points (295) and regular season games played (1756), and is third for regular season points (1887). He is a six-time Stanley Cup champion—five with the Oilers and one with the Rangers—and is the only player to captain two different professional teams to championships.
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You could make a case that he was never the best player on any of his teams.

Crosby is absolutely #5. The only competition he has is Rocket and Hull. Maybe Jagr.
 
pensandcaps said:
What? He dominated 06-07 and 13-14. Along with 10-11(just got hurt,healthy he blows everone out the water in every stat) the shortened 2013 season he easily dominated, missed the last month of the season, still was top 5 in points and wouldve crushed martin st louis in points if he had stayed healthy. From 2010-2015. He lead the league in PPG. If healthy he wins 4 Harts And art rosses.

Crosby had the same amount of points as the hart winner despite missing 12 games in 2013. And he STILL almost won the hart. Ovi and stlouis should hand over their awards to sid that season. Corey perry should also give his hart trophy to sid in 2011 lol.
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I think all the "ifs" included in this post kinda proves my point. I have no problem seeing Crosby finishing up at 5 but when all the excuses are needed to shoehorn him in there that's what separates the top 4. While Lemieux could miss 20 games and still win scoring titles Crosby has had 8 seasons of 75 or more games played and only 2 harts and Rosses. I can give him credit as firmly being number 5 but there still being a fair gap from the big 4.
I will also say who knows though he's got time left to prove me wrong
 
fly4apuckguy said:
Give it time. As Ovechkin continues to decline, it looks like Crosby may have another decade of solid production in him.

Then again, he could get clocked and it is all over next season. But it is fun to speculate.
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Want to just say that Ovi can't carry Sid's jock when it comes to overall play. #87 is clearly the superior player.

One of the things looming on the horizon for Crosby is his contract. He signed before the new CBA and it was front end loaded. While his contract has 8 years to run, the last 3 years of it only pays him $3 million per season. I'm going to guess that he calls it quits after the 2021-22 season. Something which could change this is that the current NHL CBA expires at the same time and there could be something done about contracts signed prior to the most recent CBA.

https://capfriendly.com/players/sidney-crosby
 
No one that comes after the 2000s will ever be as good as those that preceded them, you know, until Edmonton wins the Cup 3x and Connor McDavid is anointed as the 2nd best of all time behind Gretzky since he also plays in a Canadian franchise.

Just because Wayne says Howe is the best of all-time doesn't make it so, and I'd argue Sid is better than Howe already, let alone if Sid plays into his 40s.
 
Cyclones Rock said:
Want to just say that Ovi can't carry Sid's jock when it comes to overall play. #87 is clearly the superior player.

One of the things looming on the horizon for Crosby is his contract. He signed before the new CBA and it was front end loaded. While his contract has 8 years to run, the last 3 years of it only pays him $3 million per season. I'm going to guess that he calls it quits after the 2021-22 season. Something which could change this is that the current NHL CBA expires at the same time and there could be something done about contracts signed prior to the most recent CBA.

https://capfriendly.com/players/sidney-crosby
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By all accounts, the guy just loves the game and has a compete level that not too many people in the world could comprehend. I could easily see him playing for another decade.
 
NJD28 said:
You put the guy No. 77 in all-time points above the guy who is No. 9? LMAO.
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Crosby has 600 points to go and is 29. Sakic is done, forever, and played in an era when average goals/game was still in the high 3s vs. never breaking 3 in Crosby's career.

In Sakic's best season, Mario beat him by 41 points.
 
jigglysquishy said:
This doesn't hold up in other sports.

LeBron is dominating at a level arguably never seen before in basketball.

Jon Jones is arguably the greatest fighter of all time.

Similar things can be said of Tom Brady or Messi.

If other sports can have all time great players in the modern era, why can't hockey?
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I actually think that is the problem. We just want this to be the case more than it is. That player will come, heck we might be lucky and it is McDavid. But in the mean time we pump up players and try to identify them that way. I think we just don't have that caliber of superstar right now. It is just that simple.

Ovechkin is an incredible goal scorer, but I just am not sure we have a top 10 of all-time player and if we do that guy should be bumped out of the top 10 in the next 30 years I would hope.

You're not always witnessing the next great player or having them on the same level.
 
Zilo44 said:
The number of hockey players from different country increased a lot.

And hockey, as opposed to other sports, has seen a huge improvement in the quality of a specific position : goaltending. Awful goaltending brings huge point totals.

I don't think any other position has improved more than goaltending in hockey over the last 30 years in any sport.
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NFL Quarterbacks and NHL Goalies have developed a lot in terms of great, good and average being almost all the teams now. Anymore you have five teams that really have terrible options it seems, that used to be half the league in both sports.:laugh:
 
Cyclones Rock said:
Same time frame. Crosby .82 apg to Thornton's .80.

Crosby can't hold Ovi's jock when it comes to goal scoring.
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Yes he could a d what have OVs goals brought him besides never winning a gold at the OG, no Stanley Cups, no WCH, not making it past the 2nd round
 
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